Dover --- RACE thread

DaBiff1618 said:
Larson to me is Kasey Kahne 2.0, pretty good driver but not great and even their career trajectories have been pretty much identical. Kahne did step up and win 6 races his third year so there's that lol. But overall I think they're yhe sake. Terribly inconsistent but then one race they'll be so good you think they can beat anyone. Then next race it's back to 20th lol
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Kahne was in better equipment. Bill Elliott won races in Evernnham cars and Jeremy Mayfield was rock solid in them too.

Ganassi hasn't been very good over the past few years. Matt McCall and Chad Johnston are good crew chiefs, Jamie McMurray and Kyle Larson are good drives, but the equipment doesn't match their talent.

DaBiff1618 said:
Stats are the only way to compare unless we're having a pissing contest. My point is that there careers are very comparable, and at the 3 year mark Kahne was ahead of where Larson is. Be careful to annoint drivers
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The figures lie and the liars figure. Kasey Kahne was with a team that was fairly consistently winning races. Then, after Evernham fell apart, Kahne went on to Red Bull, where he won ONE race. His victory with that team was so overrated, it's not funny. He's had five victories driving for Hendrick over four years.

His entire career, the experts have said Kahne has underperformed because he wasn't in good equipment. Now, he's in Hendrick cars and performing just as inconsistently, if not worse.

Unlike Kahne, Larson's teammates aren't performing that great either. Unlike Kahne's entire career, the car Larson's in hasn't consistently won big races and contended championships. Unlike Kahne, Larson isn't win a team that's won countless championships.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Kahne was in better equipment. Bill Elliott won races in Evernnham cars and Jeremy Mayfield was rock solid in them too.

Ganassi hasn't been very good over the past few years. Matt McCall and Chad Johnston are good crew chiefs, Jamie McMurray and Kyle Larson are good drives, but the equipment doesn't match their talent.



The figures lie and the liars figure. Kasey Kahne was with a team that was fairly consistently winning races. Then, after Evernham fell apart, Kahne went on to Red Bull, where he won ONE race. His victory with that team was so overrated, it's not funny. He's had five victories driving for Hendrick over four years.

His entire career, the experts have said Kahne has underperformed because he wasn't in good equipment. Now, he's in Hendrick cars and performing just as inconsistently, if not worse.

Unlike Kahne, Larson's teammates aren't performing that great either. Unlike Kahne's entire career, the car Larson's in hasn't consistently won big races and contended championships. Unlike Kahne, Larson isn't win a team that's won countless championships.
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I'm not sure how 17 wins is underperforming but okay. Evernham was never a championship team, they were a b plus team just like Gannassi is now. Elliott won a few races for them, and mayfield won 2 whopping races. Let's not act like Kasey didn't carry that organization. And you conveniently leave out the year Kahne won two races for RPM and Carried them into the 10 car chase, breaking a decade long winning drought for the king. Kahne was competing for wins every race in his lame duck year with Red Bull, I guess the win is just overrated because you say so :idunno:. You can try to spin this however you want, but they've been in the same caliber of equipment until Kahne went to Hendrick. And he's won 5 races and made the chase 3 out of 4 years, yet this board makes him sound like Danica. It's comical. Hendrick always has one bad team and that trend will continue regardless of who takes over the 5. Larson's best career points finish is 18th, not good. He's also been beaten by Jamie Mac every year with the team and they both had race winning cars in 2014. Jamie won the all star race that year. Gannassi is by no means a championship team but as bad as Larson has been the driver deserves plenty of blame. But as usual, revisionist history is applied depending on whether it's a driver we like or not.
 
DaBiff1618 said:
I'm not sure how 17 wins is underperforming but okay. Evernham was never a championship team, they were a b plus team just like Gannassi is now. Elliott won a few races for them, and mayfield won 2 whopping races. Let's not act like Kasey didn't carry that organization. And you conveniently leave out the year Kahne won two races for RPM and Carried them into the 10 car chase, breaking a decade long winning drought for the king. Kahne was competing for wins every race in his lame duck year with Red Bull, I guess the win is just overrated because you say so :idunno:. You can try to spin this however you want, but they've been in the same caliber of equipment until Kahne went to Hendrick. And he's won 5 races and made the chase 3 out of 4 years, yet this board makes him sound like Danica. It's comical. Hendrick always has one bad team and that trend will continue regardless of who takes over the 5. Larson's best career points finish is 18th, not good. He's also been beaten by Jamie Mac every year with the team and they both had race winning cars in 2014. Jamie won the all star race that year. Gannassi is by no means a championship team but as bad as Larson has been the driver deserves plenty of blame. But as usual, revisionist history is applied depending on whether it's a driver we like or not.
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Ganassi isn't a B-plus team. They have one win, at a plate race, in the last five years. That's equal to Front Row. Spin the All-Star Race all you want, it doesn't count. Michael Waltrip won the All-Star Race once.

Bill Elliott went over seven years without a win and then became a contender again at Evernham prior to Kahne taking over that ride. Jeremy Mayfield, who was always an average driver, had average seasons driving for Evernham. And, until recently, Kahne had been seen as underrated.

Ganassi employees will even tell you, the team just hasn't been good. They had a good run in 2002 with Sterling Marlin and a good run after the merger with DEI when they had Mark Martin and Juan Pablo Montoya. McMurray returned in 2010 and both Montoya and McMurray ran well, but the team hasn't been competitive since then.

Red Bull wasn't a bad team either. Brian Vickers was every bit as competitive at Red Bull as he was at Hendrick and at Waltrip's team. AJ Allmendinger ran the same at Red Bull as he did at Penske, in a car Joey Logano has achieved greatness in.

After Kahne's success at Red Bull, where he didn't make the Chase (something Vickers could do), everyone said Kahne would win championships at Hendrick. Since joining Hendrick, he's been the weakest link. Simply put, with the exception of 2006, Kahne's always been average at best.
 
It's late af and I was finally able to finish this race.. So I haven't read much of this thread, but anyone who still discredits Larson or Elliott after today is a ****** idiot.
 
DUN24 said:
It's late af and I was finally able to finish this race.. So I haven't read much of this thread, but anyone who still discredits Larson or Elliott after today is a ****** idiot.
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Ryan Blaney too. He's been pretty remarkable this year.

I'm excited about the future of the sport.

Kyle Larson, Chase Elliott, Ryan Blaney, Erik Jones, Daniel Suarez, Brandon Jones and Christopher Bell are gonna be fun to watch. Hopefully Todd Gilliland, Kate Dallenbach, Chad Finchum, Ty Majeski and Dillon Bassett join the party as well.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Ryan Blaney too. He's been pretty remarkable this year.

I'm excited about the future of the sport.

Kyle Larson, Chase Elliott, Ryan Blaney, Erik Jones, Daniel Suarez, Brandon Jones and Christopher Bell are gonna be fun to watch. Hopefully Todd Gilliland, Kate Dallenbach, Chad Finchum, Ty Majeski and Dillon Bassett join the party as well.
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A changing of the guard it seems... Unlike the last one, I like a ton of the new up n' comers.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Again, Kahne was with a championship team his first three years. Larson is not.

Chip Ganassi Racing's last win came at a plate race in 2013. Prior to that, the team hadn't scored a win since 2010.
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I don't know if I'd go so far as to say Evernham Motorsports was a "championship team". Ganassi actually came a lot closer to the championship in '01 and '02 than Evernham ever did as an owner. Nonetheless, I do agree that Kasey has horribly underperformed at HMS. It's looking like he could miss the chase for a second straight year, and in an era where pretty much everyone makes the chase, it'd be unacceptable for Kahne to miss it in back-to-back years in HMS equipment.
 
Kahne fails post-race inspection: Kasey Kahne's #5 Chevrolet failed post-race laser inspection station and will be taken to the NASCAR Research and Development Center in Concord, North Carolina, for further evaluation. If penalties are warranted, they will be announced later this week.(NASCAR Wire Service)(5-16-2016)
 
ToyYoda said:
I don't know if I'd go so far as to say Evernham Motorsports was a "championship team". Ganassi actually came a lot closer to the championship in '01 and '02 than Evernham ever did as an owner. Nonetheless, I do agree that Kasey has horribly underperformed at HMS. It's looking like he could miss the chase for a second straight year, and in an era where pretty much everyone makes the chase, it'd be unacceptable for Kahne to miss it in back-to-back years in HMS equipment.
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I don't want to talk about 2002. #BitterMarkMartinFan

Evernham cars were always a factor in races for several years.

I think Kahne's done regardless. Hendrick's noticed that Kahne seems to perform exceptionally well only when he has to.
 
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