What's your unpopular NASCAR opinion?

Discussion in 'NASCAR chat' started by AuzGrams, Oct 6, 2019.

  1. kkfan91

    kkfan91 Taking a 10-200

    A shorter season be stupid, if we are going to do that race 3 times a week and have a 60 race season like the 60s
    AuzGrams likes this.
  2. Hotrod

    Hotrod Team Owner

    I am ready for 2 hr time limit races.

    (mainly influenced by F1)
  3. Greg

    Greg 2014 RF YAHOO CHAMP Your leader

  4. Bob

    Bob Assistant Car Chief of Brake Fluid Dynamics

    1. Pocono running back to back the same weekend is a bad idea, and signals the loss of a race within the next however many (few) years.
    2. The Glen should get that race.
    3. The burnout < the Polish victory lap.
    4. Fuel mileage races are cool.
    5. All in all it's still a helluva lot of fun.

    Also for the N. Wilkesboro crowd I posted a video in the "Nascar stuff to talk about" thread you might want to watch and digest. It was posted on YT just a day or two ago.
  5. Greg

    Greg 2014 RF YAHOO CHAMP Your leader

    Big tracks with big pit lanes should open the pits during a caution for all cars in a single lap. On the next lap the pace car heads to the pits, and the green drops.
    Speedbowl14 likes this.
  6. Greg

    Greg 2014 RF YAHOO CHAMP Your leader

    Rovalation 10:9 All tracks 1.5 miles and larger with two dates must run one of them on a Roval.
    Larsonfan1995 likes this.
  7. LewTheShoe

    LewTheShoe Team Owner

    Confirmation bias run amok, IMO.

    Coincidentally, data analytics guru David Smith posted an assessment of Truex's career performance in The Athletic last week. Strong PEER performance in the early years, when driving second rate cars, and trending upward across the years as many top drivers do. Couple that with top shelf cars for the last five years and you get consistent elite performance. Dynamite passing stats (which are always adjusted for car speed and running position to make the stats meaningful for driver assessment). Dynamite restart stats too. Average crash frequencies. A single vulnerability... setups that are tilted toward long run speed, thus not optimum for races that play out with a short run to the checkers.

    BTW, you seem to have forgotten - again - that "the current package" has existed only since last February. I just don't get how that could be used to disparage Truex's five continuous years of elite performance. Actually I do get it... confirmation bias.
    SeventyGTX, Joker, DaBiff1618 and 3 others like this.
  8. Greg

    Greg 2014 RF YAHOO CHAMP Your leader

    Truax does not make as many pit road errors as Kyle or Hamlin, or errors in general. It just seems like Kyle gets a great pit stop more often to get the lead late in a race. Truax does it more on the track, imo.
    At Furniture Row or JGR he is just faster.
    LewTheShoe likes this.
  9. Ventisca

    Ventisca Team Owner

    This could be the year that one of the 1-Time Cup Champs separate themselves from the others.

    Joey robbed NASCAR fans of that last year with his glorious late run at Homestead. Hamlin might do the same this year. 2 Cup Championships beats 1 -- except for NASCAR nerds. Present company excepted. :)
  10. Team Penske

    Team Penske Team Owner

    Everything is taken care of. JJ was the last Chevy champion for at least 5 yrs.
  11. Turtle84

    Turtle84 gained a step

    Definitely not aiming to inflate any of KB's stuff. I would have considered Truex my champion if he had lost at Homestead in 2017. That was more of what I was hinting at, than suggesting a shorter season. Although, I used to be of that opinion for ratings reasons of having the playoffs in the summer time, I think I would not enjoy the longer off season or less races anymore.
    Team Penske likes this.
  12. Clutch

    Clutch Team Owner

    They should run more races in New Zealand.
  13. AuzGrams

    AuzGrams Team Owner

    I agree. I think it should be 36 races, however they should do a doubleheader at a place like Richmond in addition to Pocono and a weeknight race at Gateway so the season can end in mid to late October
  14. RacerrecaR

    RacerrecaR Orange cone

    1. Fuel mileage races are great.
    2. Cautions after stages end ruin strategy/flow of race.
    3. Side-by-side racing is not exciting; passing is.
    4. I wish every race went caution-free.
    5. Pole winner should be awarded a bonus points.
    6. The playoffs are great but point system is poorly executed all-around. Winner should be awarded more points.
    7. Double points for "crown jewel" races.
    8. Maximum 1 car per team with a salary cap, plus revenue sharing which includes team sponsorship dollars but excludes merchandise sales. Any excess revenue goes into a pool that is evenly distributed among all full-time teams who have qualified for every race in a season.
    9. No charter system, no provisionals.
    10. BOYS (and girls) HAVE AT IT.
    JohnHill likes this.
  15. Team Penske

    Team Penske Team Owner

    and every kid gets a trophy for showing up. No team's profits should be taken away
    to assist those who can't compete.
    You forgot to add "Tires and gas under green flag stops only."
  16. sdj

    sdj Just a race fan

    Absolutely correct! :punkrocke
  17. SeventyGTX

    SeventyGTX Team Owner

    Drivers are over-rated. If they don't have a great car under them or some luck, they can't win. A perfect car makes a good driver look like Superman.
    Turtle84 and jaqua19 like this.
  18. jaqua19

    jaqua19 Team Owner

    Nah, I just don't think he is THAT good, with or without creating my own support. My biased rationalization is pointless, sure. I never saw him as that much more talented than Bowyer. He was out performed by teammates in second rate equipment. Package aside, I just don't think he's good. I just don't. And that's okay.

    Let me ask you this, of the champions from2000s and 2010s...

    Jeff Gordon
    Tony Stewart
    Matt Kenseth
    Kurt Busch
    Jimmie Johnson
    Brad Keselowski
    Kevin Harvick
    Kyle Busch
    Joey Logano

    Who is Truex better than?
    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
  19. Charlie Spencer

    Charlie Spencer Short tracks and road courses rule.

    Anything putting Jr.'s brain at further risk will definitely be unpopular.
    Mike Crayne likes this.
  20. Charlie Spencer

    Charlie Spencer Short tracks and road courses rule.

    Amendment: and if they don't already have a roval configuration, they have two years to build one or lose the second date.
    Greg likes this.
  21. Charlie Spencer

    Charlie Spencer Short tracks and road courses rule.

    The entire Xfinity series doesn't make as many pit road errors as Hamlin.
    jws926 and Greg like this.
  22. Charlie Spencer

    Charlie Spencer Short tracks and road courses rule.

    A good driver can do more with a great car than a great driver can do with a good car.
  23. Charlie Spencer

    Charlie Spencer Short tracks and road courses rule.

    Charlie Spencer posts way too many comments in a row, and he whines about having to wait 15 seconds between them.
    sdj, 2 Sweet, jws926 and 1 other person like this.
  24. Johnny G

    Johnny G Team Owner

    Logano , Kurt Busch and Matt Kenseth for sure . Equal to Keselowski.
  25. Turtle84

    Turtle84 gained a step

    I am starting to miss group qualifying :)
    Charlie Spencer likes this.
  26. Kiante

    Kiante Team Owner

    No sir.

    I like groups for road courses, but all ovals should strictly be single car runs.

    I liked the driver adjustable track bars, adding another challenge for the drivers. I think that about as controversial as I can get...
    AuzGrams and Turtle84 like this.
  27. jws926

    jws926 I need to think of something new for here

    Group qualifying was to watch till it turned into the shitshow, happy to have single car runs back though.
  28. gnomesayin

    gnomesayin Team Owner

    It's not a question of okay or not okay. You're making bold categorical claims on a discussion forum that are heavy on hunches and light on evidence, and they are being challenged. @LewTheShoe is attempted to refute them with data, which you are sidestepping. More glaringly, you keep ignoring his point about your "package" assertion. The low downforce packages from 2016-2018 and the current high downforce package of 2019 are vastly different, and reward different driving skill sets. Truex has unquestionably been among the two or three most accomplished drivers under both.

    What gives? Are you using the wrong term? Do you mean the Gen 7 car itself?
    LewTheShoe likes this.
  29. jaqua19

    jaqua19 Team Owner

    Gen 6 car then, yes. Is this not the unpopular opinion thread? I understand his points, but I do not need to provide evidence because it's my opinion. Him being out performed by Montoya and Bowyer for me is hard to overlook. I also find it hard to ignore that his success is during a 4 year time span, when drivers are consistently putting up 27+ top 10 seasons. Prior to that, it happened twice in over 15 years. But I tend to stay away from statistics in sports when it comes to proving a point, I tend to disagree with the use of more advanced analytics to support a claim in sports due to the methodology, so I don't put that much thought into it, and will even gloss past the 27+ top 10 thing.

    Working in research and statistics in the past, I can say through my own experience and education that, believe it or not, pointing to statistics that refute, OR prove a stance (which is what Lew, fans, and myself as well have all done) would actually be considered a confirmation biased methodology in research and statistics,..I distinctly remember sorting through research studies looking FOR these sort of studies that so my clinical director would not use them. A proper statistical analysis attempts to use statistics that measure multiple contexts and seeks out evidence that both supports and disproves a stance. I've been conditioned to think this way about statistics, so as a result, I tend to just disregard when people use statistics to make claims in sports due to the error in methodology, compared to my own biased history with statistics. Yes, sports are different. I get that. But as a result, I prefer the more objective observation.

    FWIW I can say that holding off KN was impressive, and the flashes of laps lead at intermediate tracks in the 56 show me more about his ability than his success today.

    I get that my opinion on this is unpopular. I'm not waivering and everyone has the right to disagree. I can understand any annoyance towards it and gladly will accept it. But I don't want to detail this thread. at the end of the day, Truex is still a champion, and better than 90% of everyone who has ever made a cup start. Moving on :)

    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
    AuzGrams and gnomesayin like this.
  30. jaqua19

    jaqua19 Team Owner

    He's been the most accomplished since 16.

    And yes, I mean the Gen 6 car. If I recall correctly, 2015(?) Is when they started messing with the package. As for statistics, I have a lot of opinions about the use of statistics in sports and the confirmation bias in that methodology to prove or disprove a stance based on working under a psychologist as a research assistant. In research, pointing to statistics that simply prove or disprove a stance is a biased design.. so naturally, that method of thinking has become conditioned to stay with me in sports. But that's a different story.

    I know it's an unpopular opinion, and I can totally understand the annoyance towards it. But I own it, and my reasons are my own. Don't want to derail this thread any further.

    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk
  31. LewTheShoe

    LewTheShoe Team Owner


    Ya lost me when you said you prefer to ignore data and statistics, just rely on 'objective observations' LOL.
    jws926 and Charlie Spencer like this.
  32. SpeedPagan

    SpeedPagan The iRacing Guru

    I think it's silly to keep comparing the points standings of the current points and playoff format to the old pre-playoff points format. Completely different rules and points, drivers would have most likely driven differently and crew chiefs would have made different calls.
  33. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    That's true to a certain point, but by the same token, the same teams are racing at the top of the standings no matter what package the car has.
  34. kkfan91

    kkfan91 Taking a 10-200

    Group qualifying at plate tracks was the most exciting qualifying has ever been.

    Group qualifying was the best idea for qualifying and could have been fixed with a couple simple changes instead of being scrapped.
    Turtle84, Mike Crayne and LewTheShoe like this.
  35. RacerrecaR

    RacerrecaR Orange cone

    The purist in me hates revenue sharing but I realize it would be most beneficial for the sport long-term. Without a change in that direction soon we will likely see 25-car fields next decade with a shorter schedule. I think most fans would be willing to compromise with revenue sharing and larger fields/schedules over smaller ones. Then again, I could be wrong on all fronts.
  36. DaBiff1618

    DaBiff1618 Team Owner

    Most popular driver is the most meaningless award in sports
  37. donthaveanickname

    donthaveanickname Team Owner

    Drivers like Norm Benning, Mike Harmon and BJ McLeod are a great addition to NASCAR.
    AuzGrams likes this.
  38. AuzGrams

    AuzGrams Team Owner

    Agreed. Can't get enough Applebee's
    Ventisca likes this.
  39. Acs

    Acs Team Owner

    Modern drivers are by far and away more talented than Earnhardt, Cale, Petty ever were. All the old-time "wheel men" couldn't hold a candle to Erik Jones let alone the Kyle Busch's of the sport.
  40. jaqua19

    jaqua19 Team Owner

    That's certainly a bold one

    Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

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