What's your unpopular NASCAR opinion?

A shorter season be stupid, if we are going to do that race 3 times a week and have a 60 race season like the 60s
 
I am ready for 2 hr time limit races.

(mainly influenced by F1)
 
1. Pocono running back to back the same weekend is a bad idea, and signals the loss of a race within the next however many (few) years.
2. The Glen should get that race.
3. The burnout < the Polish victory lap.
4. Fuel mileage races are cool.
5. All in all it's still a helluva lot of fun.

Also for the N. Wilkesboro crowd I posted a video in the "Nascar stuff to talk about" thread you might want to watch and digest. It was posted on YT just a day or two ago.
 
Big tracks with big pit lanes should open the pits during a caution for all cars in a single lap. On the next lap the pace car heads to the pits, and the green drops.
 
Rovalation 10:9 All tracks 1.5 miles and larger with two dates must run one of them on a Roval.
 
jaqua19 said:
Martin Truex Jr is the least talented champion since Labonte, and his success represents everything I feel is wrong with the current package. I feel if he replaced Stewart in the 20 and had Pearn as his CC/drove for Gibbs from 2009-2014, he'd average 2 wins a year, and wouldn't content for a single title. Nothing against the guy personally. Everything against his success.
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Confirmation bias run amok, IMO.

Coincidentally, data analytics guru David Smith posted an assessment of Truex's career performance in The Athletic last week. Strong PEER performance in the early years, when driving second rate cars, and trending upward across the years as many top drivers do. Couple that with top shelf cars for the last five years and you get consistent elite performance. Dynamite passing stats (which are always adjusted for car speed and running position to make the stats meaningful for driver assessment). Dynamite restart stats too. Average crash frequencies. A single vulnerability... setups that are tilted toward long run speed, thus not optimum for races that play out with a short run to the checkers.

BTW, you seem to have forgotten - again - that "the current package" has existed only since last February. I just don't get how that could be used to disparage Truex's five continuous years of elite performance. Actually I do get it... confirmation bias.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Confirmation bias run amok, IMO.

Coincidentally, data analytics guru David Smith posted an assessment of Truex's career performance in The Athletic last week. Strong PEER performance in the early years, when driving second rate cars, and trending upward across the years as many top drivers do. Couple that with top shelf cars for the last five years and you get consistent elite performance. Dynamite passing stats (which are always adjusted for car speed and running position to make the stats meaningful for driver assessment). Dynamite restart stats too. Average crash frequencies. A single vulnerability... setups that are tilted toward long run speed, thus not optimum for races that play out with a short run to the checkers.

BTW, you seem to have forgotten - again - that "the current package" has existed only since last February. I just don't get how that could be used to disparage Truex's five continuous years of elite performance. Actually I do get it... confirmation bias.
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Truax does not make as many pit road errors as Kyle or Hamlin, or errors in general. It just seems like Kyle gets a great pit stop more often to get the lead late in a race. Truax does it more on the track, imo.
At Furniture Row or JGR he is just faster.
 
This could be the year that one of the 1-Time Cup Champs separate themselves from the others.

Joey robbed NASCAR fans of that last year with his glorious late run at Homestead. Hamlin might do the same this year. 2 Cup Championships beats 1 -- except for NASCAR nerds. Present company excepted. :)
 
Greg said:
As a chevrolet fan I got to say the number of bowtie championships is obscene.

Create a junior championship cup for the Fords and Toyotas to have, to ensure they get something out the deal every year.
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Everything is taken care of. JJ was the last Chevy champion for at least 5 yrs.
 
Team Penske said:
Wellllllllllll the guy ahead after race 26 is only the champion IF the season is only 26 races long.
Are we trying to make KB a real champion here?
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Definitely not aiming to inflate any of KB's stuff. I would have considered Truex my champion if he had lost at Homestead in 2017. That was more of what I was hinting at, than suggesting a shorter season. Although, I used to be of that opinion for ratings reasons of having the playoffs in the summer time, I think I would not enjoy the longer off season or less races anymore.
 
kkfan91 said:
A shorter season be stupid, if we are going to do that race 3 times a week and have a 60 race season like the 60s
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I agree. I think it should be 36 races, however they should do a doubleheader at a place like Richmond in addition to Pocono and a weeknight race at Gateway so the season can end in mid to late October
 
1. Fuel mileage races are great.
2. Cautions after stages end ruin strategy/flow of race.
3. Side-by-side racing is not exciting; passing is.
4. I wish every race went caution-free.
5. Pole winner should be awarded a bonus points.
6. The playoffs are great but point system is poorly executed all-around. Winner should be awarded more points.
7. Double points for "crown jewel" races.
8. Maximum 1 car per team with a salary cap, plus revenue sharing which includes team sponsorship dollars but excludes merchandise sales. Any excess revenue goes into a pool that is evenly distributed among all full-time teams who have qualified for every race in a season.
9. No charter system, no provisionals.
10. BOYS (and girls) HAVE AT IT.
 
RacerrecaR said:
Any excess revenue goes into a pool that is evenly distributed among all full-time teams who have qualified for every race in a season.
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and every kid gets a trophy for showing up. No team's profits should be taken away
to assist those who can't compete.
You forgot to add "Tires and gas under green flag stops only."
 
Drivers are over-rated. If they don't have a great car under them or some luck, they can't win. A perfect car makes a good driver look like Superman.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Confirmation bias run amok, IMO.

Coincidentally, data analytics guru David Smith posted an assessment of Truex's career performance in The Athletic last week. Strong PEER performance in the early years, when driving second rate cars, and trending upward across the years as many top drivers do. Couple that with top shelf cars for the last five years and you get consistent elite performance. Dynamite passing stats (which are always adjusted for car speed and running position to make the stats meaningful for driver assessment). Dynamite restart stats too. Average crash frequencies. A single vulnerability... setups that are tilted toward long run speed, thus not optimum for races that play out with a short run to the checkers.

BTW, you seem to have forgotten - again - that "the current package" has existed only since last February. I just don't get how that could be used to disparage Truex's five continuous years of elite performance. Actually I do get it... confirmation bias.
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Nah, I just don't think he is THAT good, with or without creating my own support. My biased rationalization is pointless, sure. I never saw him as that much more talented than Bowyer. He was out performed by teammates in second rate equipment. Package aside, I just don't think he's good. I just don't. And that's okay.

Let me ask you this, of the champions from2000s and 2010s...

Jeff Gordon
Tony Stewart
Matt Kenseth
Kurt Busch
Jimmie Johnson
Brad Keselowski
Kevin Harvick
Kyle Busch
Joey Logano

Who is Truex better than?
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jaqua19 said:
Nah, I just don't think he is THAT good, with or without creating my own support. My biased rationalization is pointless, sure. I never saw him as that much more talented than Bowyer. He was out performed by teammates in second rate equipment. Package aside, I just don't think he's good. I just don't. And that's okay.

Let me ask you this, of the champions from2000s and 2010s...

Jeff Gordon
Tony Stewart
Matt Kenseth
Kurt Busch
Jimmie Johnson
Brad Keselowski
Kevin Harvick
Kyle Busch
Joey Logano

Who is Truex better than?
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Logano , Kurt Busch and Matt Kenseth for sure . Equal to Keselowski.
 
Group qualifying was to watch till it turned into the ****show, happy to have single car runs back though.
 
jaqua19 said:
Package aside, I just don't think he's good. I just don't. And that's okay.
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It's not a question of okay or not okay. You're making bold categorical claims on a discussion forum that are heavy on hunches and light on evidence, and they are being challenged. @LewTheShoe is attempted to refute them with data, which you are sidestepping. More glaringly, you keep ignoring his point about your "package" assertion. The low downforce packages from 2016-2018 and the current high downforce package of 2019 are vastly different, and reward different driving skill sets. Truex has unquestionably been among the two or three most accomplished drivers under both.

What gives? Are you using the wrong term? Do you mean the Gen 7 car itself?
 
gnomesayin said:
It's not a question of okay or not okay. You're making bold categorical claims on a discussion forum that are heavy on hunches and light on evidence, and they are being challenged. @LewTheShoe is attempted to refute them with data, which you are sidestepping. More glaringly, you keep ignoring his point about your "package" assertion. The low downforce packages from 2016-2018 and the current high downforce package of 2019 are vastly different, and reward different driving skill sets. Truex has unquestionably been among the two or three most accomplished drivers under both.

What gives? Are you using the wrong term? Do you mean the Gen 7 car itself?
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Gen 6 car then, yes. Is this not the unpopular opinion thread? I understand his points, but I do not need to provide evidence because it's my opinion. Him being out performed by Montoya and Bowyer for me is hard to overlook. I also find it hard to ignore that his success is during a 4 year time span, when drivers are consistently putting up 27+ top 10 seasons. Prior to that, it happened twice in over 15 years. But I tend to stay away from statistics in sports when it comes to proving a point, I tend to disagree with the use of more advanced analytics to support a claim in sports due to the methodology, so I don't put that much thought into it, and will even gloss past the 27+ top 10 thing.

Working in research and statistics in the past, I can say through my own experience and education that, believe it or not, pointing to statistics that refute, OR prove a stance (which is what Lew, fans, and myself as well have all done) would actually be considered a confirmation biased methodology in research and statistics,..I distinctly remember sorting through research studies looking FOR these sort of studies that so my clinical director would not use them. A proper statistical analysis attempts to use statistics that measure multiple contexts and seeks out evidence that both supports and disproves a stance. I've been conditioned to think this way about statistics, so as a result, I tend to just disregard when people use statistics to make claims in sports due to the error in methodology, compared to my own biased history with statistics. Yes, sports are different. I get that. But as a result, I prefer the more objective observation.

FWIW I can say that holding off KN was impressive, and the flashes of laps lead at intermediate tracks in the 56 show me more about his ability than his success today.

I get that my opinion on this is unpopular. I'm not waivering and everyone has the right to disagree. I can understand any annoyance towards it and gladly will accept it. But I don't want to detail this thread. at the end of the day, Truex is still a champion, and better than 90% of everyone who has ever made a cup start. Moving on :)

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gnomesayin said:
It's not a question of okay or not okay. You're making bold categorical claims on a discussion forum that are heavy on hunches and light on evidence, and they are being challenged. @LewTheShoe is attempted to refute them with data, which you are sidestepping. More glaringly, you keep ignoring his point about your "package" assertion. The low downforce packages from 2016-2018 and the current high downforce package of 2019 are vastly different, and reward different driving skill sets. Truex has unquestionably been among the two or three most accomplished drivers under both.

What gives? Are you using the wrong term? Do you mean the Gen 7 car itself?
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He's been the most accomplished since 16.

And yes, I mean the Gen 6 car. If I recall correctly, 2015(?) Is when they started messing with the package. As for statistics, I have a lot of opinions about the use of statistics in sports and the confirmation bias in that methodology to prove or disprove a stance based on working under a psychologist as a research assistant. In research, pointing to statistics that simply prove or disprove a stance is a biased design.. so naturally, that method of thinking has become conditioned to stay with me in sports. But that's a different story.

I know it's an unpopular opinion, and I can totally understand the annoyance towards it. But I own it, and my reasons are my own. Don't want to derail this thread any further.

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I think it's silly to keep comparing the points standings of the current points and playoff format to the old pre-playoff points format. Completely different rules and points, drivers would have most likely driven differently and crew chiefs would have made different calls.
 
SpeedPagan said:
I think it's silly to keep comparing the points standings of the current points and playoff format to the old pre-playoff points format. Completely different rules and points, drivers would have most likely driven differently and crew chiefs would have made different calls.
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That's true to a certain point, but by the same token, the same teams are racing at the top of the standings no matter what package the car has.
 
Group qualifying at plate tracks was the most exciting qualifying has ever been.

Group qualifying was the best idea for qualifying and could have been fixed with a couple simple changes instead of being scrapped.
 
Team Penske said:
and every kid gets a trophy for showing up. No team's profits should be taken away
to assist those who can't compete.
You forgot to add "Tires and gas under green flag stops only."
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The purist in me hates revenue sharing but I realize it would be most beneficial for the sport long-term. Without a change in that direction soon we will likely see 25-car fields next decade with a shorter schedule. I think most fans would be willing to compromise with revenue sharing and larger fields/schedules over smaller ones. Then again, I could be wrong on all fronts.
 
Modern drivers are by far and away more talented than Earnhardt, Cale, Petty ever were. All the old-time "wheel men" couldn't hold a candle to Erik Jones let alone the Kyle Busch's of the sport.
 
Acs said:
Modern drivers are by far and away more talented than Earnhardt, Cale, Petty ever were. All the old-time "wheel men" couldn't hold a candle to Erik Jones let alone the Kyle Busch's of the sport.
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That's certainly a bold one

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