Xfinity Restrictor Plates confirmed @ Indy and beyond..... probably to Cup too

dpkimmel2001 said:
I know I've had this conversation before but if a car can travel around these two tracks, foot to the floor, @ 190, how can you possibly have throttle response when there's not more throttle to press? I am still thoroughly confused by this.
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You are not confused, DPK. Mr. Mopar is still wrong in exactly the same way as last week when he posted the same gibberish.
 
My memory must be skewed but I remember Michigan as being one of the three plate tracks back in the day, and the plate was later dropped.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I'm thinking with the size of those tracks, a plateless car would certainly have to reduce speed to head into and through a corner but that's only because they are going to be hauling a$$ down those long straightaways into them. I don't think reduced banking at either of those two tracks will reduce the possibility of a car taking flight. Heck, look at what these cars are doing into turn #1 & #3 @ Michigan. They are going every bit as fast as a car can currently run at either restrictor plate track. A car slideways and up into the fence at that track simply hasn't happened..... yet.
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Same solution.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I know I've had this conversation before but if a car can travel around these two tracks, foot to the floor, @ 190, how can you possibly have throttle response when there's not more throttle to press? I am still thoroughly confused by this.
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They'd have room for throttle response coming off the corners if they had to lift going into the corners.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Right, but that is not the scenario laid out. The scenario he put forth was cars limited to 185 mph by low horsepower. If this was the deal, there would be no lifting.
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dpkimmel2001 said:
That's the problem. They can handle the entire track at that speed. There'd be no lifting in the corners. There'd be no need.
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My mistake. Too many threads for me to keep up with today.
 
You guys realize there's only one groove at Indy right? Unlike Daytona and Talladega where you can run the outside. This will suck. A lot.
 
Larsonfan1995 said:
You guys realize there's only one groove at Indy right? Unlike Daytona and Talladega where you can run the outside. This will suck. A lot.
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And the plot thickens. They may hang out 2x2 for a lap or 2, then the ones with the
messed up britches will fall back. Already looking forward to Xfinity Indy practice.

Last year at the Xfinity Indy race they had 2 cautions and 2 lead changes. Pretty sure
I got a good hour nap in on that one.
 
Mopardh9 said:
Yeh and that fact....adding plates stopped them from going in to the stands right??? LMAO...it was a poorly thought out solution by Nascar from the get go, they F'd up and have been scrambling ever since to fix the issue. Thirty years of this...and it gets worse every year, millions of dollars of equipment get torn up in at least one huge wreck at Dega and Daytona putting drivers safety and their psyches at risk. I call that racing, yep....great stuff!
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You are right as plates should have been only used as a stop gap until a proper solution could be found. They are taking the lazy man's way out again by adding plates to tracks in hopes of having 400 lap parades that some people really enjoy.
 
Hotrod said:
Well, back in the 80's that's the best they could come up with without closing the track.
NASCAR fans had huge appetites for Day and Dega so that was not an option. Really
no other option but to slow them down which has given way to the big one. As far as
plate cars in the fence , and can only think of two, Edwards at Dega, Dillon at Daytona.
The others did not have plates.

My only point I am making is that it originally was not put in place to make pack racing
like the internet is trying to make us think.
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I agree but instead but they should have come up with something better or raced elsewhere if they could not figure it out, IMO.
 
It's really very easy for social media keyboard warriors to say, "Nascar should have called in the bulldozers to demolish Daytona and Talladega." A few simple keystrokes, and no consequences. I said the same last night... if I ruled Nascar, the Talladega dates would move to Montreal and Mexico City. But of course it's a different deal in the Real World.
 
LewTheShoe said:
It's really very easy for social media keyboard warriors to say, "Nascar should have called in the bulldozers to demolish Daytona and Talladega." A few simple keystrokes, and no consequences. I said the same last night... if I ruled Nascar, the Talladega dates would move to Montreal and Mexico City. But of course it's a different deal in the Real World.
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A handful of us like Daytona and Talladega........ I actually think a lot more like it but are afraid to admit it because of being chastised......
 
kymartin6 said:
A handful of us like Daytona and Talladega........ I actually think a lot more like it but are afraid to admit it because of being chastised......
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I love it for the suspense, but hate it for the wrecks. In an ideal world I wish 1 race at each track every year was run with plates and 1 race run without plates.
 
kymartin6 said:
A handful of us like Daytona and Talladega........ I actually think a lot more like it but are afraid to admit it because of being chastised......
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It's a completely unique and different style of racing with it's own ace drivers and strong teams. Just like road racing, just like short track racing, and hopefully a completely new style like they are trying to do with Indy and Pocono. More variety is great, I love it. It's the National Association of Stock Car Auto Racing, emphasis on the type of vehicle, not the National Association of Short Track Auto Racing, emphasis on the type of race. Hell, I'd love to see these cars light up a drag strip once a year. And if you think other sports don't do this, think again. Golf, a sport with many similarities to NASCAR, has stroke play and match play tournaments, team play and individual.


RacerrecaR said:
I love it for the suspense, but hate it for the wrecks.
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I agree with this and I think last year's fall Talladega race was the ideal plate race.
 
RacerrecaR said:
I love it for the suspense, but hate it for the wrecks. In an ideal world I wish 1 race at each track every year was run with plates and 1 race run without plates.
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I don't watch it for the wrecks either...... I love it for the chess play and to see the finesse of all the drivers to run inches apart without wrecking....... Amazing stuff.....

I also agree about the non-plate deal...... I just worry about the strength of the catch fence.......
 
Nate Ryan from NBC has more on this:

Sounds like this could be more than just plates, we could see a different Aero package in conjunction, but since we've heard nothing about further changes for xfinity in 2017 i'd guess it wouldn't be until 2018. I think this is a much better solution than plates alone. As @29-4 suggested, they should bring back the wickerbill package from 2001 so that they can punch a bigger hole in the air without the problems of using a big downforce-generating spoiler like in 2015.

Also, a lot of NASCAR media seem to think that if they can't find a way to put on good racing at Indy, that the Brickyard 400 goes away after the track contracts run out in 2020. This could be their last hurrah, for cup as well as xfinity. In fact, this really doesn't seem to have anything to do with the xfinity series.
 
Acs said:
I agree with this and I think last year's fall Talladega race was the ideal plate race.
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I was there for that and I can remember I was glad later in the race
when they got single file . I could let my nerves relax.
 
Hotrod said:
I was there for that and I can remember I was glad later in the race
when they got single file . I could let my nerves relax.
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I was 9 miller lite's deep in grief by that point after Kes blew up.
 
Acs said:
I was 9 miller lite's deep in grief by that point after Kes blew up.
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Oh goodness. Sorry. I am going back for the spring race this year.
Finally figured out a good section to sit in , so we will go back there again.
 
Acs said:
It's a completely unique and different style of racing with it's own ace drivers and strong teams. Just like road racing, just like short track racing, and hopefully a completely new style like they are trying to do with Indy and Pocono. More variety is great, I love it. It's the National Association of Stock Car Auto Racing, emphasis on the type of vehicle, not the National Association of Short Track Auto Racing, emphasis on the type of race. Hell, I'd love to see these cars light up a drag strip once a year. And if you think other sports don't do this, think again. Golf, a sport with many similarities to NASCAR, has stroke play and match play tournaments, team play and individual.



I agree with this and I think last year's fall Talladega race was the ideal plate race.
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Pikes Peak Hill Climb was on the Indy car schedule back in the day
 
kymartin6 said:
I also agree about the non-plate deal...... I just worry about the strength of the catch fence.......
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There's a few options for non-plate races, but they are all likely at least a few years away:

1. Broadcast those 2 races on Pay-Per-View (no fans in the stands). Fan safety would not be an issue and it would generate additional TV revenue for the sport. Not to mention the fact it would be advertised as must-watch TV much like the big boxing matches even casual fans tune into. Even if it's not a Pay-Per-View event there would most certainly be a huge spike in TV ratings.

2. Only sell tickets in the upper sections.

3. Replace the catch fence with something like Lexan plastic. (Something like this WILL happen eventually at every track...mark my words).

Additionally, I'm not sure if these cars are safe enough for non-catch fence wrecks if the top speeds will be nearing 250mph in the draft. Non-plate races are fun to think about and I think it should be seriously considered for the future, but now is not the time. Major advancements in car & track safety need to be made before it becomes a reality.
 
LewTheShoe said:
You are not confused, DPK. Mr. Mopar is still wrong in exactly the same way as last week when he posted the same gibberish.
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If you have throttle response and have to lift in the corner how is that gibberish, what did they do back in the 60's and 70s? They lifted in the corners!
 
You young guns, watch a race from the early 70s at Daytona, that is the way the racing should be at this track and at Dega. There is no reason why todays' car can not be made to do the same thing as those cars other than the fact that Nascar wants manufactured drama with the F'ing plates. They want fans to anticipate that big one, the build up to it. Run around for 150 laps ...ho hum, then it is go time and the slightest mistake results in a 15 car pile up taking out a bunch of contenders. By adding the stage BS, all that does is add more manufactured drama for more chances for multi car pile ups. I don't call this racing, I hardly watch these two races anymore and it's sucks because I used to love the kick off to the season with Daytona. Old Dale must be pissing himself laughing at the way Nascar has managed to f"up the sport he loved.
 
This has gone so far off topic but what the hell.

It is very difficult for me to get interested in a style of racing where the driver has so much less control over their own destiny than every other track out there. The field is covered by a blanket - if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time you're screwed. Maybe that is somewhat of a factor at a place like Martinsville or Bristol but much less of one. At a given plate race there's probably anywhere from 5-15 cars wrecked out entirely and many more that are affected by crash damage.
The driver can't get away from the rest of the field, and in fact is disadvantaged when they pull out too much of a lead. You're in the wrong line when one gets backed up. You're dependent on so many others around you - you pull out to try to make a move to the front, no one goes with you, and you're toast. How many times does this happen during the closing stretch of a plate race? Too often, I think.

I think I would enjoy it more if there were smaller packs that could break apart with more slingshots and maybe even a little bit of lifting going into and through the corners. I suppose side drafting is a bit of an art but in general I think plate racing leads way too much up to chance and lacks so many other skills that are usually considered essential in stock car racing.
 
FLRacingFan said:
This has gone so far off topic but what the hell.

It is very difficult for me to get interested in a style of racing where the driver has so much less control over their own destiny than every other track out there. The field is covered by a blanket - if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time you're screwed. Maybe that is somewhat of a factor at a place like Martinsville or Bristol but much less of one. At a given plate race there's probably anywhere from 5-15 cars wrecked out entirely and many more that are affected by crash damage.
The driver can't get away from the rest of the field, and in fact is disadvantaged when they pull out too much of a lead. You're in the wrong line when one gets backed up. You're dependent on so many others around you - you pull out to try to make a move to the front, no one goes with you, and you're toast. How many times does this happen during the closing stretch of a plate race? Too often, I think.

I think I would enjoy it more if there were smaller packs that could break apart with more slingshots and maybe even a little bit of lifting going into and through the corners. I suppose side drafting is a bit of an art but in general I think plate racing leads way too much up to chance and lacks so many other skills that are usually considered essential in stock car racing.
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Like I said....look at a race from the early 70s and you will see just what you mentioned. Configure the cars of today to do that and ....bingo you will have good racing at Daytona again.
 
LewTheShoe said:
It's really very easy for social media keyboard warriors to say, "Nascar should have called in the bulldozers to demolish Daytona and Talladega." A few simple keystrokes, and no consequences. I said the same last night... if I ruled Nascar, the Talladega dates would move to Montreal and Mexico City. But of course it's a different deal in the Real World.
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What is the real world? Sit on your hands while half your customers give you the middle finger? In the grand scheme of things it would have been much wiser to spend money to do things right instead of being in reactionary mode and tossing spaghetti against the ceiling hoping something sticks. JMO.
 
kymartin6 said:
I don't watch it for the wrecks either...... I love it for the chess play and to see the finesse of all the drivers to run inches apart without wrecking....... Amazing stuff.....

I also agree about the non-plate deal...... I just worry about the strength of the catch fence.......
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I would prefer if the plate races were exhibition races.
 
FLRacingFan said:
This has gone so far off topic but what the hell.

It is very difficult for me to get interested in a style of racing where the driver has so much less control over their own destiny than every other track out there. The field is covered by a blanket - if you're in the wrong place at the wrong time you're screwed. Maybe that is somewhat of a factor at a place like Martinsville or Bristol but much less of one. At a given plate race there's probably anywhere from 5-15 cars wrecked out entirely and many more that are affected by crash damage.
The driver can't get away from the rest of the field, and in fact is disadvantaged when they pull out too much of a lead. You're in the wrong line when one gets backed up. You're dependent on so many others around you - you pull out to try to make a move to the front, no one goes with you, and you're toast. How many times does this happen during the closing stretch of a plate race? Too often, I think.

I think I would enjoy it more if there were smaller packs that could break apart with more slingshots and maybe even a little bit of lifting going into and through the corners. I suppose side drafting is a bit of an art but in general I think plate racing leads way too much up to chance and lacks so many other skills that are usually considered essential in stock car racing.
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Very well said.
 
I don't like this at all. All the cars running the same speed at a single groove track doesn't seem exciting. The fans don't even want any racing at Indy. I wish NASCAR would just move the race to Iowa and be done with it.
 
kymartin6 said:
I don't watch it for the wrecks either...... I love it for the chess play and to see the finesse of all the drivers to run inches apart without wrecking....... Amazing stuff.....
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The problem is, they can't do that for the entire race. A mistake is inevitable, and the bunched-up field results in more cars being damaged than would be for the same mistake at an unrestricted track.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
and the bunched-up field results in more cars being damaged than would be for the same mistake at an unrestricted track.
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Thinkin' that's the whole idea......


Always AWESOME 'chess play' goin' on with the plate shows. Can't figure if it's one player against thirty-eight or thirty-nine others or all of 'em playin' on one board like real chess. But, it don't matter - c'mon BIG One!
 
Currently, with the AWESOME 5 Minute Rule to keep cars from dripping parts all around the track, we’re able to concentrate to a greater extent on an individual car because there are fewer ‘n fewer on the track.

Plate shows are just wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy cool!
 
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