Xfinity Restrictor Plates confirmed @ Indy and beyond..... probably to Cup too

I'm curious to know who these folks are within NASCAR that come up with these ideas, and more importantly, who gives them the approval? Also who do they consult with? Which drivers and engineers are they talking to before reaching a decision?
 
Nascar just released the new aeropackage for 2018 cup race at Indy

kentucky-speedway-show-me-the-car-large-8.jpg
 
What's next? Restrictor plates at Sonoma where the cars reach a top speed of 18 mph in the draft? That might not actually be a bad idea...NASCAR could hire Usain Bolt to enter the race on foot and see if he can beat everyone to the finish. Monster Energy would be all over that. Maybe let some Monster girls enter the race too.
 
RacerrecaR said:
What's next? Restrictor plates at Sonoma where the cars reach a top speed of 18 mph in the draft? That might not actually be a bad idea...NASCAR could hire Usain Bolt to enter the race on foot and see if he can beat everyone to the finish. Monster Energy would be all over that. Maybe let some Monster girls enter the race too.
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Maybe a "push to pass" button and a DRS zone. Let's throw everything at the wall and see what sticks. That's what NASCAR seems to be doing anyway. :angry:
 
Acs said:
Michigan is interesting, that's one place where plates will probably work as intended and create pack racing. They are close to wide open most of the lap as is.
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With current low downforce, Michigan is not close to wide open. Last year in cup cars, straightaway terminal speed was 215 or more, then down to 175 or so in the corners. Maybe Nascar plans to use high downforce with the plates? No one has given any details.

I think your comments about the objective at Indy being IndyCar style draft & slingshot is probably correct. Talladega style pack racing won't happen at Indy because the low banking will not permit sustained full throttle running. With restrictor plates and high drag, the goal may be to create the exact opposite of "Clean Air Is King."

If the leader has the DISADVANTAGE of higher drag, and the trailing car has less drag because of dirty air, there may be lots of passing. IMO that is not proper racing. The objective in racing should be to get to the front.
 
LewTheShoe said:
If the leader has the DISADVANTAGE of higher drag, and the trailing car has less drag because of dirty air, there may be lots of passing. IMO that is not proper racing. The objective in racing should be to get to the front.
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Very well said, I think that hits the nail on the head. Given your knowledge of this, frankly much greater than mine, and your comments on the problems with current IndyCar racing, I'm curious how you seem to tolerate plate racing at all?
 
They ****** it all up by not going back to ORP. The aura there the night before the 400 used to be electric. Now they race at the giant Indycar track where you can see about 1/4 of the racing surface, because no doubt, any cool area to sit other than turn one is closed off due to the fact that there are 3,000 fuggin people in attendance.


I know how to fix this, add restrictor plates!

You know what else we should do! Add plates at all the tracks 2 miles and over!


We are going to be running plates at Sonoma and WG(the only road courses on the schedule, still) in ten years because hell, there isn't enough side by side racing!

Alright, in all seriousness, if what they are going for is the recent Indy 500's, or Indy @ Fontana, it's commendable but completely unnecessary. They're doing fine. Other than not running the Indy road course....
 
gnomesayin said:
Very well said, I think that hits the nail on the head. Given your knowledge of this, frankly much greater than mine, and your comments on the problems with current IndyCar racing, I'm curious how you seem to tolerate plate racing at all?
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If I were the King of Nascar, there would be just one plate race, the Daytona 500, and that only in deference to tradition. The July race would run on the Daytona road course. The two Talladega dates would transfer to Montreal and Mexico City.

Despite all that, I realize Daytona and Talladega plate races are a fundamental component of the DNA of Nascar. They will carry on.

And I have gained a measure of respect for plate racing in the last few years, as passing has become more difficult. I don't know what's changed, or exactly when, but these races have become a constant struggle for track position that starts on lap 1 and ends with the checkered flag. Not all participate in the fight, but the best plate racers, those who plan to win, do participate.

I guess the post tandem rules are responsible. The absurdity of leading the race, then falling to 30th a lap later, then leading again two laps later... and repeating that cycle over and over again... just doesn't happen. Thankfully.

I am opposed to any attempt to create more pack racing at Indy or other tracks. And I am all about creating races that are won by merit. A race where the leader is penalized by an aero disadvantage is not a meritocracy.
 
Acs said:
I don't get this level of extreme hate. Nobody has any idea how this will work, stop the bitching until we see the results. Or is this just yet another case of people seeing "Restrictor plates?!?!? Hurrr durrr not real racing Daytona sux omg go to IRP". Just like when we get a legit caution in a race from someone pounding the wall and the race thread blows up with "OMG illegitimate debris BS brian france sucks for interrupting my 180 lap green flag nap 4 second leads are real racing". Restrictor plates, caution, I think those are three words that just trigger delusional levels of hate within a small section of fans. I wonder what else will trigger them? Guess what, IRP isn't happening, and plate racing is popular, get over it.
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Plate racing is the worst thing to happen to Nascar, so yeh the level of hate is huge and justifiably so.
 
Acs said:
I actually don't think it is, at least for Pocono and Indy. If they want dega style side-by-side pack racing this will fail miserably. After seeing the 2015 experiment with the high-drag package I think they are more going for indycar style racing at these tracks. Single-file, yes, but the trailing car gets a huge tow down the long straights making passing the leader much easier. Whether plates actually make that happen, I don't know, but I doubt it.

Michigan, however, will almost certainly be a mini Daytona with plates.
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It will be just like Daytona, which sucks!
 
If the plate package is somewhat similar or close to what Trucks run at Michigan (not plates, but that type of racing), I wouldn't mind it. I have no faith in that type of racing.
 
Mopardh9 said:
Plate racing is the worst thing to happen to Nascar, so yeh the level of hate is huge and justifiably so.
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To each their own but I can't get enough of it. It's thrilling and unreal how they're able to run so close for hundreds of miles. IMO that's what NASCAR so great, the different types of disciplines you have to be good at in order to win
 
Mispeedway15 said:
To each their own but I can't get enough of it. It's thrilling and unreal how they're able to run so close for hundreds of miles. IMO that's what NASCAR so great, the different types of disciplines you have to be good at in order to win
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Dang straight! It's all good. Diversity makes this sport great IMO. Different configurations require different skill sets. There's room for all of it.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Dang straight! It's all good. Diversity makes this sport great IMO. Different configurations require different skill sets. There's room for all of it.
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That's really where I am at. I need the variety. Its a loooong season.
I always keep the calendar clear for the plate races.
Where else can you see 40 Blue Angels fly together?
 
Blah...another gimmick to band aid the previous gimmick that band aided the previous gimmick. IMO Pocono is a sneaky good race each year, as well as I enjoy both Michigan races. Indy I usually get a good nap, but that's what DVR is for. I understand the racing there is a snooze fest but restrictor plates will make passing even more rare there. Brian France should just reveal himself as Vince McMahon already...
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
IDK how you guys can hate things as hate and jealousy have to be the 2 biggest wasted emotions!!! I am good with matching car to track or track to car as long as they can have some interesting tracks with a car that is not heavily aero dependent. With plates coming to non plate tracks I suppose Nascar is throwing in the towel and has decided to keep the cars artificially glued together.
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That's why I've been trying to limit my use of the word for the last several years, trying to save it for things I actively, truly hate. Plate racing is one of the few items on the list. Fortunately, it doesn't take up much of my time. If it expand to 9 races, it won't take up any of my time.
 
Greg said:
One other thing ,RP racing at Indianapolis will be inheritly more dangerous.

First the fans: An RP pack of cars at Indianapolis will be heading into corners, all 4 of them bookending those 5/8th mile short chutes. They will be far more tighter and treacherous than the apexes on the front straights at Talladega and Daytona.

In spite of those apexes being softer and more like a 45 degree turn, verses an Indianapolis 90°, several cars have been hooked and yawed into flight.
That problem will intensify exponentially at Indianapolis.
-Each corner is more dangerous, with four a lap verses one at the other RPs.
Barring cautions, the racing hook and yaw opportunities at Talladega are 188 per race, 200 at Daytona, and 640 per race at Indianapolis.
And again those corners will be much tighter and subjected to demands of momentum racing. The Accordion effect will be far more unforgiving.

I sincerely hope they will at least restrict and close off those bookending bleachers and remove the soft landing zones. They cant fill them up anyway, just keep all fans near the flag. To do otherwise would be criminal negligence.

And the drivers will definitely be more at risk verses those catch fence cables. Just take a look at the Austin Dillion flip at Daytona a few years ago.
When one of those cars gets inverted enough to hit at the wrong angle, no COT technology, HANS, ot Lajoie seat will save a driver verses the shredding.
It will be some horrendous decapitation, mandated by idiots.

Next time Nascar brags about caring about safety and the innovations, I hope folks remember the foolishness of this choice. There are so many available tracks for better racing, and most definitely safer.

I like the real native danger of speed, not this type of crap.
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I don't see any of this turning into a real, 'on track' problem.

They won't be up to full speed when they hit turn 1, and won't get through it without a caution. After that, it will just be a continuous series of attempted restarts.

Should they ever get past turn 2, they'll wreck going into 3. They'll be travelling faster then but it won't matter if they get airborne in that accident, since no one sits down there anyway.

See? No problem! :rolleyes:
 
ChexOrWrex said:
To be fair, gravity is a theory.
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No, evolution is a theory. Gravity is a law. As copied from Wikipedia, remembered from my old physics class, and quoted by "Weird Al" in the song "My Pancreas",

8c6ee5510ba3c7d6664775c0e76b53e72468303a

where:

  • F is the force between the masses;
  • G is the gravitational constant (6.674×10−11 N · (m/kg)2);
  • m1 is the first mass;
  • m2 is the second mass;
  • r is the distance between the centers of the masses.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I don't see any of this turning into a real, 'on track' problem.

They won't be up to full speed when they hit turn 1, and won't get through it without a caution. After that, it will just be a continuous series of attempted restarts.

Should they ever get past turn 2, they'll wreck going into 3. They'll be travelling faster then but it won't matter if they get airborne in that accident, since no one sits down there anyway.

See? No problem! :rolleyes:
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Friggin' AWESOME!!
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Nascar just released the new aeropackage for 2018 cup race at Indy

kentucky-speedway-show-me-the-car-large-8.jpg
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Plenty of room for improvement. I'd start with a couple of hot rod-style scoops sticking out of the hood. Maybe move the radiator to the back and let air in through louvers in the doors; keep the front open to cool the brakes. Add a spoiler between the roof fins. Oh, and big honkin' truck mirrors on each door. Big chrome hood ornaments of the manufacturer logos (competitive advantage to Toyota's open logo ;)).
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I don't see any of this turning into a real, 'on track' problem.

They won't be up to full speed when they hit turn 1, and won't get through it without a caution. After that, it will just be a continuous series of attempted restarts.

Should they ever get past turn 2, they'll wreck going into 3. They'll be travelling faster then but it won't matter if they get airborne in that accident, since no one sits down there anyway.

See? No problem! :rolleyes:
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You may be right, but if they ever achieve the goal of pack racing there, I think my risk post is applicable
 
This is plain disappointing and I cannot understand the logic. Instead of moving too a track with much better racing they implement mechanical gimmicks to improve racing at a "big purse" track. It cannot be due to attendance because at the rate they are removing seats, IRP will have the same capacity as most cup 1.5ers.

But what my naïve mind has the most trouble with is why almost $200MM is being invested into PIR which is a perfectly good track vs. using that money to build an infrastructure at an attractive short track or road course. Seems wasteful.
 
Lucas Oil Raceway or IRP has 25K less seats than Homestead where the darn championship is held and I realize it is Miami market vs. Indianapolis.
 
Snappy D said:
Blah...another gimmick to band aid the previous gimmick that band aided the previous gimmick. IMO Pocono is a sneaky good race each year, as well as I enjoy both Michigan races. Indy I usually get a good nap, but that's what DVR is for. I understand the racing there is a snooze fest but restrictor plates will make passing even more rare there. Brian France should just reveal himself as Vince McMahon already...
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I totally agree with everything you just said, especially the band aid part, I've been saying that for years. Nascar continues to put band aids on a wound that has been bleeding out for years.
 
Mopardh9 said:
so it sells out... the racing still sucks!
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Unfortunately, there's no way to please everyone. I'm a big fan of the four restrictor plate races that we have but I'm not interested in seeing that transitioned over to any other tracks. I don't understand the thought process behind doing so.

Regardless of what any of us want, this is apparently going to happen. I only hope that I'm shocked by it success.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Unfortunately, there's no way to please everyone. I'm a big fan of the four restrictor plate races that we have but I'm not interested in seeing that transitioned over to any other tracks. I don't understand the thought process behind doing so.

Regardless of what any of us want, this is apparently going to happen. I only hope that I'm shocked by it success.
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I get that... I get that people like tight racing, pack type racing because it is exciting ....whatever, but in my racing heritage I'm a purist at heart and plate racing is artificial....manufactured drama.
 
Mopardh9 said:
I get that... I get that people like tight racing, pack type racing because it is exciting ....whatever, but in my racing heritage I'm a purist at heart and plate racing is artificial....manufactured drama.
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Go back to why we have plate racing from the get go. I will never forget watching Bobby Allison
take down the fence and almost in the stands at Dega. I was horrified , thinking their were deaths
involved with that. NASCAR decided they had to do something. They did not come up with the
plate as a gimmick at all. It was a safety issue ,primarily for the fans sake. The cars were going
faster and faster every year. With todays aero and technology I bet the cars would be doing
an average lap at Day and Dega in the high 220's which is cool but not cool when they take off
in the fence. Now hindsight, it has its pros and cons .

I know most of you all know all this, but just know it was not originally conceived as a gimmick at all.

Now with the announcement of Indy and elsewhere, that would be to make the racing more
interesting. If you want to call that a gimmick, I could go along with. But if I am entertained more, I am good with it.
 
Hotrod said:
Go back to why we have plate racing from the get go. I will never forget watching Bobby Allison
take down the fence and almost in the stands at Dega. I was horrified , thinking their were deaths
involved with that. NASCAR decided they had to do something. They did not come up with the
plate as a gimmick at all. It was a safety issue ,primarily for the fans sake. The cars were going
faster and faster every year. With todays aero and technology I bet the cars would be doing
an average lap at Day and Dega in the high 220's which is cool but not cool when they take off
in the fence. Now hindsight, it has its pros and cons .

I know most of you all know all this, but just know it was not originally conceived as a gimmick at all.
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Yeh and that fact....adding plates stopped them from going in to the stands right??? LMAO...it was a poorly thought out solution by Nascar from the get go, they F'd up and have been scrambling ever since to fix the issue. Thirty years of this...and it gets worse every year, millions of dollars of equipment get torn up in at least one huge wreck at Dega and Daytona putting drivers safety and their psyches at risk. I call that racing, yep....great stuff!
 
Well, back in the 80's that's the best they could come up with without closing the track.
NASCAR fans had huge appetites for Day and Dega so that was not an option. Really
no other option but to slow them down which has given way to the big one. As far as
plate cars in the fence , and can only think of two, Edwards at Dega, Dillon at Daytona.
The others did not have plates.

My only point I am making is that it originally was not put in place to make pack racing
like the internet is trying to make us think.
 
They've repaved the track at least twice since plates were introduced. Those were opportunities to reduce the banking to levels suitable to the speeds of modern race cars. Reduce the banking to a degree where drivers have to use the brakes again and can't just mat the pedal for 200 laps. The fan safety problem will drop to levels similar to other tracks.

Assuming they want to get rid of plates....

There is no fan safety issue at Indianapolis, Michican, or Pocono that could be remedied by the use of restrictor plates. If there is no fan safety issue, what's the justification for doing this? At least the Loudon race was justified as a misguided knee-jerk reaction to a perceived driver safety issue.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
They've repaved the track at least twice since plates were introduced. Those were opportunities to reduce the banking to levels suitable to the speeds of modern race cars. Reduce the banking to a degree where drivers have to use the brakes again and can't just mat the pedal for 200 laps. The fan safety problem will drop to levels similar to other tracks.

Assuming they want to get rid of plates....
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I'm thinking with the size of those tracks, a plateless car would certainly have to reduce speed to head into and through a corner but that's only because they are going to be hauling a$$ down those long straightaways into them. I don't think reduced banking at either of those two tracks will reduce the possibility of a car taking flight. Heck, look at what these cars are doing into turn #1 & #3 @ Michigan. They are going every bit as fast as a car can currently run at either restrictor plate track. A car slideways and up into the fence at that track simply hasn't happened..... yet.
 
Hotrod said:
Well, back in the 80's that's the best they could come up with without closing the track.
NASCAR fans had huge appetites for Day and Dega so that was not an option. Really
no other option but to slow them down which has given way to the big one. As far as
plate cars in the fence , and can only think of two, Edwards at Dega, Dillon at Daytona.
The others did not have plates.

My only point I am making is that it originally was not put in place to make pack racing
like the internet is trying to make us think.
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Nascar ignored the other option....smaller displacement engines with less horsepower, but with throttle response so the cars could get away from each other. They have been ignoring this for years, less horse power will equate to less speed. Keeping the speeds down around 185-190 range would be plenty fast enough. The plates have not stopped the cars from flying into the stands...see Daytona wreck a few years back, actually there probably are at least 4 I can think of, maybe more. Nascar used a band aid approach to the problem, typical of the powers to be to do this.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
They've repaved the track at least twice since plates were introduced. Those were opportunities to reduce the banking to levels suitable to the speeds of modern race cars. Reduce the banking to a degree where drivers have to use the brakes again and can't just mat the pedal for 200 laps. The fan safety problem will drop to levels similar to other tracks.

Assuming they want to get rid of plates....

There is no fan safety issue at Indianapolis, Michican, or Pocono that could be remedied by the use of restrictor plates. If there is no fan safety issue, what's the justification for doing this? At least the Loudon race was justified as a misguided knee-jerk reaction to a perceived driver safety issue.
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That's a great point. You know back in the late 50's no one had any idea that cars would ever be in the 200's mphs.
What were they, at the beginning, 160's? I bet they could see a car getting up to 180mph in the future but I bet not in the
200's.

I acknowledged that there are no safety issues being addressed for this change but to just spice up things. Personally I hope
its more successful than the lower downforce changes which has only loosened them up a bit.
 
So much self taught physics around here. That is nearly all universally wrong.
 
Mopardh9 said:
Nascar ignored the other option....smaller displacement engines with less horsepower, but with throttle response so the cars could get away from each other. They have been ignoring this for years, less horse power will equate to less speed. Keeping the speeds down around 185-190 range would be plenty fast enough. The plates have not stopped the cars from flying into the stands...see Daytona wreck a few years back, actually there probably are at least 4 I can think of, maybe more. Nascar used a band aid approach to the problem, typical of the powers to be to do this.
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I know I've had this conversation before but if a car can travel around these two tracks, foot to the floor, @ 190, how can you possibly have throttle response when there's not more throttle to press? I am still thoroughly confused by this.
 
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