F1 2023 News/Misc.

They couldn't throw Ricciardo away after rescuing him and then not giving him a fair chance. Red Bull put themselves in a bind having too many good drivers and not enough seats.
 
donthaveanickname said:
Absolutely moronic.
www.motorsport.com

AlphaTauri F1 team retains Tsunoda and Ricciardo for 2024

www.motorsport.com www.motorsport.com
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Not a fan of this at all. They’re trying to set up Ricciardo as the Perez successor in 2025, which is just ridiculous. He got washed by Norris last year, but is going to be more competitive with Max?? If anything, give Lawson until Ricciardo’s hand recovers, give Ricciardo the end of the season afterwards, and make a decision then.

There’s too much young talent on the sidelines year after year. We need Andretti to get that 11th team, the rest of the team principals know the same 22 guys for 20 seats every season.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Not a fan of this at all. They’re trying to set up Ricciardo as the Perez successor in 2025, which is just ridiculous. He got washed by Norris last year, but is going to be more competitive with Max?? If anything, give Lawson until Ricciardo’s hand recovers, give Ricciardo the end of the season afterwards, and make a decision then.

There’s too much young talent on the sidelines year after year. We need Andretti to get that 11th team, the rest of the team principals know the same 22 guys for 20 seats every season.
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I think it's Tsunoda's seat to lose for 2025-26. Maybe, Danny's a placeholder, idk what to think at this juncture.
 
donthaveanickname said:
Honda seem pretty committed to him, I think he's a likely candidate for Aston in 2026, hopefully alongside Palou.
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I’m curious to see how the dynamic changes with Aston becoming a factory Honda program. Lawrence has no one to answer to right now…but Honda will probably want two big hitters in the car come ‘26, and Lance could be SOL.
 
I honestly find people's sort of begrudging acceptance of Tsunoda as a guy who clearly is not deserving of one of the 20 seats in F1 astonishing. Clearly, and we all know this, he is only there because of Honda. His pace is not sufficient to justify his continued participation in a car faster than the Williams. He, Stroll, Guanyu, and Sargeant are easily the bottom quartile drivers on the grid and I don't think it is particularly close. Given how few seats we have in F1 and how closely guarded they are, it's honestly infuriating to me at this point to see them just taking up space and crashing themselves/others week after week. It would be easier to swallow if I were of the mindset of F1 a decade ago when getting new cars on the grid was a struggle. Now the teams are actively rejecting anyone who would constitute grid spots 21-26. I dunno, man. I'm going to the USGP in a month and I'm weirdly "unhyped". Almost like I'm looking for this to cap off my fandom and I ride into the sunset to enjoy anything else that doesn't actively resent my existence while charging me $650 for the privilege of a seat.
 
virtualbalboa said:
I honestly find people's sort of begrudging acceptance of Tsunoda as a guy who clearly is not deserving of one of the 20 seats in F1 astonishing. Clearly, and we all know this, he is only there because of Honda. His pace is not sufficient to justify his continued participation in a car faster than the Williams. He, Stroll, Guanyu, and Sargeant are easily the bottom quartile drivers on the grid and I don't think it is particularly close. Given how few seats we have in F1 and how closely guarded they are, it's honestly infuriating to me at this point to see them just taking up space and crashing themselves/others week after week. It would be easier to swallow if I were of the mindset of F1 a decade ago when getting new cars on the grid was a struggle. Now the teams are actively rejecting anyone who would constitute grid spots 21-26. I dunno, man. I'm going to the USGP in a month and I'm weirdly "unhyped". Almost like I'm looking for this to cap off my fandom and I ride into the sunset to enjoy anything else that doesn't actively resent my existence while charging me $650 for the privilege of a seat.
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F1 is starting see the bubble pop and this is why. A Netflix series with the most epic championship battle since Hunt/Lauda was a hell of a combination for explosion. But still, a lack of drama and non competitive racing will bring you down
 
Mispeedway15 said:
F1 is starting see the bubble pop and this is why. A Netflix series with the most epic championship battle since Hunt/Lauda was a hell of a combination for explosion. But still, a lack of drama and non competitive racing will bring you down
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I've been a fan almost my entire life. I didn't come into this last week and I've never even seen a single episode of Drive To Survive. Has F1 post Concorde Agreement always been a sort of cartel siphoning money off from various governments to make a buck? Yes. I don't deny it. But Liberty has optimized that to the stage where it resembles the worst aspects of both European club soccer and American team sports simultaneously. At least the NBA is saying "We'll expand to Seattle and Las Vegas and maybe two more cities" instead of what F1 is doing now. Every team seems to be matched with a specific manufacturer except a trio of scrub squads (Williams, whatever Toro Rosso will be named next year, Haas) that permanently have For Sale signs strapped to them with the expectations that GM, Toyota, or Hyundai buy one of them.
 
virtualbalboa said:
I honestly find people's sort of begrudging acceptance of Tsunoda as a guy who clearly is not deserving of one of the 20 seats in F1 astonishing. Clearly, and we all know this, he is only there because of Honda. His pace is not sufficient to justify his continued participation in a car faster than the Williams. He, Stroll, Guanyu, and Sargeant are easily the bottom quartile drivers on the grid and I don't think it is particularly close. Given how few seats we have in F1 and how closely guarded they are, it's honestly infuriating to me at this point to see them just taking up space and crashing themselves/others week after week. It would be easier to swallow if I were of the mindset of F1 a decade ago when getting new cars on the grid was a struggle. Now the teams are actively rejecting anyone who would constitute grid spots 21-26. I dunno, man. I'm going to the USGP in a month and I'm weirdly "unhyped". Almost like I'm looking for this to cap off my fandom and I ride into the sunset to enjoy anything else that doesn't actively resent my existence while charging me $650 for the privilege of a seat.
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I give Tsunoda some leeway because he only had one season each of F3 and F2 and AlphaTauri as a whole have gone backwards since signing him. There are times where he’s still very boneheaded, times where he shows good pace, but still just needs to find his composure and gain some consistency. I understand Honda backing him as much as they do too since Japanese drivers don’t come along too often on the F1 ladder. If it were up to me, he’d be placed alongside Lawson next year and Red Bull would proceed from there. Ultimately I’d much rather see young guys duke it out amongst themselves than bring in retreads like Raikkonen and Ricciardo.

Guanyu has been pretty respectable, I think. He isn’t going to be a world beater and does fairly well when the Alfa doesn’t actually break down. I think most understand he isn’t really part of the long-term outlook there either with Audi coming.

Sargeant I wanted to give a chance, but he’s torn up more equipment this year than anyone could’ve imagined, and hasn’t shown the pace to make up for it. At this point I’m ready for Drugovich or someone else to step in.

Stroll…yeah. Not much you can do there. Maybe Honda will have real influence over those seats come 2026. I think Lawrence has to decide whether he really cares about competing for a constructor’s title too. Even a driver’s title would likely require Lance to be quick enough to cover the #1 at times.

The Andretti stuff bothers me to end, because they’ve gotten major pieces and relationships in place to go do this and are being rebuffed while the likes of Mercedes are out there boasting record profits. There’s plenty of room to grow, 20 cars is historically pretty low for Formula 1.
 
The comments under this tweet….well I’m probably going to be flamed…. but those kinds of fans are the lowest common denominator fans and it really sucks that these are the type of people that Motorsports are trying to attract. You’ll never make new fans of people like that and frankly, imo you’re better off without them, let ‘em find the newest fad to turn on. It’s freaking Motorsports, like that in itself is the show…cars competing at super high speeds driven by the highest of talent. I just hope F1 doesn’t do something stupid to retain these morons like a playoff or stages or whatever else can be done to get these folks to pick up their noses from their phones. *Late 30’s rant over
 
Pretty mild comments compared to a lot of responses to results of NASCAR races.

Personally, I think your remarks are worse. Elitism is not pretty.
 
I don't know any new fans who are thinking "Boy, I want some more safety cars." They just want a more competitive race and the current regulations turned out to miss the mark wildly on what they were intended to accomplish.
 
I think Max masks how competitive the top half of the grid has gotten. If you removed him from all the results this year we’d have six different winners. On any given Sunday now you have Alonso, Checo, McLaren/Mercedes/Ferrari that are all fighting for podium spots.

Now, I don’t think they’re gonna do anything within the NASCAR realm of crazy, but the suggestions of a sort of BoP or idea that the FIA should start issuing a bunch technical directives aimed at Red Bill’s strengths are absurd, IMO. Fields typically tend to tighten up deeper into a regulations cycle, so it may take a bit of patience and see how these final two years shake out. The budget cap and sliding scale of aero testing are good concepts on paper and play into how this unfolds now too.

2021 was a perfect storm and I think it was only inevitable that interest would subside to a degree, but the series is still in a good position relative to where the sport was five years ago and the ingredients for sustained success are still there. This is an abnormally dominant and historic season by Max and Red Bull even by F1 standards so I wouldn’t write it all off just yet.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Now, I don’t think they’re gonna do anything within the NASCAR realm of crazy, but the suggestions of a sort of BoP or idea that the FIA should start issuing a bunch technical directives aimed at Red Bill’s strengths are absurd, IMO. Fields typically tend to tighten up deeper into a regulations cycle, so it may take a bit of patience and see how these final two years shake out. The budget cap and sliding scale of aero testing are good concepts on paper and play into how this unfolds now too.
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I think that’s dumb but it’s something they’ve always done to teams that exceed a little too much. Mercedes lost a lot of their advantage with the 2017 floor change regulation, along with a few others through Mercedes stronghold era.

But I think the FIA it’s on the right track with their seemingly regulation changes every 4 years or so now. The 2026 regs should reshuffle things again hopefully.
 
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www.theguardian.com

Jessica Hawkins becomes first female F1 test driver in five years

Aston Martin have confirmed that their driver ambassador Jessica Hawkins has become the first woman to drive a modern F1 car in almost five years
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
FLRacingFan said:
I think Max masks how competitive the top half of the grid has gotten. If you removed him from all the results this year we’d have six different winners. On any given Sunday now you have Alonso, Checo, McLaren/Mercedes/Ferrari that are all fighting for podium spots.

Now, I don’t think they’re gonna do anything within the NASCAR realm of crazy, but the suggestions of a sort of BoP or idea that the FIA should start issuing a bunch technical directives aimed at Red Bill’s strengths are absurd, IMO. Fields typically tend to tighten up deeper into a regulations cycle, so it may take a bit of patience and see how these final two years shake out. The budget cap and sliding scale of aero testing are good concepts on paper and play into how this unfolds now too.

2021 was a perfect storm and I think it was only inevitable that interest would subside to a degree, but the series is still in a good position relative to where the sport was five years ago and the ingredients for sustained success are still there. This is an abnormally dominant and historic season by Max and Red Bull even by F1 standards so I wouldn’t write it all off just yet.
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I'm not just talking about the fact that one team has this set of regs figured out, though that is part of it. It's more about the overall package with the cars. These cars do terribly hitting curbs compared to the pre-2022 cars, and they're significantly less nimble all the way around. With the shortening of DRS zones and the current aero package, F1 has also managed to reduce the DRS effectiveness to the point where teams have strategized around it. We wind up with these DRS trains now where no one can make a pass and everyone is stuck racing 7 tenths behind the next guy lap after lap, especially at the low downforce circuits.

I also find the management of the races by the FIA to be dreadful now. They're intentionally slow to react to accidents on track, but also willing to throw a red flag because they want to clean gravel up. It's absolute maddening
 
virtualbalboa said:
They just want a more competitive race and the current regulations turned out to miss the mark wildly on what they were intended to accomplish.
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I don't think so at all. The new regulations have brought the field much closer together. You never know who will be second behind Max going into a weekend.
Max is so far ahead because he's just so damn good. I would rank him above prime Lewis Hamilton and prime Sebastian Vettel .
 
donthaveanickname said:
I don't think so at all. The new regulations have brought the field much closer together. You never know who will be second behind Max going into a weekend.
Max is so far ahead because he's just so damn good. I would rank him above prime Lewis Hamilton and prime Sebastian Vettel .
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Idk about Lewis in his run, he actually had competition.

No disrespect towards Max, but yeah no one has been close in terms Red Bull for the past few years. He's been fantastic, however Lewis run had a bit more excitement due to Ferrari and Red Bull being competitive during that span. Not to mention the battles between Lewis and Nico.
 
donthaveanickname said:
I don't think so at all. The new regulations have brought the field much closer together. You never know who will be second behind Max going into a weekend.
Max is so far ahead because he's just so damn good. I would rank him above prime Lewis Hamilton and prime Sebastian Vettel .
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The stretches of all stretches.

Max is top tier level and he’s on an incredible run but let’s not blow past our skis here.

Max is that far ahead because of the car, mostly. He’s not out driving that Red Bull at all. He’s coasting in 95% of the races. That tells you all you need to know.


That said, every other team ****** up bad with these regs. Ferrari had something going on last year but they’ve regressed to be on par or just barely ahead of the Mercedes.
 
virtualbalboa said:
I don't know any new fans who are thinking "Boy, I want some more safety cars." They just want a more competitive race.....
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That's why I get a giggle out of people thinking pit stops are exciting. After you have seen 500 sub-three second stops, they all look the same. The only entertainment value is when something goes wrong. I also find cars going like hell to be more entertaining that having them sit still.

........and the current regulations turned out to miss the mark wildly on what they were intended to accomplish.
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The regulations were fine last year. The teams just found more downforce and made the turbulence bad again. The rules did not anticipate this. FIA needs to go back to the wind tunnel and cut turbulence again. That will solve a lot of problems, just like it did last year.
 
Kiante said:
Idk about Lewis in his run, he actually had competition.

No disrespect towards Max, but yeah no one has been close in terms Red Bull for the past few years. He's been fantastic, however Lewis run had a bit more excitement due to Ferrari and Red Bull being competitive during that span. Not to mention the battles between Lewis and Nico.
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Max, Lewis and Vettel all had the best car during their run, as did Schumacher and Senna.
Lewis is without a doubt a well-deserved 7-time champion but Nico was not at all regarded as a champion-caliber driver at the start of the hybrid era and he was pretty much on par with Lewis.
I think the reason Max has pretty much no competition is because he's just that good. A lot folks suggest Perez has forgotten how to drive but I'm not buying that. He has made some avoidable mistakes this season but he's not as awful as people make him out to be.
 
FLRacingFan said:
I give Tsunoda some leeway because he only had one season each of F3 and F2 and AlphaTauri as a whole have gone backwards since signing him. There are times where he’s still very boneheaded, times where he shows good pace, but still just needs to find his composure and gain some consistency. I understand Honda backing him as much as they do too since Japanese drivers don’t come along too often on the F1 ladder. If it were up to me, he’d be placed alongside Lawson next year and Red Bull would proceed from there. Ultimately I’d much rather see young guys duke it out amongst themselves than bring in retreads like Raikkonen and Ricciardo.

Guanyu has been pretty respectable, I think. He isn’t going to be a world beater and does fairly well when the Alfa doesn’t actually break down. I think most understand he isn’t really part of the long-term outlook there either with Audi coming.

Sargeant I wanted to give a chance, but he’s torn up more equipment this year than anyone could’ve imagined, and hasn’t shown the pace to make up for it. At this point I’m ready for Drugovich or someone else to step in.

Stroll…yeah. Not much you can do there. Maybe Honda will have real influence over those seats come 2026. I think Lawrence has to decide whether he really cares about competing for a constructor’s title too. Even a driver’s title would likely require Lance to be quick enough to cover the #1 at times.

The Andretti stuff bothers me to end, because they’ve gotten major pieces and relationships in place to go do this and are being rebuffed while the likes of Mercedes are out there boasting record profits. There’s plenty of room to grow, 20 cars is historically pretty low for Formula 1.
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Tsunoda has shown improvement over the last three seasons. I don't see him ending up in the Red Bull but he certainly is a candidate for Aston when they switch to Honda and with the way this season has gone I believe he'd be an improvement over Stroll who seems to have regressed a lot this season.
Joe Guanyu hasn't been far behind Bottas but Sauber has just not been impressive as a whole in recent years. I haven't watched F2 in three years so I can't really judge whether Pourchaire would be an improvement or not.

Sargeant is starting to be worse than Marzipan. I don't see any point in keeping him, I don't see a lot of potential in him and I also can't see how a 20th-place driver can help keep the American audience happy.
I'd love to see Mick in that ride but it seems like it won't happen. If I'm Liam Lawson I'm getting on the phone with Williams.
 
I see Williams giving Sargeant another season and sees if he puts it all together. He's had flashes, but has not quite put the whole kit together. Williams Academy driver might have a slightly longer leash. I think Vowles will see it through with him.

Which I think would be the smart move. I'm more of a proponent of giving drivers a second season unless it's awful running and performances.
 
Doc Austin said:
The regulations were fine last year. The teams just found more downforce and made the turbulence bad again. The rules did not anticipate this. FIA needs to go back to the wind tunnel and cut turbulence again. That will solve a lot of problems, just like it did last year.
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FIA, like any org, would like to find a set of regulations that works for more than a single year. I think they saw the cost cap as their manner of making this happen, but I do have a lot of questions about how that is being followed.
 
donthaveanickname said:
Max, Lewis and Vettel all had the best car during their run, as did Schumacher and Senna.
Lewis is without a doubt a well-deserved 7-time champion but Nico was not at all regarded as a champion-caliber driver at the start of the hybrid era and he was pretty much on par with Lewis.
I think the reason Max has pretty much no competition is because he's just that good. A lot folks suggest Perez has forgotten how to drive but I'm not buying that. He has made some avoidable mistakes this season but he's not as awful as people make him out to be.
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I first want to preface the paragraph that will follow this and the sentence I start it with being one which has generally been ruined by the internet, and a thing where it can actually be dangerous to blindly follow "what sounds good" in terms of review of a topic for which I have minimal or no real experience. But alas, it's what I've got for judgement, OK?

I've been doing some research independently to try and understand what is the situation both with the Red Bull and Max in terms of how and why he is so dominant and his teammate is struggling in the midpack. Scott Mansell is probably the one I've decided makes the most sense on the topic and is most reasonable. His take is that Red Bull's suspension geometry likely took away a good amount of feel from the car and it doesn't understeer to the degree that Perez (who as far back as GP2 clearly liked sliding the back end in corners) feels comfortable with. It feels much more twitchy and is tougher to commit to turns, in addition to the regs making running over curbs something that disrupts the car more because of all the downforce being generated from the floor. Max, on the other hand, apparently very quickly adjusted to racing this car and is not having the challenges in commitment to corner speed that Perez is.

Does that mean Max Verstappen is miles ahead of every driver in the history of F1? No. My first reaction to this is that it more mimics what he would sense in a simulator or playing R Factor 2/iRacing in that having lost that "feel the car holding/breaking traction through your ass" kinda sensation that many drivers have isn't as big a deal for him because he's relying more on the combination of fast twitch muscles and sheer bravery. It's a combination that might have gotten him killed early in his career were this the 50s-80s, but since it's 2023, he's in front. He's barely even dealing with heavy traffic. I don't know that it would benefit him to drive like that in anything other than a very high downforce race car at circuits with what feels like a 1/4 mile of runoff in all directions, but that's where he is. He may be the best adjusted for this era of F1, and that at the end of the day is what matters most.
 
virtualbalboa said:
FIA, like any org, would like to find a set of regulations that works for more than a single year. I think they saw the cost cap as their manner of making this happen, but I do have a lot of questions about how that is being followed.
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It's a constant battle between the sanction bodies and the teams. The teams always find ways to go faster, so the sanction body slaps them down with more rules and it starts all over again.

The FIA was on to a good thing with last year's package because it workeds so well. Red Bull checked out, but everyone else were able to race each other pretty easily. The teams have clawed a lot of downforce back, and also a lot of turbulence. FIA just needs to address this and order will be restored.
 
The FIA was always going to be the easier barrier to break through. The ball is in the court of Liberty/FOM now, who’ve shown resistance along with the teams.

Let’s make **** happen.

 
virtualbalboa said:
I'm not just talking about the fact that one team has this set of regs figured out, though that is part of it. It's more about the overall package with the cars. These cars do terribly hitting curbs compared to the pre-2022 cars, and they're significantly less nimble all the way around. With the shortening of DRS zones and the current aero package, F1 has also managed to reduce the DRS effectiveness to the point where teams have strategized around it. We wind up with these DRS trains now where no one can make a pass and everyone is stuck racing 7 tenths behind the next guy lap after lap, especially at the low downforce circuits.
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I certainly agree that the cars are way too big and heavy these days. A massive surface area itself makes for big aero wakes, and loss of downforce for the trailing cars.

Reportedly, in the last year of the previous set of regulations (2021), the cars lost 50% of their aero load in traffic, while it was 20% last season with the new cars. Now that the teams have clawed back downforce, that figure is back up to 35%. It was a positive initiative, but the floors being raised and general development by the teams has negated some of that effect. It’s just almost impossible for the FIA to stay ahead of the teams.

The most recent update for the 2026 cars is targeting both decrease length/width dimensions, less weight, and less downforce, which all sound promising. I’m still skeptical of the power unit regulations, but it seems we’re headed in the right direction with the rest of the car.

 
Doc Austin said:
It's a constant battle between the sanction bodies and the teams. The teams always find ways to go faster, so the sanction body slaps them down with more rules and it starts all over again.

The FIA was on to a good thing with last year's package because it worked so well. Red Bull checked out, but everyone else were able to race each other pretty easily. The teams have clawed a lot of downforce back, and also a lot of turbulence. FIA just needs to address this and order will be restored.
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I understand all of this, but I want to point out that the FIA spent a lot - a LOT - of time, effort and money to create regulations which they believed would over the long term benefit the overall competitiveness of F1 in addition to hyping the new regs up like I'd never seen a series do before. The opposite has happened, and in fact we have one of the most dominant runs in the history of the sport from Red Bull. Such is the dominance that it is hurting their viewership and social media metrics. I'm not one of the people who is going to expect every season to look like 2021, but I also realize that this level of investment and effort to basically wind up with an even less competitive version of the 2002 season will not be appealing to anyone. It's honestly worse in so much as the 2002 season would be done already, but today we have two more months of F1 in which Verstappen is probably going to dominate the field and win all 6 remaining races.

Obviously the FIA is going to be playing reactive Whack-A-Mole for the foreseeable future. I feel confident in having seen enough of Verstappen without being in the absolute best car for his talents to know that others can race him and win, but this is simply not that entertaining for a lot of people and I recognize that. I even see it in myself. I'm going to Austin and my enthusiasm is just shockingly low. I have to tell myself that what I'm there to see now is perhaps the best driver of this era mopping everyone up while coasting 95% of the time. Is that the best way to approach attending an event where the cost of ticket is north of $500? Ehh.
 
virtualbalboa said:
I understand all of this, but I want to point out that the FIA spent a lot - a LOT - of time, effort and money to create regulations which they believed would over the long term benefit the overall competitiveness of F1 in addition to hyping the new regs up like I'd never seen a series do before.
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And they got it as right as they could. Then the teams found more downforce and created more turbulence. The FIA did all the right things. They just didn'y go far enough and now they have to redo it.
virtualbalboa said:
The opposite has happened, and in fact we have one of the most dominant runs in the history of the sport from Red Bull.
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This happens every time they change the rules. Red Bull figured it out and no one else came close, but you can't legistlate that. You leave the rules alone and let everyone else get up to speed. I'm a big fan of rules stability.

I also don't thik the rules caused this domination directly. Newey is the last engineer left from the oiginal ground effects days. He has seen the porposing and other problems, and he had such a big head start, knowledge wise, that they started with an unsurrmountable advantage. This will become less as the others catch up, provided they leave the rules alone.

Last year's cars raced really, really well, so the FIA had the right idea. Now they just have to tweak it a bit to eliminate turbulence, or at least cut it back.
virtualbalboa said:
I have to tell myself that what I'm there to see now is perhaps the best driver of this era mopping everyone up while coasting 95% of the time. Is that the best way to approach attending an event where the cost of ticket is north of $500? Ehh.
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You may have been better off saving your money to go to the Petite. At least you know that's going to be competitive. 10 hours of fierce competition beats a 2 hour parade every time.
 
donthaveanickname said:
Max, Lewis and Vettel all had the best car during their run, as did Schumacher and Senna.
Lewis is without a doubt a well-deserved 7-time champion but Nico was not at all regarded as a champion-caliber driver at the start of the hybrid era and he was pretty much on par with Lewis.
I think the reason Max has pretty much no competition is because he's just that good. A lot folks suggest Perez has forgotten how to drive but I'm not buying that. He has made some avoidable mistakes this season but he's not as awful as people make him out to be.
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Max has put pretty much all of his teammates in a body bag by the end of their tenure. He thoroughly beat Sainz in his rookie year at Toro Rosso (and was promoted the next year in part because of the ensign that caused within the team), whipped Ricciardo as a 20 year-old in his third year at Red Bull, got Gasly demoted to Alpha Tauri, forced Albon out of the sport for a year, and is seemingly going to wind up retiring Perez. All of those guys have been well-regarded at one point or another; Perez was revered when he earned the Red Bull seat after being forced out at Racing Point, and Albon is currently regarded as one of the best drivers in the series after being labeled a bust. Max is just that good.
 
Doc Austin said:
And they got it as right as they could. Then the teams found more downforce and created more turbulence. The FIA did all the right things. They just didn'y go far enough and now they have to redo it.
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I guess from my perspective I find myself unable to believe that they will actually succeed. I think they're too dysfunctional in so many elements of how they are managing the series at this crucial point in it's existence for me to believe they'll do a good job. Call me a pessimist if you wish - I actually have significantly more faith that Indycar can get it's regs right if for no other reason than Indycar is owned and managed by someone with skin in the game. The FIA's is headed by a guy who, let's be honest here, is in his position because of his family's inherited wealth (and a government that ensures any wealth created there can also be his). You hire and promote incompetent people, you get incompetent leadership.

Doc Austin said:
I also don't thik the rules caused this domination directly. Newey is the last engineer left from the oiginal ground effects days. He has seen the porposing and other problems, and he had such a big head start, knowledge wise, that they started with an unsurrmountable advantage. This will become less as the others catch up, provided they leave the rules alone.
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One thing I find amusing about this is that Newey established his chops in the US, where aerodynamics always mattered more than European racing thanks to our love of ovals. Just to tie it in, I think about how "Andretti will fail miserably" from so many people within F1 and really, really, really would like to get a 4-5 year window to see if that's the case.

But I digress. I don't think it's the rules they set being at fault here so much as their expectations that they had something which was essentially fool proof. I also don't love the idea of rules that specifically just act as a BOP for Red Bull since I don't see that as the whole issue. Spa being a boring race was more all encompassing of the issues the series is having.

Doc Austin said:
You may have been better off saving your money to go to the Petite. At least you know that's going to be competitive. 10 hours of fierce competition beats a 2 hour parade every time.
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I've got a friend who lives 30 minutes away or so and this has been in the works since 2019. I had originally planned to go in 2021 and cancelled my flights about a week before late because the expected "Tickets are always $100 week of" not only didn't happen, but COTA sold out entirely at a level multiples of that. 2022 I had a wedding I was a groomsman in, and 2020 was, uhhh, let's just forget about that year. You can't beat it from a cost effectiveness standpoint when it's an award flight and a free place to stay and work out of at least in the post-Netflix era.
 
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