SILLY SEASON 2019

AdoubleU24 said:
If they only improve the schedules for the two lower series, does anyone truly care? Honest question.

I do watch those series, more trucks than Xfin, but my true passion and what I really care about is the cup series. If they aren't going to do what needs to be done to enhance the schedule for those guys, then all of this talk is meaningless to me.
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Good point. What is required is to completely blow up the schedule and start from scratch. I realize that it'll never happen and I'm one of those old guys shaking my cane and telling those darned kids to get off my lawn. I'd care more about the lower series if they didn't essentially run the Cup schedule. When I was a kid going to Orange County and South Boston speedways, it was a HUGE deal when the BGN, Modifieds, or Goody's Daytona Dash cars came to town. Cup and BGN were distinctly different series, and the BGN dates at tracks like Daytona or Charlotte were truly special deals. I completely get why Xfinity evolved into what it did due to track owners trying to wring every dime out of their weekends, but it killed the series imho. OK, so maybe you could never get the Xfinity series to come back to tracks like South Boston, but there's no reason the trucks couldn't. That's what the series was started as: a national touring NASCAR division that ran short tracks with the rare venture into Cup tracks. Now if you excuse me, I need to take my Geritol and watch Matlock.
 
Dr_B_UNC said:
Cup and BGN were distinctly different series, and the BGN dates at tracks like Daytona or Charlotte were truly special deals. I completely get why Xfinity evolved into what it did due to track owners trying to wring every dime out of their weekends, but it killed the series imho. OK, so maybe you could never get the Xfinity series to come back to tracks like South Boston, but there's no reason the trucks couldn't. That's what the series was started as: a national touring NASCAR division that ran short tracks with the rare venture into Cup tracks.
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This. I usually snooze through Matlock so I can be awake for 'Murder, She Wrote'; that Landsbury dame.is hotter than a $2 pistol. ;)
 
I like Suarez, but I'm not completely sold on him as a driver. That said, it's a little early from an evaluation standpoint to be throwing him to the 95.
 
AuzGrams said:
I like Suarez, but I'm not completely sold on him as a driver. That said, it's a little early from an evaluation standpoint to be throwing him to the 95.
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looks more like click bait fishing to me, makes as much sense as switching Suarez to Furniture row
 
personally if Truex/Furniture Row isn't racing next year, it is a sign that Toyota is cutting their racing budget IMO. Gibbs got rid of Kenseth saying sponsor problems, but Jones has been running Kenseth's sponsors every since. Kenseth was cut for the difference in salary. Suarez has good backing, so why would Gibbs get rid of him for a driver (Truex) that doesn't. If it changed for Suarez, Gibbs would cut another member of his "he's family" in a heartbeat.
 
My gut feeling is a lot of it has to do with Kurt Busch/41 and whatever McMurray in the 1/CGR is doing.

I have a hard time NOT seeing Tony Stewart trying to go after Martin Truex in the 41 if Kurt is indeed out the door to the 1 team for example. Especially with the Bass Pro connection.
 
AuzGrams said:
My gut feeling is a lot of it has to do with Kurt Busch/41 and whatever McMurray in the 1/CGR is doing.

I have a hard time NOT seeing Tony Stewart trying to go after Martin Truex in the 41 if Kurt is indeed out the door to the 1 team for example. Especially with the Bass Pro connection.
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shouldn't happen unless Toyota is laying down IMO. They have a final four team they would let go? Or lets sign up Lavine Family racing a team that has never done much and get rid of a championship team..yeah that's the ticket.:confused:
 
I think it be a mistake to let Suarez go, it took him a little while to get adjusted to Xfinity cars and then he won the championship, I think the same thing is going on with him in Cup, he is an good driver.
 
AuzGrams said:
My gut feeling is a lot of it has to do with Kurt Busch/41 and whatever McMurray in the 1/CGR is doing.

I have a hard time NOT seeing Tony Stewart trying to go after Martin Truex in the 41 if Kurt is indeed out the door to the 1 team for example. Especially with the Bass Pro connection.
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I just came here to say something similar to this we're just waiting for the first Domino to fall and then we're going to see everything once we know what's happening at furniture row everything else will go down.
 
I would feel bad for Suarez if that happened, and it would be pretty ****** on JGR's part imo.
 
StandOnIt said:
shouldn't happen unless Toyota is laying down IMO. They have a final four team they would let go? Or lets sign up Lavine Family racing a team that has never done much and get rid of a championship team..yeah that's the ticket.:confused:
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How much IS/was Toyota throwing the 78 compared to what they'd do with Leavine? Who's to say they won't cut the budget of their affiliates while Barney is trying to get out.
 
AuzGrams said:
How much IS/was Toyota throwing the 78 compared to what they'd do with Leavine? Who's to say they won't cut the budget of their affiliates while Barney is trying to get out.
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who said Barney is trying to get out? :confused:

Garone added, "Being a perennial championship contending team with a talented driver in Martin, Furniture Row Racing continues to be committed in offering a new sponsor not only success on the racetrack but also the benefit of a strong marketing platform with our powerful team of partners - Bass Pro Shops, Auto-Owners Insurance, Toyota, Furniture Row and Denver Mattress."
https://furniturerowracing.furnitur...ship-Search-to-Replace-5-hour-ENERGY/15901550
 
StandOnIt said:
who said Barney is trying to get out?
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From Allenbaba (more reliable than most at least):
I don't think he's in a position to spend a lot of FR money on the race team anymore. A lot has changed in the last several years, the day to day running of the company, their business model, the marketing allocations that come with it, etc... To be honest, the ROI never made sense for them in the first place - when you look at the FR markets, and match it up with the NASCAR markets, it wouldn't seem like a very smart media spend. But, it was as much a hobby as it was a marketing spend, so it was ok. Two things have changed since those years 1) his role in the company - his children have a much more active role, so he defers to them more. And 2) every single NASCAR fan now knows that Furniture Row exists, and is a Furniture option. That probably wasn't the case even 5 years ago, it just wasn't as top of mind as it is today. So in that sense, the marketing spend seems even more gratuitous. It's like they're a brand recognition victim of their own success.
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Obviously things change - but, if I had to make a bet right now, today, on Tuesday August 28th, I would bet that the 78 closes its doors and the 78 group takes over the 19 (sending Suarez to the 95 if he wants that ride). My second guess, much further down the line, would be that the 78 closes its doors, and the 78 group ends up at the 41. My third bet...and it's a very distant third...is that the 78 stays in the sport. That's just how I'd rank the probability today. We'll see if that changes tomorrow!
 
StandOnIt said:
shouldn't happen unless Toyota is laying down IMO. They have a final four team they would let go? Or lets sign up Lavine Family racing a team that has never done much and get rid of a championship team..yeah that's the ticket.:confused:
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The only way I could see Toyota doing that is if Barney gets out entirely and Levine is able to pick up all of the assets and resources of the #78.
 
Allenbaba said:
Obviously things change - but, if I had to make a bet right now, today, on Tuesday August 28th, I would bet that the 78 closes its doors and the 78 group takes over the 19 (sending Suarez to the 95 if he wants that ride). My second guess, much further down the line, would be that the 78 closes its doors, and the 78 group ends up at the 41. My third bet...and it's a very distant third...is that the 78 stays in the sport. That's just how I'd rank the probability today. We'll see if that changes tomorrow!
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If a Big 3 team with a personable driver and one year removed from a title can't nail down a sponsor, this sport is in for a more radical shake-up than I expected. I didn't realize these glasses had become that rose-colored. It might even be time for me to glance at the Death Bed discussion.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
If a Big 3 team with a personable driver and one year removed from a title can't nail down a sponsor, this sport is in for a more radical shake-up than I expected. I didn't realize these glasses had become that rose-colored. It might even be time for me to glance at the Death Bed discussion.
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if this if that
 
Charlie Spencer said:
If a Big 3 team with a personable driver and one year removed from a title can't nail down a sponsor, this sport is in for a more radical shake-up than I expected. I didn't realize these glasses had become that rose-colored. It might even be time for me to glance at the Death Bed discussion.
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NASCAR is definitely not delivering the value it used to - I think we all agree on that. But, to be fair, they do have sponsors, about $15m worth. Which is probably more sponsorship money than more than half the teams in the garage have. They've just decided $15m is not enough money to win every week, and not winning every week isn't enough motivation to make the effort. So they would rather fold.

Also, it's not like they've had a lot of time to find the $10m or so they lost with 5hr. I bet if they had 365 days to do it, they'd come pretty close to $10m. But they only had about 3 months.
 
Allenbaba said:
Obviously things change - but, if I had to make a bet right now, today, on Tuesday August 28th, I would bet that the 78 closes its doors and the 78 group takes over the 19 (sending Suarez to the 95 if he wants that ride). My second guess, much further down the line, would be that the 78 closes its doors, and the 78 group ends up at the 41. My third bet...and it's a very distant third...is that the 78 stays in the sport. That's just how I'd rank the probability today. We'll see if that changes tomorrow!
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Bass Pro the 19 and Arris to the 95?
 
kkfan91 said:
I think it be a mistake to let Suarez go, it took him a little while to get adjusted to Xfinity cars and then he won the championship, I think the same thing is going on with him in Cup, he is an good driver.
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Exactly. This is how stupid the sport is. Suarez got screwed by Edwards retiring way earlier then expected, he’s a good driver but needed another year or two in Xfinity. People should consider this example and how long it took Chase and Kyle Larson to win in Cup before they clamor to rush up someone like C Bell. These teams are lazy and unimaginative and it’s easier to scapegoat a young cheap driver then to make the team better. Take JTG and RCR for example: Chris Buescher is a 10 time arca winner and champion, winner and champion in the Xfinity series for Roush freaking racing, and even has a win at the cup level. Ryan Newman has 18 Cup wins, 10,000 poles, and won a race and made the chase just last season. Yet who is JTG and RCR gonna blame? It can’t be that the team is mediocre it’s Buescher/Newman/Allmendingwr’s fault! Best rush up a guy with 0 NASCAR wins like Daniel Hemric and promptly castrate him when he finishes 22nd to Kyle Busch and Harvick every week
 
Allenbaba said:
NASCAR is definitely not delivering the value it used to - I think we all agree on that. But, to be fair, they do have sponsors, about $15m worth. Which is probably more sponsorship money than more than half the teams in the garage have. They've just decided $15m is not enough money to win every week, and not winning every week isn't enough motivation to make the effort. So they would rather fold.

Also, it's not like they've had a lot of time to find the $10m or so they lost with 5hr. I bet if they had 365 days to do it, they'd come pretty close to $10m. But they only had about 3 months.
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But he fielded a team for years out of his own pocket that didn't have a chance at winning much less a title. ok
 
DaBiff1618 said:
Exactly. This is how stupid the sport is. Suarez got screwed by Edwards retiring way earlier then expected, he’s a good driver but needed another year or two in Xfinity. People should consider this example and how long it took Chase and Kyle Larson to win in Cup before they clamor to rush up someone like C Bell. These teams are lazy and unimaginative and it’s easier to scapegoat a young cheap driver then to make the team better. Take JTG and RCR for example: Chris Buescher is a 10 time arca winner and champion, winner and champion in the Xfinity series for Roush freaking racing, and even has a win at the cup level. Ryan Newman has 18 Cup wins, 10,000 poles, and won a race and made the chase just last season. Yet who is JTG and RCR gonna blame? It can’t be that the team is mediocre it’s Buescher/Newman/Allmendingwr’s fault! Best rush up a guy with 0 NASCAR wins like Daniel Hemric and promptly castrate him when he finishes 22nd to Kyle Busch and Harvick every week
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It took Chase and Larson a bit for things to fall their way but they were both competing for wins very early on. Chase by the middle of his rookie season. I get what you're saying but I don't think those 2 are a good measuring stick.
 
I wonder if the 95 team even can do that kind of investment as in moving to Toyota.... they literally have pieced together sponsorship I just don't understand how they can afford a Gibbs relationship.
 
Fordracing7 said:
I wonder if the 95 team even can do that kind of investment as in moving to Toyota.... they literally have pieced together sponsorship I just don't understand how they can afford a Gibbs relationship.
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and even if they got it, with the personnel they have right now? some of this stuff is so far away from reality IMO
 
Allenbaba said:
No money ever left his pocket, the team was funded by his company's marketing budget. That's no longer an option.
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I can also imagine that Barney views the sport very differently now than he did in his early years. Back then, everything was a new experience, the team had a shoestring budget, and usually ran mid-field on a good day. A 15th place finish probably felt like "a win." Then they got better, and budgets went up quite a bit, and on-track performance was really quite exceptional. Going back to that earlier low-budget model would not appeal today like it did in prior years. Now it is big bucks or nothing, I'd imagine. It probably feels more like work than it used to.

This is why owners such as Hendrick, Gibbs, Penske, and a few others are so rare. Their passion for competing and winning never tails off after a few years of success. They keep investing and placing capital at risk until their last breath... and we *hope* their children have as much passion and management savvy to carry on... but odds are they don't.
 
LewTheShoe said:
I can also imagine that Barney views the sport very differently now than he did in his early years. Back then, everything was a new experience, the team had a shoestring budget, and usually ran mid-field on a good day. A 15th place finish probably felt like "a win." Then they got better, and budgets went up quite a bit, and on-track performance was really quite exceptional. Going back to that earlier low-budget model would not appeal today like it did in prior years. Now it is big bucks or nothing, I'd imagine. It probably feels more like work than it used to.

This is why owners such as Hendrick, Gibbs, Penske, and a few others are so rare. Their passion for competing and winning never tails off after a few years of success. They keep investing and placing capital at risk until their last breath... and we *hope* their children have as much passion and management savvy to carry on... but odds are they don't.
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Sometimes it's hard to find motivation once you've accomplished your goals. If you spend millions of dollars a year with the far off goal of some day winning a championship, what do you do when that day finally comes. You achieved your goal, and it's still costing millions.

I know it'll be a sad day if they close up shop because of lack of sponsorship. What they've done is pretty remarkable. People say it's just a JGR car, but 3/4 JGR cars can't touch the 78 and they dominated with RCR equipment in 2015 (just had comical bad luck late in races)
 
Fordracing7 said:
I wonder if the 95 team even can do that kind of investment as in moving to Toyota.... they literally have pieced together sponsorship I just don't understand how they can afford a Gibbs relationship.
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If FRR dissolves, Toyota will help them big time. I really don't think TRD wants to be a one team manufacturer (I know @StandOnIt, they kind of already are...).
 
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