2018 Supercross Season

Discussion in 'Motorcycle Racing' started by Hotrod, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. gnomesayin

    gnomesayin Team Owner

    That's been the strong rumor, not sure if it has been made completely official. I don't really follow it regularly either. While the races end up on tape-delayed TV a week or two later, it is likely there is no actual TV money flowing in. More likely the TV production is an added expense and the goal is to gain more exposure. It probably functions financially a lot like short track racing, with the two sources being back gate participant fees and front gate admissions. Renting the arenas and building the tracks can't be cheap.

    I don't think it makes a lot of sense to have Supercross and Arenacross happening simultaneously with little coordination. Maybe it would draw a bit more attention if they ran it from October to January as a precursor to the SX season? Maybe another promoter will pick up the idea and it will be back in some form.
     
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  2. LewTheShoe

    LewTheShoe Team Owner

    I really hate the Triple Crown format. If there is legitimate concern that heat races dilute the quality of the overall evening, then I'd suggest two full-length mains per class. I watched the event despite the format, not because of it.

    Plus, it is folly to designate "crown jewel" events. Certain races earn exalted status over time, and then are recognized for it. You can't just pick a race and anoint it as a crown jewel, IMO. If Supercross has a crown jewel, it is Daytona... but I doubt even that qualifies. [Note to Monster Energy... a Crown Jewel Trophy comprising the Daytona 500, the World 600, the Southern 500, and the Brickyard 400 would be a kick-ass great idea.]

    I also hate the flat, Nascar-esque point system used by SX and MX. The point system is designed to keep it close. Given the thin field, I can feel the problems, but I hate that solution. I'll bet Eli Tomac does too..:D
     
    Greg likes this.
  3. gnomesayin

    gnomesayin Team Owner

    A two moto format certainly has a lot of precedent in MX and would make sense. My main problem with the Triple Crown is that the first main feels much like a heat race, just with everyone in it and of a great deal more importance. Barring a weather event, the track will be fairly 'green' and in great shape. While the start is always important, here it is nearly everything. Most of the field can ride a newly groomed track well, and it's going to be mostly one-groove until the optimal line degrades and others open up. I would compare it to dirt track oval racing, where you will often find that everyone is fast when the track is tacky, but by the time it goes dry slick, that is when the real skill emerges.

    I have enjoyed the intensity of the Triple Crown format, but it doesn't make much sense. The third main is the real test in my eyes, and Tomac got lucky to win the overall on Saturday, as he was plainly not the best in the last two mains.

    However, with the somewhat thin fields they currently have, heat races in which the top 9 transfer are a bore. I actually preferred the heats plus semis format the 450s were using pre-2018. There is a huge difference for top riders in having to make the top 4 to advance straight to the main rather than the top 9, and there was some hard racing for those spots. But that format seemed to be less popular than this one is.

    I agree that the points scale is too flat. I might be able to have time to do some math later, but while I bet Tomac might be within striking distance in a more weighted points scale, Anderson has been so consistent with the top 3s and 4s that he would still likely have this championship sewn up barring disaster, which is as it should be. While Tomac has won 7, Anderson has won 4, and has many more podiums that weren't wins.
     
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  4. gnomesayin

    gnomesayin Team Owner

    Having said that, Tomac's 2017 campaign was much more impressive and should have won him the championship on paper. Except that Dungey's approach may have been different at times under a different format. I still have a bad taste in my mouth from watching Musquin dutifully pull over for Dungey in the second to last race though. Ugh.
     
  5. LewTheShoe

    LewTheShoe Team Owner

    ^ Yeah, I agree. But I also have a bad taste from seeing Tomac chasing after the strategic-riding Dungey and trying his best to take him out... a desperate example of dirty riding. No bueno.

    BTW, if you recast the math, try the F1 scale, with 25 to win down to 1 point for 10th. That would be appropriate IMO. Even better would be the classic F1 scale... 10, 6, 4, 3, 2, 1. (However, I agree that recasting historical results is always questionable, because racers do indeed respond to incentives in the championship format.)
     
  6. kyle18fan

    kyle18fan Team Owner


    Nobody likes to have their nose rubbed in the team mate crap
     
  7. gnomesayin

    gnomesayin Team Owner

    As it stands now in 2018 Supercross points, which were slightly modified this season:

    Anderson 311
    Musquin 272
    Tomac 246

    Using the current F1 points system:

    Anderson 244
    Tomac 215
    Musquin 189


    So Tomac would be closer, with the 65-point gap down to 29, but that's still a large lead. Musquin is the one who has benefited the most from the flatter points scale that over-rewards mid-pack finishes.
     
  8. gnomesayin

    gnomesayin Team Owner

    Apologies, I should have double-checked my math above. Generally what I described holds, but I was off on Tomac's and Musquin's totals. Here are the correct numbers using the current F1 system:

    Anderson 244
    Tomac 208
    Musquin 199

    And classic F1 points:

    Anderson 81
    Tomac 80
    Musquin 63

    Now there it gets interesting. Funny that sometimes the systems designed to keep things close do exactly the opposite.
     
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  9. gnomesayin

    gnomesayin Team Owner

    Setting up to be a good battle between Musquin and Tomac here, with Anderson unable to keep pace in 3rd, but not really needing to either.
     
  10. gnomesayin

    gnomesayin Team Owner

    Whoa. Marvin needs to be aggressive, but not like that. That will make for some interesting drama going forward.
     
  11. AndyMarquisLive

    AndyMarquisLive Short Track Fanatic

    Man, Eli Tomac should've kicked his ass.
     
  12. gnomesayin

    gnomesayin Team Owner

    He seemed content to seek payback on a different day. Will be interesting. I like Musquin, but that move may hurt him more in the long run.
     
  13. AndyMarquisLive

    AndyMarquisLive Short Track Fanatic

    He needs to pull a Scott Speed in the season finale.

    "He's not gonna win the championship with that attitude."
     
  14. KTMLew01

    KTMLew01 Team Owner

    Chad Reed did that to Bubba at least half dozen times. People blamed Bubba...
     
    DUN24 likes this.
  15. gnomesayin

    gnomesayin Team Owner

    There are plenty blaming Tomac now too, to the extent that he "left the door open". You're kinda always open to being T-boned if the guy behind you is close enough and desperate enough.

    While most press conferences are a bore, this one hardly is. :D



    It is interesting to note that Tomac uses the words "race fixing" with regard to Musquin pulling over for Dungey last year. I've always believed that feeling, right or wrong, contributed to Tomac's behavior in the finale with the questionable tactics trying to force Dungey to fall.
     
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  16. gnomesayin

    gnomesayin Team Owner

    I went to Portland Arenacross tonight, was a fun time. Pretty good racing, and a visceral thrill to see this form of racing that close up. My six-year-old son even thought it was cool, and his patience for most racing is...still developing.


    [​IMG]
     
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  17. KTMLew01

    KTMLew01 Team Owner

    Anderson goes down in first turn. Tomac's footpeg ripped out Andersons front spokes. Had to pit for front wheel replacement. Took 2 laps. Anderson likely to finish 21st.
     
  18. KTMLew01

    KTMLew01 Team Owner

    Moosecan wins. Tomac 2nd. Anderson 17th. Could have won championship tonight.
     
  19. gnomesayin

    gnomesayin Team Owner

    Dammit, why the hell did I come here to get spoiled? Oh well, will still be fun to watch.
     
  20. KTMLew01

    KTMLew01 Team Owner

    Race was just on TV? Not sure why it's so early. Anderson still has 14 point lead going into last race.
     
  21. gnomesayin

    gnomesayin Team Owner

    No, I'm not complaining about anyone but myself. Working and unable to watch until later, forgot it was an earlier race.

    If this puts Marvin well within reach of Anderson, and Tomac didn't get payback today, Vegas should be fun.
     
  22. Greg

    Greg 2014 RF YAHOO CHAMP Your leader

    I would like to see Tomac win the thing.
    Buy I think Anderson has done a better job overall and is deserving. Definitely not as fast, but justified based on the discipline.
     
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  23. Privateer

    Privateer Car Chief

    Tomac is guaranteed to finish 3rd. Can't go up, can't go down.
     
  24. gnomesayin

    gnomesayin Team Owner

    Final round tonight. Moved from FS1 to FS2 because of baseball, at least for now.
     
  25. DUN24

    DUN24 Skeptical of the Spectacle

    Last round of the season and it’s the 250 east/west showdown and the 250 heats aren’t shown. Smh.
     
  26. KTMLew01

    KTMLew01 Team Owner

    They were on my TV. FS2. Now on FS1.
     
  27. DUN24

    DUN24 Skeptical of the Spectacle

    Well yeah, mine too. Not everyone is that fortunate though. Some can’t watch live and are going to get home and have half the race missing from their recording.
     
  28. KTMLew01

    KTMLew01 Team Owner

    OK. Didn't think of that.
     
  29. DUN24

    DUN24 Skeptical of the Spectacle

    Congrats to Jason Anderson, Aaron Plessinger, and Zach Osborne... Dominant performance by Anderson in particular but I gotta wonder what if in regards to Tomac and Roczen. Tomac had 3 or 4 races that should have gone way better than expected and Kenny got injured in a ridiculous way.


    San Diego was rough. Ugh. Glad I got tickets for free that night.
     
  30. gnomesayin

    gnomesayin Team Owner

    Coasting to a fifth place finish nearly 40 seconds off the leader is smart, but it's not dominant. However, Anderson was far and away the steadiest rider this season. Tomac and Musquin both committed too many unforced errors earlier in the season that cost them the chance to truly push Anderson. It would have been interesting to see how Anderson would race if he had to push harder, but given the points situation and system in place, he didn't have to. A very strong and smartly conducted season from him.

    I'm looking forward to the outdoor season and to next year with what should be a deeper 450 class with injured riders back and several moving up from the 250 ranks.
     
  31. DUN24

    DUN24 Skeptical of the Spectacle

    True that Anderson was obviously not the fastest. He was dominant when it comes to consistency I guess is what I was getting at. He rattled off top fives every weekend while the competition was all over the place.


    I say the same thing every year, but I hope the attrition rate is much lower next season.
     
  32. Clutch

    Clutch Team Owner

    I watched the race and enjoyed seeing the Anderson interview. I thought it was great!
     
  33. KTMLew01

    KTMLew01 Team Owner

    Anderson left the press conference early because he was sick as a dog. https://www.vitalmx.com/forums/Moto-Related,20/Jason-post-race,1339206
     
  34. gnomesayin

    gnomesayin Team Owner

    Tomac won the million last night at MEC, but his new teammate Savatgy pulled over for him on the last lap to let him by to do it, somewhat marring a dominant and fantastic ride by Tomac in the third main after he didn't get a good start. Tomac may have done whatever it took to get around Savatgy anyway for a million bucks, but it wasn't a good luck to have Joey waving him by with a few turns to go. Ugh. I see a lot of people who were fine with Musquin pulling over for Dungey a couple years ago bitching last night. To me, you're either fine with both or opposed to both. I don't like any case of one competitor pulling over for another, but I understand why it happened last night. Savatgy was much more impressive on the 450 Kawi than anyone thought he could be.
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2018
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  35. DUN24

    DUN24 Skeptical of the Spectacle

    Not nearly as bad as Musquin pulling over. This wasn't a championship event with such implications like the KTM shenanigans. It would be a terrible look for Savatgy to screw his brand new team mate out of a mil. Him finishing second did not change the result at all. He helped a fan win a million bucks and had a great debut.



    How about that 711 on the super mini!!! Great racing all night.
     
  36. gnomesayin

    gnomesayin Team Owner

    I somewhat see your point. MEC is basically a standalone exhibition race. Another difference is that Tomac was plainly faster than Savatgy, while Dungey wasn't faster than Musquin at that race in 2017. Nonetheless, it isn't a good look in any context. The issue is Savatgy had much more to gain in the long run by letting Tomac by. I also don't see how Tomac wouldn't have plowed him anyway for that payday.
     
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  37. DUN24

    DUN24 Skeptical of the Spectacle

    I bet Tomac cuts Joey a check :D
     
  38. gnomesayin

    gnomesayin Team Owner

    Interesting. Would be nice in some ways to have the indoor and outdoor seasons on the same networks to allow for more cross-promotion.

     
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  39. LewTheShoe

    LewTheShoe Team Owner

    ^ It will also be interesting to see what FS1 plans for Saturday evenings, January through April. Isn't the company down to basically just Fox, Fox Sports, and Fox News after selling off most everything else? I might have that wrong. But if I'm right on that, wouldn't Fox be expected to devote a lot of resources toward building up FS1?
     
  40. gnomesayin

    gnomesayin Team Owner

    I'm not sure. College basketball seems likely. Is there a WWE thing on Saturday nights now that Fox is involved with that :rolleyes:?

    I prefer NBC's coverage of outdoor motocross to Fox Sports' Supercross telecasts. Weigandt and Langston are a good announcing team. However, it is arguable that FS1's showier approach fits Supercross. I would welcome a little more serious coverage. Ralph Shaheen has had a fine motorsports broadcast career, and his enthusiasm is genuine, but he is lacking in knowledge and makes a lot of mistakes. I will miss the lovely Jenny Taft, who has sadly been 'promoted' to hosting the awful Skip Bayless talk show. What a waste of a solid reporter.

    I find it odd that A1 is about 8 weeks away, and nobody knows for certain where it will air.
     
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