Why do a lot of you guys hate plate racing?

I love plate racing more than almost every other type of NASCAR racing. I'd even argue that pack-style plate racing is THE iconic NASCAR racing, more so than even short track beating and banging.
 
No plate hate. The "Big Ones" are fun to watch sometimes. Admittedly the big wrecks ruin some races. I guess I put it in the category of some races you have to drive a certain way. Some races are luck. Some races you get paid off for being ballsy or lucky. You can't go north to play Green Bay and expect certain conditions. Every golf course is different. It's all good with me. Apologies in advance for not reading the whole thread. We're racing this week and it's good.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
Everyone's own opinion is the only one that matters TO THEM.
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This is not remotely true of me, nor would I guess of many others. I've seen one poster state that. Well two, but I don't think you believe it. I wouldn't be on a discussion forum if I didn't find value in reading other people's opinions. I could type emails to myself if reading my own thoughts were all that mattered. There are posters here whose opinions I'm genuinely interested to read, even when they disagree with mine.
 
Spotter22 said:
We are talking about Daytona and plate racing and by some how it ruined it.
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No, you're talking about history and cherry-picking your statistics. Did most races in those days usually end with a handful of cars on the lead lap? We both know plates were not implemented with the goal of having more cars finish on the lead lap. That's strictly a side effect.

The number of cars that finish on the lead lap has gone up steadily at all other tracks since the plates were implemented, and yet somehow they've done it without plates. Could it be that having more cars on the lead lap at all tracks, not just plate tracks, is the result of something else? Maybe the teams have become more competitive across the board? Nah.
 
aunty dive said:
Chess at 200 mph. I think it’s fascinating. Apparently, a lot of people do. NASCAR should do this, NASCAR should do that ...

All NASCAR really has to do is make sure the cars stay out of the fence. The tail-dragging 2018 set-up works for me.
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I'd like to throttle every announcer that ever wrapped his pie hole around that nonsense. In chess, a grandmaster doesn't lose when a beginner makes a mistake.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I'd like to throttle every announcer that ever wrapped his pie hole around that nonsense. In chess, a grandmaster doesn't lose when a beginner makes a mistake.
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Very true, plate racing involves a ton of luck, sure there is skill, not going to deny that. You have to be lucky to avoid all the huge pile ups, you have to be lucky to get a push at the right moment. The fact that you have your foot mashed to the floor most of the time takes the element of throttle control and braking almost totally out of the equation.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Plate racing remains my least favorite form of stock car racing, but in recent years I have grown to appreciate it more than I did previously.
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I understand and appreciate the skills required more than I did when I first became a race fan. That doesn't mean I've come to appreciate the end result any more. Indeed, the more I learned about racing, the less I enjoyed plate racing.

I've reached the point I can appreciate the skills required for almost any craft, but a well-executed sculpture of dog poop is still dog poop.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
I believe the higher chance for underdogs to succeed adds to the thrill for some.
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That's something I left off my original list. I'd enjoy an underdog winning a lot more if I felt he or she won that day because they put together a faster or better handling car, or that the driver was finally 'in the zone' for once. Instead, it looks to me like those underdogs managed great finishes through the luck of the draft and the random elimination of better performing teams.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
That's something I left off my original list. I'd enjoy an underdog winning a lot more if I felt he or she won that day because they put together a faster or better handling car, or that the driver was finally 'in the zone' for once. Instead, it looks to me like those underdogs managed great finishes through the luck of the draft and the random elimination of better performing teams.
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When 2/3 of the field is no longer running h at the end, an underdog is bound to get a decent finish.;);)
 
Spotter22 said:
You just said it again " I dont like plate racing" yet you will watch. Do you eat food you dont like, watch movies you dont like, go to stores you dont like, hate reading but by books? I find this fascinating.
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I like the people involved. Can you understand someone attending a child's crappy school play or mediocre sports game simply because he's the kid's parent? How about eating a meal prepared by a friend, knowing in advance that it's probably not going to be particularly good?

It's part of the schedule. I'm in a couple of group exercise classes at the gym. While I enjoy each overall, there are some individual exercises I dislike. I muddle through them, knowing there's stuff coming up that I like more. (Daytona particularly benefits from being the first race of the season.)

I'm a fan of the sport. I find plate racing to be the most abominable type of event NASCAR stages, inferior to almost all other forms of motorsports. With that emphatically said, there are no other forms of motorsports on this weekend. Any race, even a plate race if that's my only option, still beats Hell out of everything else on the tube this weekend.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I like the people involved. Can you understand someone attending a child's crappy school play or mediocre sports game simply because he's the kid's parent? How about eating a meal prepared by a friend, knowing in advance that it's probably not going to be particularly good?

It's part of the schedule. I'm in a couple of group exercise classes at the gym. While I enjoy each overall, there are some individual exercises I dislike. I muddle through them, knowing there's stuff coming up that I like more. (Daytona particularly benefits from being the first race of the season.)

I'm a fan of the sport. I find plate racing to be the most abominable type of event NASCAR stages, inferior to almost all other forms of motorsports. With that emphatically said, there are no other forms of motorsports on this weekend. Any race, even a plate race if that's my only option, still beats Hell out of everything else on the tube this weekend.
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Spotter can't get this through his head, I love Nascar, I'm a harsh critic of the sport because I love it so much, I don't know why that is so difficult to understand.
 
Someone wrote about honesty.

Here is why I like and dislike plate racing. I dislike watching cars travel in a pack, lap after lap, with zero passing. It happens in every plate race and is boring. I like watching plate racing because one mistake causes large numbers of cars to crash. I don't want to see anyone get hurt. The crashes at the speeds they are moving, and being as close to one another as they are causes some spectacular crashes.

That's as honest a post as I can make about plate racing.
 
gnomesayin said:
This is not remotely true of me, nor would I guess of many others. I've seen one poster state that. Well two, but I don't think you believe it. I wouldn't be on a discussion forum if I didn't find value in reading other people's opinions. I could type emails to myself if reading my own thoughts were all that mattered. There are posters here whose opinions I'm genuinely interested to read, even when they disagree with mine.
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For sure for sure. I like reading about lots of different opinions as it helps me see a better picture of things. You know I think it is really good if people are tense and sweating bricks when a plate race is on cuz they are having a good time. Im not going to insult them cuz they like it. Im more on the side of plate races being dull and boring and I dont need some loudmouth telling me that I shouldnt watch or get talked down to cuz I see it different from them.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I'd like to throttle every announcer that ever wrapped his pie hole around that nonsense. In chess, a grandmaster doesn't lose when a beginner makes a mistake.
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Rev Leroy from the Church of whats happnin now says- can I get an amen for the "I'd like to throttle every announcer that ever wrapped his pie hole around that nonsense. In chess, a grandmaster doesn't lose when a beginner makes a mistake."
 
The Church of What's Happening Now? Gods of us all, I haven't thought of Flip Wilson in decades. Lay a little Geraldine on me! :)
 
Between 2007 and 2017 we've seen 18 winners between Daytona and Dega (only points races included). Only Newman, Bayne, Almirola, and Ku. Busch have a lone win during this period between the two tracks. Most notably, BK has 6 wins which means he has won 14% of points restrictor plate races between the 2007 Daytona 500 and the 2017 fall Dega race.

With 8 different drivers winning 3 or more races during this period, I'd say these races aren't as much of a crapshoot as some would like to believe. It is a style of racing that requires different skills, just like not all drivers do well on road courses, they require a different skill set.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I'd like to throttle every announcer that ever wrapped his pie hole around that nonsense. In chess, a grandmaster doesn't lose when a beginner makes a mistake.
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It’s a figure of speech, Chuck.

There are strategic moves made throughout a plate race by those who know what they’re doing. How about checkers at 200 mph ... is that better?
 
Snowman said:
Between 2007 and 2017 we've seen 18 winners between Daytona and Dega (only points races included). Only Newman, Bayne, Almirola, and Ku. Busch have a lone win during this period between the two tracks. Most notably, BK has 6 wins which means he has won 14% of points restrictor plate races between the 2007 Daytona 500 and the 2017 fall Dega race.

With 8 different drivers winning 3 or more races during this period, I'd say these races aren't as much of a crapshoot as some would like to believe. It is a style of racing that requires different skills, just like not all drivers do well on road courses, they require a different skill set.
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Well, you still need an engine builder, and that's not democratized evenly across the field.

And you also have this point:

33. Daytona and Talladega are big clusterf***s of races that require the least driver talent to win at on the circuit. (See Michael Waltrip, Derrike Cope, Trevor Bayne, Bobby Hillin Jr., Jimmy Spencer, David Ragan, Greg Sacks, and Phil Parsons.)
 
I enjoy plate racing and think it's some of the best NASCAR has to offer. Wrecks are part of the sport and as much as people around here deny it its part of the draw. I like the speed and that's why I enjoy them and the mile and a half's more so than the short tracks and road courses.
 
Privateer said:
Well, you still need an engine builder, and that's not democratized evenly across the field.

And you also have this point:

33. Daytona and Talladega are big clusterf***s of races that require the least driver talent to win at on the circuit. (See Michael Waltrip, Derrike Cope, Trevor Bayne, Bobby Hillin Jr., Jimmy Spencer, David Ragan, Greg Sacks, and Phil Parsons.)
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Point 1: This is motorsports, the driver and/or team with the most resources has the most chances to succeed. You can say the same thing about sports in general.

Point 2: More talented than "no talent" drivers win more often then not. I remember rookie Logano winning a rain shortened race, also Chris Buscher. How about Regan Smith winning FRR's first race at Darlington on pit strategy? A wins a win whether it's a plate race, a rain shortened race, a fuel mileage race, or a pit strategy race the record book will say Buscher has one Cup win, Logano is the youngest winner in Cup, Smith got FRR their first win and Cope won the Daytona 500. Whether they were the best driver that day or they deserve to have won it or not, the fact of the matter is they did.

If you want to compile statistics as I did from 1988 forward to try and dispute my point you're welcome to do so, but I backed mine with cold hard facts from the past ten years and it shows that more often than not a top team with a talented driver or a driver with a restrictor plate skill set wins more so than stand alone winners.
 
Privateer said:
33. Daytona and Talladega are big clusterf***s of races that require the least driver talent to win at on the circuit. (See Michael Waltrip, Derrike Cope, Trevor Bayne, Bobby Hillin Jr., Jimmy Spencer, David Ragan, Greg Sacks, and Phil Parsons.)
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You'll get pushback on this claim. I think it is self-evidently true based on the names you mentioned alone, but you'll hear simultaneously that one positive is that "anyone", or at least a much larger percentage of the field, can win, and that it requires great talent, just different talent. That's contradictory. If many more drivers are capable of winning a plate race, that means it is easier, by definition. That is a trait some people enjoy, and if that's the case, fine.

As @Snowman points out, success at plate races isn't truly random. Results are more random because of the unpredictable carnage and quirks of pack drafting. Yet some drivers absolutely have the knack for it more than others. That doesn't mean it is anywhere near the test of race driving skills that other tracks provide. Some professional basketball players would be better than others if the rim were five feet high, and it would be different players than the ones who dominate the sport currently. That doesn't mean I would take such a contest as seriously.

I think the essence of the strong love / hate divide is mostly people who are content to watch for entertainment vs. people who believe it is less legitimate as sport. That's 90% of the disagreement and the different motives involved. Then there are those in the middle who just love racing and are more agreeable and less likely to complain. It takes all kinds, and it should be fine for everyone to have and voice their opinions.
 
Last 8 Restrictor plate races ranked by average finish:
Rank Driver Starts Avg Fin
1 Aric Almirola 7 10.71
2 Kurt Busch 8 13.13
3 Ricky Stenhouse Jr. 8 13.38
4 Denny Hamlin 8 13.75
5 Joey Logano 8 14.13
6 Kyle Larson 8 14.25
7 Gray Gaulding 2 14.5
8 Darrell Wallace Jr. 1 15
9 A.J. Allmendinger 8 15.25
10 Paul Menard 8 15.25
11 Ryan Newman 8 15.5
12 Kyle Busch 8 15.63
13 Brendan Gaughan 4 15.75
14 Brad Keselowski 8 15.75
15 Trevor Bayne 8 16.38
16 Michael Waltrip 3 16.67
17 Ryan Blaney 8 17.25
18 David Gilliland 2 18
19 Michael McDowell 8 18.13
20 Austin Dillon 8 18.5

Doesn't seem to correspond very well with the final point standings for those years.
 
Plate racing isn't as good as it was in the early to late 90's. It was one of the most exciting forms of racing. Now, they've made it to where if there is a single line up front with a few laps to go, nobody can pass. The Clash is a prime example of that.
 
aunty dive said:
It’s a figure of speech, Chuck.

There are strategic moves made throughout a plate race by those who know what they’re doing. How about checkers at 200 mph ... is that better?
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Still an example where a beginner's mistake will only benefit an experienced player, not destroy him.

How about Mumblty Peg? That's an example where a rookie can inadvertently goof up a long-time player.
 
klemmabyna said:
Last 8 Restrictor plate races ranked by average finish:
Rank Driver Starts Avg Fin
1 Aric Almirola 7 10.71
2 Kurt Busch 8 13.13
3 Ricky Stenhouse Jr. 8 13.38
4 Denny Hamlin 8 13.75
5 Joey Logano 8 14.13
6 Kyle Larson 8 14.25
7 Gray Gaulding 2 14.5
8 Darrell Wallace Jr. 1 15
9 A.J. Allmendinger 8 15.25
10 Paul Menard 8 15.25
11 Ryan Newman 8 15.5
12 Kyle Busch 8 15.63
13 Brendan Gaughan 4 15.75
14 Brad Keselowski 8 15.75
15 Trevor Bayne 8 16.38
16 Michael Waltrip 3 16.67
17 Ryan Blaney 8 17.25
18 David Gilliland 2 18
19 Michael McDowell 8 18.13
20 Austin Dillon 8 18.5

Doesn't seem to correspond very well with the final point standings for those years.
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Keeping in mind that some of those drivers (Gaulding, Wallace) didn't run in all eight of the statistically sampled races. Comparing their average finishes to those who did run all eight is statistically invalid.

Just another nit-pickin' point of clarification.
 
Quick: State who is the best restrictor plate racer.

Filtered for 7 or more starts:
Rank Driver Starts Avg Fin
1 Aric Almirola 7 10.71
2 Kurt Busch 8 13.13
3 Ricky Stenhouse Jr. 8 13.38
4 Denny Hamlin 8 13.75
5 Joey Logano 8 14.13
6 Kyle Larson 8 14.25
9 A.J. Allmendinger 8 15.25
10 Paul Menard 8 15.25
11 Ryan Newman 8 15.5
12 Kyle Busch 8 15.63
14 Brad Keselowski 8 15.75
15 Trevor Bayne 8 16.38
17 Ryan Blaney 8 17.25
19 Michael McDowell 8 18.13
20 Austin Dillon 8 18.5
21 Clint Bowyer 8 18.75
23 David Ragan 8 19.25
26 Jamie McMurray 8 19.38
27 Kasey Kahne 8 19.38
29 Kevin Harvick 8 20.38
31 Chase Elliott 8 21
33 Jimmie Johnson 8 21.75
34 Landon Cassill 8 22.25
38 Martin Truex Jr. 8 23.63
39 Matt Kenseth 8 24.75
42 Matt DiBenedetto 8 25.88
46 Chris Buescher 8 26.88
47 Dale Earnhardt Jr. 7 27.86
48 Danica Patrick 8 27.88
 
klemmabyna said:
Quick: State who is the best restrictor plate racer.

Filtered for 7 or more starts:
Rank Driver Starts Avg Fin
1 Aric Almirola 7 10.71
2 Kurt Busch 8 13.13
3 Ricky Stenhouse Jr. 8 13.38
4 Denny Hamlin 8 13.75
5 Joey Logano 8 14.13
6 Kyle Larson 8 14.25
9 A.J. Allmendinger 8 15.25
10 Paul Menard 8 15.25
11 Ryan Newman 8 15.5
12 Kyle Busch 8 15.63
14 Brad Keselowski 8 15.75
15 Trevor Bayne 8 16.38
17 Ryan Blaney 8 17.25
19 Michael McDowell 8 18.13
20 Austin Dillon 8 18.5
21 Clint Bowyer 8 18.75
23 David Ragan 8 19.25
26 Jamie McMurray 8 19.38
27 Kasey Kahne 8 19.38
29 Kevin Harvick 8 20.38
31 Chase Elliott 8 21
33 Jimmie Johnson 8 21.75
34 Landon Cassill 8 22.25
38 Martin Truex Jr. 8 23.63
39 Matt Kenseth 8 24.75
42 Matt DiBenedetto 8 25.88
46 Chris Buescher 8 26.88
47 Dale Earnhardt Jr. 7 27.86
48 Danica Patrick 8 27.88
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And that, kids, is some useful fantasy information. ;)
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Still an example where a beginner's mistake will only benefit an experienced player, not destroy him.

How about Mumblty Peg? That's an example where a rookie can inadvertently goof up a long-time player.
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Bobby was fixin to put the hurt on Boris until Billy Bob took out half the board. People who compare chess to plate racing should be slapped around at the very least. Caning would be better.
 
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