NASCAR announces 2019 MENCS rules

StandOnIt said:
91% of fans surveyed wanted the winner DQ'd. Can't tell ya who the other 9% are but some of them probably post here. :p
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I know I would want to know who the winner was but I would also need to know that the win was fair and square. If Nascar applies this rule fairly and equally it will be as good as can be.

Ideally these inspections would be handled by a third party like drug tests are. Nascar has a long history of being shady when it comes to rules so it is not easy for some to believe they will be righteous just because they say so.
 
NASCAR placing Professional Integrity above earthly gains is both morally righteous and ethically pure. So, I can see why some fans and owners may not favor such an approach. :rolleyes:

The biggest absurdity is a shameless team that wins by cheating, then claims to be the best -- while stealing the hardware and absconding with prize money (and other earthly rewards)... :D
 
B.S. Unless you understand Nascar is in the entertainment business and they have to make concessions for commercial times and "the show" people can play holy pious all they want. It don't go anywhere. Nascar making moves to make the series more credible, with stages and DQ'ing illegal cars involved and we have a couple saying gimmick, and throwing shade? eh that's typical of "super fans"
 
StandOnIt said:
B.S. Unless you understand Nascar is in the entertainment business and they have to make concessions for commercial times and "the show" people can play holy pious all they want. It don't go anywhere. Nascar making moves to make the series more credible, with stages and no DQ'ing the cars involved and we have a couple saying gimmick, and throwing shade? eh that's typical of "super fans"
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I got caught in the cross-fire... :)
 
Ventisca said:
NASCAR placing Professional Integrity above earthly gains is both morally righteous and ethically pure. So, I can see why some fans and owners may not favor such an approach. :rolleyes:

The biggest absurdity is a shameless team that wins by cheating, then claims to be the best -- while stealing the hardware and absconding with prize money (and other earthly rewards)... :D
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I’m used to the type of Nascar that crucifies Carl Long for using a worn out engine and throws a yellow to prevent someone going a lap down. It doesn’t take long to lose credibility but it can take a while to rebuild it. JMO.
 
IanMcVittie said:
I’m used to the type of Nascar that crucifies Carl Long for using a worn out engine and throws a yellow to prevent someone going a lap down. It doesn’t take long to lose credibility but it can take a while to rebuild it. JMO.
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How long ago was Carl Long penalized for a larger engine? :D Been fanning the flame on that one for a long time?
 
IanMcVittie said:
I’m used to the type of Nascar that crucifies Carl Long for using a worn out engine and throws a yellow to prevent someone going a lap down. It doesn’t take long to lose credibility but it can take a while to rebuild it. JMO.
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I would suggest, not necessarily as a criticism but as an observation, that you were paying closer attention back then. NASCAR does indeed have a dubious history of consistent rules enforcement in many areas. However, they have been moving in a more consistent direction for many years. I would cite the sudden lack of phony debris cautions, the more uniform enforcement of their flawed "yellow line" rule at plate tracks (go back to the '00s and they were horrendously biased with this), and the numerous penalties issued to the #9 team last year. Why would they do that to their most popular driver and one they frankly desperately need to be winning races?

In the age of social media and the form of transparency that comes with it, it is much harder to get away with this stuff. They don't seem to be trying to, and that is a positive development.
 
IanMcVittie said:
I’m used to the type of Nascar that crucifies Carl Long for using a worn out engine and throws a yellow to prevent someone going a lap down. It doesn’t take long to lose credibility but it can take a while to rebuild it. JMO.
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I thought Carl's punishment didn't fit the crime, but nobody denies he that the rules were broken. The difference is, that the penalty wouldn't have been any particular big deal for any of the established teams, but it WAS for Carl Long. It's like the old joke headline, "World to end tomorrow, women and children hit hardest". As for the cautions, NASCAR just got more realistic about what things warranted a caution, and I'm not aware of any accusations that they favored any one driver over another one, they just wanted to tighten up the field all of the time. It was wrong, but I never got the impression they were trying to throw the race to or away from any one person.
 
StandOnIt said:
How long ago was Carl Long penalized for a larger engine?:D
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Nascar does not have a good track record regarding rules, enforcement and they have played favorites. All I’m saying is that it will take some time to build credibility in this initiative.

Also you will often hear Nascar referred to as a show (entertainment) as opposed to a sport. When you are concerned with producing entertainment it becomes very easy to overlook certain things to foster drama and entertainment.

I completely understand that you and others may not share these concerns and I respect your opinions.
 
gnomesayin said:
I would suggest, not necessarily as a criticism but as an observation, that you were paying closer attention back then. NASCAR does indeed have a dubious history of consistent rules enforcement in many areas. However, they have been moving in a more consistent direction for many years. I would cite the sudden lack of phony debris cautions, the more uniform enforcement of their flawed "yellow line" rule at plate tracks (go back to the '00s and they were horrendously biased with this), and the numerous penalties issued to the #9 team last year. Why would they do that to their most popular driver and one they frankly desperately need to be winning races?

In the age of social media and the form of transparency that comes with it, it is much harder to get away with this stuff. They don't seem to be trying to, and that is a positive development.
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If that is what you have observed it is good enough for me. It doesn’t seem that long ago when you could practically call cautions from the comfort of your family room. Since the legalized stoppages have been implemented I don’t recall seeing a blatant bogus caution.
 
IanMcVittie said:
Nascar does not have a good track record regarding rules, enforcement and they have played favorites. All I’m saying is that it will take some time to build credibility in this initiative.

Also you will often hear Nascar referred to as a show (entertainment) as opposed to a sport. When you are concerned with producing entertainment it becomes very easy to overlook certain things to foster drama and entertainment.

I completely understand that you and others may not share these concerns and I respect your opinions.
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I don't think most people keep score and a bag full of resentments like some do or were even around or cared.:p Nascar had a problem last year with dirty cars, they are taking steps to fix it, There is a new administration in effect..one must pay attention to the present instead of dredging up old resentments from years ago that they haven't dealt with personally. 91% favor the new rule is what is happening today.
 
StandOnIt said:
I don't think most people keep score and a bag full of resentments like some do or were even around or cared.:p Nascar had a problem last year with dirty cars, they are taking steps to fix it, There is a new administration in effect..one must pay attention to the present instead of dredging up old resentments from years ago that they haven't dealt with personally. 91% favor the new rule is what is happening today.
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I think what it comes down to is that some people are more than willing to give Nascar credibility. Some others want to see how Nascar performs before making a decision.

I don’t see either method as being good or bad but just a personal preference. Some people get very upset because others ideas, opinions and preferences don’t line up with how they think. Part of being part of a community like this is coexisting with people that think differently then what you do.
 
StandOnIt said:
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Good article that hints pretty strongly about the direction they are going with the Gen 7 car.

NASCAR looking "to do some things differently" in Gen 7 car
NASCAR's executive vice president and chief racing development officer Steve O’Donnell said: “I think it’s important to note that the reason we headed in this direction with the 2019 rules package was really to line us up for where we wanted to go in the future from a racing standpoint, both on track from a car’s look and feel and then under the hood from an engine perspective.

“If you look at a lot of the dialogue we’ve had with our existing OEMs, potential OEMs, there’s a lot of interest to do some things differently in terms of making the cars look even more like they do on the street, making sure that we can evolve some of our engine technology as well.

https://www.motorsport.com/nascar-cup/news/Cup-Series-Generation-7-car/4333658/
 
StandOnIt said:
Good article that hints pretty strongly about the direction they are going with the Gen 7 car.

NASCAR looking "to do some things differently" in Gen 7 car
NASCAR's executive vice president and chief racing development officer Steve O’Donnell said: “I think it’s important to note that the reason we headed in this direction with the 2019 rules package was really to line us up for where we wanted to go in the future from a racing standpoint, both on track from a car’s look and feel and then under the hood from an engine perspective.

“If you look at a lot of the dialogue we’ve had with our existing OEMs, potential OEMs, there’s a lot of interest to do some things differently in terms of making the cars look even more like they do on the street, making sure that we can evolve some of our engine technology as well.

https://www.motorsport.com/nascar-cup/news/Cup-Series-Generation-7-car/4333658/
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Some of us were talking about this the other day and lamented that the 2019 rules were going to be foisted upon the next car. Of course by that time who knows how many more times they will have changed things.
 
StandOnIt said:
NASCAR looking "to do some things differently" in Gen 7 car
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Since the sport is dying, may I suggest:

upload_2019-2-6_18-29-25.jpeg

upload_2019-2-6_18-29-41.jpeg

upload_2019-2-6_18-29-55.jpeg
 
IanMcVittie said:
Nascar does not have a good track record regarding rules, enforcement and they have played favorites. All I’m saying is that it will take some time to build credibility in this initiative.

Also you will often hear Nascar referred to as a show (entertainment) as opposed to a sport. When you are concerned with producing entertainment it becomes very easy to overlook certain things to foster drama and entertainment.

I completely understand that you and others may not share these concerns and I respect your opinions.
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Weve been calling it the show sine the 80's.
 
Spotter22 said:
Weve been calling it the show sine the 80's.
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I know, it is funny how some can be so clueless. But they watch other sports and they are doing flip flops and cartwheels and they don't have a problem with that. :p Anything but the thread topic.
 
Spotter22 said:
Weve been calling it the show sine the 80's.
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From the same article above. I wonder if they are looking at IRS for the rear of the car and getting rid of the truck arms?

Mark Rushbrook, the global director of Ford Performance, said Ford is in support of the Generation 7 car.

“As much as we like that we’ve been able to make our new car look like a Mustang, we’d like the ability to do even more in that area,” said Rushbrook.

“In terms of what you see on the outside of the car, we’d like to see a few changes underneath the car for a little bit of technical relevance.
 
StandOnIt said:
From the same article above. I wonder if they are looking at IRS for the rear of the car and getting rid of the truck arms?

Mark Rushbrook, the global director of Ford Performance, said Ford is in support of the Generation 7 car.

“As much as we like that we’ve been able to make our new car look like a Mustang, we’d like the ability to do even more in that area,” said Rushbrook.

“In terms of what you see on the outside of the car, we’d like to see a few changes underneath the car for a little bit of technical relevance.
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Its possible, we could always run a 3 link! ;)
 
Revman said:
C'mon man, he knows, I know, you know, and Rodney knows...that wasn't looking for an advantage--that was cheating. His statement in that context means that he would give Rodney his blessing to do something similar again. We know that. That is thumbing his nose at NASCAR. Period.
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If you were as good as Harvick and Childers are, you wouldn’t care what NASCAR thinks either.
Revman said:
C'mon man, he knows, I know, you know, and Rodney knows...that wasn't looking for an advantage--that was cheating. His statement in that context means that he would give Rodney his blessing to do something similar again. We know that. That is thumbing his nose at NASCAR. Period.
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Formerjackman said:
I thought Carl's punishment didn't fit the crime, but nobody denies he that the rules were broken. The difference is, that the penalty wouldn't have been any particular big deal for any of the established teams, but it WAS for Carl Long. It's like the old joke headline, "World to end tomorrow, women and children hit hardest". As for the cautions, NASCAR just got more realistic about what things warranted a caution, and I'm not aware of any accusations that they favored any one driver over another one, they just wanted to tighten up the field all of the time. It was wrong, but I never got the impression they were trying to throw the race to or away from any one person.
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“Hot-dog Wrapper” Caution at Fontana when KuBu appeared to have control of the race. IIRC

Same time KuBu was going thru the trials of a rocky breakup... :rolleyes:
 
Ventisca said:
“Hot-dog Wrapper” Caution at Fontana when KuBu appeared to have control of the race. IIRC

Same time KuBu was going thru the trials of a rocky breakup... :rolleyes:
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Well, I almost always thought the late cautions screwed my favorites too, but I always looked at NASCAR as an equal opportunity screwer. They just wanted to screw ANYBODY that had a big lead late.
 
StandOnIt said:
Sure will be glad when they finally HAVE a race that people have seen something that is real instead of what only exists in their minds.
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Boy ain't THAT the truth! We'll probably all still disagree, but at least we will be arguing over something that HAS happened, instead of what MIGHT happen.
 
Formerjackman said:
Well, I almost always thought the late cautions screwed my favorites too, but I always looked at NASCAR as an equal opportunity screwer. They just wanted to screw ANYBODY that had a big lead late.
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all of the drivers seeing things on the track was pretty funny. Now they complain when a car is way out of the way on the last lap and they don't throw one.
 
Formerjackman said:
Boy ain't THAT the truth! We'll probably all still disagree, but at least reeder we will be arguing over something that HAS happened, instead of what MIGHT happen.
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I know I’m looking forward to seeing some of the slow races so the speculation can be over and we know what we have. I think that some of the people that think they won’t like it
actually will be ok with it. I think it will be the last straw for some and they will walk away while some will watch with a jaundiced eye.

One thing for sure is that it will be very easy to track. If the ratings and attendance improve it will be a winner but if the losses continue it will be another poor decision by Nascar.
 
StandOnIt said:
Good article that hints pretty strongly about the direction they are going with the Gen 7 car.

NASCAR looking "to do some things differently" in Gen 7 car
NASCAR's executive vice president and chief racing development officer Steve O’Donnell said: “I think it’s important to note that the reason we headed in this direction with the 2019 rules package was really to line us up for where we wanted to go in the future from a racing standpoint, both on track from a car’s look and feel and then under the hood from an engine perspective.

“If you look at a lot of the dialogue we’ve had with our existing OEMs, potential OEMs, there’s a lot of interest to do some things differently in terms of making the cars look even more like they do on the street, making sure that we can evolve some of our engine technology as well.

https://www.motorsport.com/nascar-cup/news/Cup-Series-Generation-7-car/4333658/
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This is a good read.
I wish I had a nickel for every time a poster has been dismissed on this forum for saying the same!!!
Always the same arguments!
Aerodynamics...…."you can't put the genie back in the bottle"
Stock cars...……"everybody knows they aren't stock"
Blah, Blah, Blah! It seems as though the OEMs have finally figured out that the loss of brand identity has had the resultant effect of loss of brand LOYALTY.
BRAVO!!!!!
also if you think we the fans are going to go for the whole "electric car" thing then you are sadly mistaken.
 
E-racing exists for two reasons. It makes sanctioning bodies and manufacturers look enlightened, and there is some technological gain to be had. E-racing is NOT about being a commercially viable consumer driven product. The races will run if there are zero people in the stands and not a single person watching. It is the WNBA of motorsports.
 
Old 97 said:
This is a good read.
I wish I had a nickel for every time a poster has been dismissed on this forum for saying the same!!!
Always the same arguments!
Aerodynamics...…."you can't put the genie back in the bottle"
Stock cars...……"everybody knows they aren't stock"
Blah, Blah, Blah! It seems as though the OEMs have finally figured out that the loss of brand identity has had the resultant effect of loss of brand LOYALTY.
BRAVO!!!!!
also if you think we the fans are going to go for the whole "electric car" thing then you are sadly mistaken.
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It is amazing how out of touch Nascar and the manufacturers have been in terms of the current car and some of its predecessors. Back in the growth and boom period Nascar became particularly arrogant and ignorant and made decisions that will never be able to be fully cleaned up.

The car was obviously a bad decision as well as many of the tracks in use. Those things led to all sorts of gimmicks including the low speed races this year.

I wish all the people at Nascar the best in getting 20+ cleaned up as well as possible.
 
Team Penske said:
Maybe, after all it is racing and that is what some of us watch or try to. You could add
a boom box in every car with volume tied to the throttle cable an a continuous tape playing for sound effects.:D
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I should have said the majority of fans.
Also it's not just the sounds.
 
Old 97 said:
I should have said the majority of fans.
Also it's not just the sounds.
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Your right and if it as dual between drivers for first place and the win, it does not matter what is powering the car. For a GWC it could be a rubber band wound up for torque. I think the car is about 40 % of what is important, the driver 40% and the pit crew about 20%. Any of that can win or lose a race.
 
Team Penske said:
Your right and if it as dual between drivers for first place and the win, it does not matter what is powering the car. For a GWC it could be a rubber band wound up for torque. I think the car is about 40 % of what is important, the driver 40% and the pit crew about 20%. Any of that can win or lose a race.
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Yeah, I'm not the majority that Old 97 is talking about, but I don't care if there's a midget under the hood flogging an 8-pack of hamsters. The sound, the exhaust smell, the vibration mean nothing to me, especially compared to running three wide through the turns or rubbing fenders at Martinsville.

I'd give e-racing a shot if NASCAR trotted it out as a separate series. After all, I didn't use to watch racing at all until I was in my mid-30s. Everything we like is something that we didn't know we liked until we tried it.
 
Most people wouldn't know the difference between Hybrids and total E cars. But there is one. Hybrids have been used in racing for years, and compared to a full V8 car there would be little difference.
 
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