Tumbleweed
Team Owner
I've often wondered about this. I think he might have. I think he was as good as Jimmy is and was capable of winning 7 championships just as Jimmy did if Ray had not left when he did.
Still only 6this topic is usually a Reddit favorite but I'll say my piece as a Jeff Gordon fan, a hero of mine since I was in third grade. Consider me reeled in. Ray leaving didnt cost Jeff 7 championships. HMS and the 24 would have rebuilt just fine, which was proven in the 01 title with Loomis, the 07 season with Steve and the magical 2014 season. The change to the gimmick Chase and Playoff systems is the main culprit. Now I'll exit gracefully before the others get here.
Well this whole exercise is hypothetical. But I’d imagine let’s work off of 95,97,98,01 since it’s factual. Then 04 as he was the best all season pretty much, then 07, 14. There’s your 7.Still only 6
This is pretty much the only right answer, but I never saw Ray staying the duration of Jeff’s career. Even though I got very excited to see him back at HMS in 13,14 and 15.We'll never know.
^ ThisThe biggest reason the answer is no is because Ray was burnt out on being a crew chief and wasn't going to do it much longer, whether he stayed at HMS or not. What made Chad Knaus what he was is that he kept the fire burning much longer than most. You can't do what Ray and Chad did year after year without being totally consumed by the task at hand. Most people never have that, and most of the ones that do burn out fairly quickly. There were people predicting Chad wouldn't last two years as a crew chief, and that was BEFORE he had the pressure to be on top every year. The other dirty little secret was that Ray and Jeff were not getting along near as well as they had, for various reasons. Unfortunately for the people that were huge fans of the duo (myself included) I think that marriage (much like both Jeff's and Ray's) had pretty much run its course.
See Cole Pearn and Kirk ShelmerdineThe biggest reason the answer is no is because Ray was burnt out on being a crew chief and wasn't going to do it much longer, whether he stayed at HMS or not. What made Chad Knaus what he was is that he kept the fire burning much longer than most. You can't do what Ray and Chad did year after year without being totally consumed by the task at hand. Most people never have that, and most of the ones that do burn out fairly quickly.
Fixed.There was a steep falloff in performance after Evernham left. Gordon had like 49 wins before the start of 2000. His stats in the 90's are on par with prime Richard Petty. He was on pace to become the all-time greatest driver in this sport. His decline is somewhat baffling, but it aligns with Evernham leaving him.
We've seen how important it is to have a good crew chief. Does he get 7 championships if Evernham stays? I'd say more like 10. That's how good they were together.
IMO the box is too tight now for that to happenI think the second half of the 90's was just a freak of nature. I don't think ANYBODY is going to go 7,10,10,13,9* in the win column over a five year stretch EVER again, and it was a standard set SO HIGH, even Ray and Jeff couldn't have kept that going much longer.
Thats interesting in itself. Bill's team wasnt doing well, where would have ended up. I remember reading around that time (99-2000ish) that he had a chance to go to Roush before Evernham came in with the offer of buying his team and running Dodges?No, and Bill Elliotts last win would of been in 1994.
7, 10, 10, 13, 7, not nine..I think the second half of the 90's was just a freak of nature. I don't think ANYBODY is going to go 7,10,10,13,9* in the win column over a five year stretch EVER again, and it was a standard set SO HIGH, even Ray and Jeff couldn't have kept that going much longer.
I think the second half of the 90's was just a freak of nature. I don't think ANYBODY is going to go 7,10,10,13,9* in the win column over a five year stretch EVER again, and it was a standard set SO HIGH, even Ray and Jeff couldn't have kept that going much longer.
This would’ve been an inevitable clash and I think this is the first direct acknowledgment that the 48 would’ve had something to say about this. Jimmie debuted in 2002, right after Gordon’s last title.No because Jimmie Johnson existed
Yes and he'd be 7 times poorerWould Jeff Gordon Have Won 7 Championships If He Had Remained Married To Brooke Sealey?
It also burnt out. It's really tough to know. Because if Ray sticks around, we also assume he keeps his fire, doesn't burn out, that relationship doesn't become abrasive.It could've happened deep into the 2000s though. Especially if the Chase wasn't implemented. But in the late-90s, the only super-consistent threat to Gordon was 1990 series champion Mark Martin. (People really forget how freaking consistent that guy was.)
Tony Stewart and Jimmie Johnson were always going to reduce Gordon's dominance, but to what degree, who knows? That Gordon/Evernham combo was just lethal.
This.I would've liked to have seen Gordon and Evernham together during the Chase era. I think Ray would've understood what Chad did about using the summer months to experiment and prepare the car for The Chase. Gordon wins at least one of the five that Jimmie won in a row, and Jimmie isn't a 7-time champion with Gordon and Evernham together.
I think Jeff likely retires as a 6-time champion. Johnson gets 5-6 championships in this scenario. The story of Jeff Gordon in the 2000s is a lot different if Evernham decides to remain a crew chief.
Not so sure. Because again, we are assuming that the human element is a non - factor. In order for them to keep up, they'd need to increase their workload. As good as Jimmie was, and as smart as Chad was, what made them really dominant was their work ethic, and how bad/hungry they were. They brought a combination of talent, leadership hunger, drive, work ethic and effort that didn't exist in tbe sport.I would've liked to have seen Gordon and Evernham together during the Chase era. I think Ray would've understood what Chad did about using the summer months to experiment and prepare the car for The Chase. Gordon wins at least one of the five that Jimmie won in a row, and Jimmie isn't a 7-time champion with Gordon and Evernham together.
I think Jeff likely retires as a 6-time champion. Johnson gets 5-6 championships in this scenario. The story of Jeff Gordon in the 2000s is a lot different if Evernham decides to remain a crew chief.
10 championship? Maybe if nothing changed in the 2000s but the competition was so much improved in the 2000s, he wasn't up against JJ and Stewart in the 90s. There was no Kyle Busch or Denny Hamlin or Carl Edwards. The late 90s didn't have much competition. Dale Sr was passed his prime, as were Wallace and Elliot. Who was he racing that was in their prime? Jeff Burton? The competition just wasn't there.Like I said early in this thread, I think he wins at least 10. Some people don't realize how historic they were together.
Let's put it this way. During their tenure, they won 3 championships & 49 races. Those are literally Tony Stewart's stats for his whole career, & Stewart is considered a top 10 driver of all time.
Hindsight is 20/20. There are many factors to consider. That said, Jeff Gordon dragging Steve LeTarte to deep playoff runs is all you need to know.
Rose colored glasses, imo.Like I said early in this thread, I think he wins at least 10. Some people don't realize how historic they were together.
Let's put it this way. During their tenure, they won 3 championships & 49 races. Those are literally Tony Stewart's stats for his whole career, & Stewart is considered a top 10 driver of all time.
Hindsight is 20/20. There are many factors to consider. That said, Jeff Gordon dragging Steve LeTarte to deep playoff runs is all you need to know.
The biggest indicator that Gordon's fall off wasn't JUST losing Ray, but rather, an improvement in talent and funded teams is this...10 championship? Maybe if nothing changed in the 2000s but the competition was so much improved in the 2000s, he wasn't up against JJ and Stewart in the 90s. There was no Kyle Busch or Denny Hamlin or Carl Edwards. The late 90s didn't have much competition. Dale Sr was passed his prime, as were Wallace and Elliot. Who was he racing that was in their prime? Jeff Burton? The competition just wasn't there.
You're implying that Gordon had no competition in the 90's. That's debatable. He destroyed Dale Earnhardt, who was coming off a few titles in the early 90's. Maybe Earnhardt wasn't in his prime, but his stats show that he was still a high caliber driver.More talented drivers and better funded teams showed up.