Who DOESN'T belong in the Hall of Fame?

Formerjackman

Formerjackman

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Since there seems to be a mad rush to put anybody who ever had even a modest amount of success in the sport or has a tragic story, of the people not currently active in the sport, who DOESN'T get in? I have been getting slammed for trying to be selective about who gets in, so where do YOU draw the line?
 
John Wes Townley. Career tragically cut short when dad cut off the chicken money. John is the one on the bottom
29c9Nxj
 
Formerjackman said:
Since there seems to be a mad rush to put anybody who ever had even a modest amount of success in the sport or has a tragic story, of the people not currently active in the sport, who DOESN'T get in? I have been getting slammed for trying to be selective about who gets in, so where do YOU draw the line?
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Heck, there's no single person that can decide that standard 'bar' but it seems to work damn well with the process in place where the group of knowledgeable voters get to make the decision. Everyone's not going to agree on what that bar is so I don't really get the point other than to trash drivers for what some will consider limited success.

I remember when the whole NASCAR HoF idea was floated and the eventual decision was to induct 5 drivers. Fan screamed that wasn't enough. Some thought it should open with a group of 20 or more because we'd never have a reason to go there. Now we're questioning their significance to the sport and weather they're worthy of the honor?

Personally, I don't see any problem with anyone that's made the HoF. They all seem deserving to me.

My 'bar' is undefined.
 
Carl Edwards out, Kurt Busch in. That's my "line" and the two drivers I can think of that are closest.

Edit: it's case by case, and if your career in any way impresses the voting group then you 100% deserve a spot in the hall
 
Hey! Don't go dissing my homie Buckshot! :rolleyes: (Okay, I'm actually just pissed because you beat me to him by 5 minutes.)

Anybody mention Bobby Hamilton Jr yet? Although Stephanie would be a lock ;)
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Heck, there's no single person that can decide that standard 'bar' but it seems to work damn well with the process in place where the group of knowledgeable voters get to make the decision. Everyone's not going to agree on what that bar is so I don't really get the point other than to trash drivers for what some will consider limited success.

I remember when the whole NASCAR HoF idea was floated and the eventual decision was to induct 5 drivers. Fan screamed that wasn't enough. Some thought it should open with a group of 20 or more because we'd never have a reason to go there. Now we're questioning their significance to the sport and weather they're worthy of the honor?

Personally, I don't see any problem with anyone that's made the HoF. They all seem deserving to me.

My 'bar' is undefined.
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So why not just give a trophy to EVERYONE? What's so bad about having just ONE THING to recognize the elite of the elite? I just see the whole thing being about as much of a sham as the Most Popular Driver has been for most of it's existence. I think BECAUSE it's such a small tight knit group of people and it tends to be like a little club, the people closest to the sport might be the LEAST likely to have an objective opinion about who should be in the Hall.
 
LJ7201 said:
Carl Edwards out, Kurt Busch in. That's my "line" and the two drivers I can think of that are closest.

Edit: it's case by case, and if your career in any way impresses the voting group then you 100% deserve a spot in the hall
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So Carl Edwards is out, but Davey Allison is IN? Sorry, I don't see the logic there. Carl falls a tiny bit below my threshold on the Cup level, but if you add his Xfinity resume, he is WAY ahead of Allison. James Hylton, JD McDufiie, Jimmy Means and Dave Marcis all had careers that impressed me. Do they all get in too?
 
Formerjackman said:
So Carl Edwards is out, but Davey Allison is IN? Sorry, I don't see the logic there. Carl falls a tiny bit below my threshold on the Cup level, but if you add his Xfinity resume, he is WAY ahead of Allison. James Hylton, JD McDufiie, Jimmy Means and Dave Marcis all had careers that impressed me. Do they all get in too?
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I agree about Edward's
 
StandOnIt said:
I'm on the fence with JJ though, he did wonders for Mittler in the trucks, it depends on what he can do with XXtreeme, could be a career builder

TRUCKS: In and out of the garage, J.J. Yeley extends Mittler team’s last-place streak
J.J. Yeley picked up the 4th last-place finish of his NASCAR Camping World Truck Series career in Friday’s North Carolina Education Lottery 200 at the Charlotte Motor Speedway
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I sure glad to have you making legitimate contributions to the debate. ;)
 
Formerjackman said:
So Carl Edwards is out, but Davey Allison is IN? Sorry, I don't see the logic there. Carl falls a tiny bit below my threshold on the Cup level, but if you add his Xfinity resume, he is WAY ahead of Allison. James Hylton, JD McDufiie, Jimmy Means and Dave Marcis all had careers that impressed me. Do they all get in too?
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It's a Hall of Fame.

Some figures get their fame from winning races, owning legendary teams, great media work, or just having a great story. Allison came from racing royalty and was a huge name that was on the course to superstar status. Edwards probably will make it in, but I wouldn't vote for him, I'm okay with him eventually making it in, but on the pure performance scale he should be the cutoff. However, the HoF isn't solely based on performance, and that's perfectly fine.

Allison (and Kulwicki) both fall short in terms of on paper results, but that isn't everything. The Hall of Fame includes not only drivers, and is not meant to be an objective meter to rank careers. These names have stories attached to them. Everyone has their personal opinions on what is worthy of making the hall, but making it an 100% Hall of Merit is impossible and a waste of time. If that was the goal, the induction process would look far different.

There's nothing wrong with getting in the hall solely based on the story they either "wrote" or were apart of. The names Davey Allison and Alan Kulwicki mean something to hall voters, and a lack of on track results due to tragic circumstances shouldn't be used against him. Davey has more fame attached to him than Edward's. Not either of their faults, it's just how it shakes out.
 
LJ7201 said:
It's a Hall of Fame.

Some figures get their fame from winning races, owning legendary teams, great media work, or just having a great story. Allison came from racing royalty and was a huge name that was on the course to superstar status. Edwards probably will make it in, but I wouldn't vote for him, I'm okay with him eventually making it in, but on the pure performance scale he should be the cutoff. However, the HoF isn't solely based on performance, and that's perfectly fine.

Allison (and Kulwicki) both fall short in terms of on paper results, but that isn't everything. The Hall of Fame includes not only drivers, and is not meant to be an objective meter to rank careers. These names have stories attached to them. Everyone has their personal opinions on what is worthy of making the hall, but making it an 100% Hall of Merit is impossible and a waste of time. If that was the goal, the induction process would look far different.

There's nothing wrong with getting in the hall solely based on the story they either "wrote" or were apart of. The names Davey Allison and Alan Kulwicki mean something to hall voters, and a lack of on track results due to tragic circumstances shouldn't be used against him. Davey has more fame attached to him than Edward's. Not either of their faults, it's just how it shakes out.
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We've had Halls for those kinds of stories for decades. I was hoping for a tougher standard for the actual NASCAR Hall, but surprise surprise, I'm in the minority. I have no problem recognizing many of these people IN the Hall, but I would like to have some sort of recognition for the "one percenters".
 
Greg said:
David Pearson should have been in the first class.
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I'm a HUGE Pearson guy, BUT, SOMEBODY had to be the first guy to miss the initial cut. I'm not sure who you bump in class one to make room for him.
 
The greats get their due respect, the hall is good to give credit to those who deserve it but it's not an end all be all. You ask alot of the voters and I'm not sure what it would take to satisfy you, I don't see anything wrong with the hall and the value of accolades varies depending on who you ask. The "one percenters" are recognized by fans and anyone else who cares, and that's all that is needed. No one is trying to disrespect those who have pulled off amazing feats.
 
LJ7201 said:
The greats get their due respect, the hall is good to give credit to those who deserve it but it's not an end all be all. You ask alot of the voters and I'm not sure what it would take to satisfy you, I don't see anything wrong with the hall and the value of accolades varies depending on who you ask. The "one percenters" are recognized by fans and anyone else who cares, and that's all that is needed. No one is trying to disrespect those who have pulled off amazing feats.
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I have been pretty clear about how I would have structured the Hall, but my ideas would have blown up the HoF process of a marketing tool. First and foremost, I think it's absurd that we have a minimum number of inductees each year. I can easily foresee a year in the not too distant future where there might not be ANY truly worthy nominees, but that will NOT stop them from putting people in, because the sport will NOT miss the opportunity to push the nominees, and then the announcements and then the actual ceremony before the public, whether it's justified or not. I am also a firm believer in inducting people by their respective series, instead of one size fits all, and in allowing people to be elected in multiple series, IE, Kyle Busch.
 
Formerjackman said:
think it's absurd that we have a minimum number of inductees each year.
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I have no problem with a minimum number but five may become too high (if it isn't already).

As implemented currently, they're not entering a minimum of five, they're admitting classes fixed at five. A minimum would imply they have the option to admit six or seven or more. If they have had that option, they certainly should have used it for the first class and included Pearson.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I have no problem with a minimum number but five may become too high (if it isn't already).

As implemented currently, they're not entering a minimum of five, they're admitting classes fixed at five. A minimum would imply they have the option to admit six or seven or more. If they have had that option, they certainly should have used it for the first class and included Pearson.
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Point taken, but I DO think that nominees should have to get a certain percentage of votes to be selected. If that means one, two or NOBODY goes in in a certain year, so be it. I think that it's absurd to think that in a sport with as few participants as NASCAR that there is going to be five worthy people every year, and maybe not even three. I would say within five years we are going to be scraping the bottom of the proverbial barrel, and I think there is going to be pressure to induct people that will garner public and media attention whether they are truly worthy or not. THAT's what concerns me most.
 
what concerns me most is that i think i see this all caps for emphasis thing is catching on with other posters as well.

i'm going to try to counteract it.

;)
 
Reed's career has taken so many turns, I really have no idea on what he is capable of. Guys like that I'd like to be able to put them in a JGR Xfinity car for about 10 races and then either get them a real ride or send them home for forever.
 
LJ7201 said:
It's a Hall of Fame.

Some figures get their fame from winning races, owning legendary teams, great media work, or just having a great story. Allison came from racing royalty and was a huge name that was on the course to superstar status. Edwards probably will make it in, but I wouldn't vote for him, I'm okay with him eventually making it in, but on the pure performance scale he should be the cutoff. However, the HoF isn't solely based on performance, and that's perfectly fine.

Allison (and Kulwicki) both fall short in terms of on paper results, but that isn't everything. The Hall of Fame includes not only drivers, and is not meant to be an objective meter to rank careers. These names have stories attached to them. Everyone has their personal opinions on what is worthy of making the hall, but making it an 100% Hall of Merit is impossible and a waste of time. If that was the goal, the induction process would look far different.

There's nothing wrong with getting in the hall solely based on the story they either "wrote" or were apart of. The names Davey Allison and Alan Kulwicki mean something to hall voters, and a lack of on track results due to tragic circumstances shouldn't be used against him. Davey has more fame attached to him than Edward's. Not either of their faults, it's just how it shakes out.
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Boo yeah brotber
 
Yogisd1 said:
Is it too much to ask that HOF nominees be retired for five years before they are considered?
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Agreed. I think NASCAR wants to do them ASAP to maximize the hype, which in my opinion is exactly opposite of the right way to do it.
 
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