NASCAR announces 2019 MENCS rules

rd45usa said:
NASCAR'S NEW DISQUALIFICATION POLICY EXPLAINED

https://autoweek.com/article/nascar/nascars-new-disqualification-policy-explained
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Here's something I don't think we've mentioned here yet:

"Appeals (of pre-post race inspection violations) will feature just one panelist instead of three, and that individual's decision is final. There will be no appeal to the final appeals officer as is an option during the process for all other appeals."

I'd like to see NASCAR go back to displaying illegal parts in front of the Winst-; er, Monster hauler, or in some accessible area in these new fan-friendly garages. I don't know much about these things but I'll bet it would be a social media magnet.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I'd like to see NASCAR go back to displaying illegal parts in front of the Winst-; er, Monster hauler, or in some accessible area in these new fan-friendly garages. I don't know much about these things but I'll bet it would be a social media magnet.
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Yep.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Here's something I don't think we've mentioned here yet:

"Appeals (of pre-post race inspection violations) will feature just one panelist instead of three, and that individual's decision is final. There will be no appeal to the final appeals officer as is an option during the process for all other appeals."

I'd like to see NASCAR go back to displaying illegal parts in front of the Winst-; er, Monster hauler, or in some accessible area in these new fan-friendly garages. I don't know much about these things but I'll bet it would be a social media magnet.
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....and just who is this appeals panelist? Does he/she have a special jacket or something? Arm band? I mean, just WTF is that? Stupid.

They won't display the stuff anymore because NASCAR is concerned about trends. Gives those bastard engineers ideas.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Here's something I don't think we've mentioned here yet:

"Appeals (of pre-post race inspection violations) will feature just one panelist instead of three, and that individual's decision is final. There will be no appeal to the final appeals officer as is an option during the process for all other appeals."

I'd like to see NASCAR go back to displaying illegal parts in front of the Winst-; er, Monster hauler, or in some accessible area in these new fan-friendly garages. I don't know much about these things but I'll bet it would be a social media magnet.
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I think they are going to put Harvick's spoiler in the Hall of Fame :tongue:
 
Revman said:
....and just who is this appeals panelist? Does he/she have a special jacket or something? Arm band? I mean, just WTF is that? Stupid.

They won't display the stuff anymore because NASCAR is concerned about trends. Gives those bastard engineers ideas.
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I'm -guessing- it's one of the existing appeals panelists. I'll bet most of us couldn't name any of those three without a Google search.

More to the point, will the same one official pass judgement on all series running at a track on a given weekend, or will each series have its own assigned official? Will the same official(s) hold this position for the entire season, or will the duty be rotated?
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I'm -guessing- it's one of the existing appeals panelists. I'll bet most of us couldn't name any of those three without a Google search.

More to the point, will the same one official pass judgement on all series running at a track on a given weekend, or will each series have its own assigned official? Will the same official(s) hold this position for the entire season, or will the duty be rotated?
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Its 28 people..most i haven't heard of but I did notice Bill Lester, Buddy Parrott, Shawna Robinson, Mike Skinner, Jimmy Smith, Lake Speed.
 
I can't for the life of me figure out where the article was posted about the Gen 7 car. It was loosely about making the cars look closer to show room stuff, and one of the Ford wigs talked about liking to see changes to not only making the car closer to showroom but making changes under the car as well. I made a wild guess and said IRS would be a nice consideration to using 70's Chevy truck arms. Well where there is smoke? there might be fire..really cool especially for road courses if that happened..thinking further ahead, many road course ringers would be familiar with that setup.
 
For the automotive ignorant, how does independent rear suspension differ from what NASCAR stock cars run now? I -assume- 'independent' means the left and right side aren't connected, implying they are currently connected in some way, but we all know about assuming. What's the effect of IRS on performance?

Thanks in advance.
 
it is a pretty big difference. If you look at most pick up trucks you see a single piece rear end connected to both wheels and tires. If you look at a sports car and many passenger cars, both wheels and tires act independent of each other when they hit bumps, where the single piece truck type rear end both tires are effected when a bump is hit. You have much better control with IRS. All four tires now have separate suspensions reacting to the varying surface of the road. They will corner like spider monkeys. This should make a hell of a difference on the ovals also handling wise.
 
Now before ya start in, this is Kyle Busch speaking. I would read the rest of the article I think it is pretty good and not because he has said this below. Weather he wants to claim it, he IS one of the spokesmen for the sport.

–On the necessity of the reduction to 550 horsepower, which NASCAR has said is aimed mostly at improving race quality at 1.5-mile tracks: “I certainly wish we didn’t have to deal with those things, but I do understand that back in the ‘70s or ‘80s, they were at 500 to 600 horsepower. Now we’re pushing 900, 950. I understand that we can go too fast. How fast is too fast, I don’t know. It’s all about throttle response and crispness of the engine.

“What we’ve already known and become accustomed to, now we’re taking a step back in time a little bit. I say all that because you have tapered spacers on trucks, and Xfinity and Cup cars. They’re all that way; we’re reducing horsepower across the board to slow these things down. The mechanical and aero grip of these things are so great, that at some tracks, you’re wide open. You’re able to cruise around by yourself and when you get in traffic, you’ve got the draft, which will play a role. There’s some interesting variables that are going to come out with this new package.”

https://nascar.nbcsports.com/2019/0...tatus-2019-rules-gen-7-car-nascar-leadership/
 
StandOnIt said:
The mechanical and aero grip of these things are so great, that at some tracks, you’re wide open.
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I think that is the key right there. Modern race cars have come so far along in terms of aero and chassis that raw HP is almost needed to overcome the increased knowledge in those areas. I don't think it's just as simple as turning back the clock to HP levels we saw many moons ago, because we're also not going to make everyone unlearn everything they've discovered that makes cars go faster in other ways. If they manage to make Gen-7 a formula where the HP is low enough that other manufacturers can afford to get in while stripping away a lot of the inherent grip (the new massive spoiler, for one) I think NASCAR will be better for it.
 
Cars are antiquated— crude by modern standards. The key is to keep those crude specs and performance comparable between the teams — while keeping the cars out of the stands.

Childers and his cheated up blade would be laughed out of the the F1 garage. But maybe that Haas science project was good enough for gaining an advantage in NASCAR.

The NASCAR formula is such convoluted BS, but here we are, watching NASCAR try to alter the Formula and Rules so they can compress the field — talent of the driver and crew, as well as differences in resources between the teams are designed to dominate and show no mercy on the track, but that apparently is not “entertaining” enough for NASCAR to keep old fans or draw new ones.

“Dumbing it down” doesn’t seem to work because you can’t stop smart people from engineering greater performance compared to others in the field. So last hope is to force them more into a pack and turn it into a close-in fight like a racing brawl.

Owner is desperate to draw fans — so go for crude entertainment like in the movie Slapshot. Where are you Hanson Brothers — NASCAR needs you!
 
FLRacingFan said:
I think that is the key right there. Modern race cars have come so far along in terms of aero and chassis that raw HP is almost needed to overcome the increased knowledge in those areas. I don't think it's just as simple as turning back the clock to HP levels we saw many moons ago, because we're also not going to make everyone unlearn everything they've discovered that makes cars go faster in other ways. If they manage to make Gen-7 a formula where the HP is low enough that other manufacturers can afford to get in while stripping away a lot of the inherent grip (the new massive spoiler, for one) I think NASCAR will be better for it.
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a softer tire can go along way if tire fall off was a factor on the 1.5's, I don't have much faith in Goodyear doing so. I think their performance or lack of needs to be looked at. They went with General Tire for K&N, Euro, Pinty's and the Mexico series this year for 6 years. Could be something to that. I believe the Gen 7 car is going to be a lot closer to a showroom looking car. Every thing I read is pointing that way. The cars should look a lot better. It's kinda going back to the 80's with car looks, or today's Super Cars.. What they have done on the shorter tracks is increase the handling. The spoiler is fairly close once again to the 80's cars or late models. I think that will be a winner at most of those. I don't think there will be much to complain about at the smaller tracks, might be able to run multiple lines at Bristol if tire fall off is there. Jim France has been to every race since last August down in the pits taking notes they say. I bet he has heard tire complaints among other things.
 
StandOnIt said:
a softer tire can go along way if tire fall off was a factor on the 1.5's, I don't have much faith in Goodyear doing so. I think their performance or lack of needs to be looked at. They went with General Tire for K&N, Euro, Pinty's and the Mexico series this year for 6 years. Could be something to that. I believe the Gen 7 car is going to be a lot closer to a showroom looking car. Every thing I read is pointing that way. The cars should look a lot better. It's kinda going back to the 80's with car looks, or today's Super Cars.. What they have done on the shorter tracks is increase the handling. The spoiler is fairly close once again to the 80's cars or late models. I think that will be a winner at most of those. I don't think there will be much to complain about at the smaller tracks, might be able to run multiple lines at Bristol if tire fall off is there. Jim France has been to every race since last August down in the pits taking notes they say. I bet he has heard tire complaints among other things.
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Yeah, Supercars have run IRS since the Car of the Future (sound familiar?) came on board the same year as Gen-6. I think that is one of the things Ford were alluding to as you mentioned earlier.

I think midcorner speeds still need to come down a little bit for Goodyear to feel comfortable bringing a softer tire to the intermediates.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Yeah, Supercars have run IRS since the Car of the Future (sound familiar?) came on board the same year as Gen-6. I think that is one of the things Ford were alluding to as you mentioned earlier.

I think midcorner speeds still need to come down a little bit for Goodyear to feel comfortable bringing a softer tire to the intermediates.
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Hide and watch them run two fuel runs with the left sides. I bet that is going to happen running the rocks. I think Goodyear is being lazy and using the wrong data myself.
 
I’m iffy on softer tires. We’ve seen this in F1 where people will coast pace wise to save those tires
 
Mispeedway15 said:
I’m iffy on softer tires. We’ve seen this in F1 where people will coast pace wise to save those tires
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I have no problems with drivers that know how to manage their tires. I enjoy seeing them blowing by other cars at the end of a tire cycle, especially on tracks where long green flag runs are common.
 
StandOnIt said:
Hide and watch them run two fuel runs with the left sides. I bet that is going to happen running the rocks. I think Goodyear is being lazy and using the wrong data myself.
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I'll admit to being a little biased, but I have thought for a LONG time that Goodyear was in WAY over their heads.
 
StandOnIt said:
https://www.racing-reference.info/showblog?id=3251
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On the surface tire competition seems like a good thing, but all it usually leads to a LOT of money wasted, and a LOT of torn up race cars, as teams scramble to use the fastest tire, and hold on and pray they don't blow out and put them in the wall. The development of competing brands require a lot more testing, which NASCAR doesn't want, and the tire manufacturers try to align with a certain number of teams to protect their investment, because NASCAR requires you to bring enough tires to the track for EVERYBODY. Then, if your contracted brand is out to lunch on a particular week, you are either beaten before the race even starts, which pisses off the fans, or the tire manufacturer has to release you from your contract for that week, which makes THEM unhappy.
Unlike other series over the years where multiple brands seemed to be able to coexist, NASCAR cars just seems to be too tire dependent to make it work very well. The last time somebody won a NASCAR race by a lap or more? Geoff Bodine at North Wilkesboro on a weekend when Hoosier tires had Goodyear covered, and only Geoff and a couple of cars had them.
 
Formerjackman said:
Laugh all you want, but I share the opinion (as do many others) that Michelin could do a much better job. Whether they would even be interested in it, I don't know.
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Good for you and many others willing to present straw man arguments in defense of your position that Goodyear is in over its head.

Annual aero revisions and limited testing make life difficult for the tire supplier, no matter its corporate identity.
 
aunty dive said:
Good for you and many others willing to present straw man arguments in defense of your position that Goodyear is in over its head.

Annual aero revisions and limited testing make life difficult for the tire supplier, no matter its corporate identity.
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I was skeptical of their ability a LONG time before NASCAR started charging the aero package every five minutes. All things being equal (obviously they aren't) I'm pretty sure Hoosier could have run Goodyear clean out of NASCAR in two to three years.
 
New Degatona package being tested today. The spoiler is rather large.

50824532_123001472095956_4529090224608589835_n.jpg
 
You got a spolier fetish or something? :pOr just like to see cars fly in the air at 200 per. What I don't see is the new thing, skirt or whatever they called it hanging down from the rear
 
Charlie Spencer said:
That was discouraging, at least for me.
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I posted it to see how close those guys are to predicting the outcome of what really happens. Sorry, didn't mean to bum anybody out. :) I'm sure I would get an argument, but so far most of the doomsday predictions and optimism predictions seem to be kinda in the middle instead of the extreme ends of the scale and surprisingly the rate the race ratings show it from both sides of the coin the first race. Time will tell if their predictions above come true. Atlanta wasn't a yawner, and IMO if Nascar can lessen those by any means, fans will look forward to races, instead of some who seem to dread almost every race.
 
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