2019 ABC Supply 500

Kiante said:
I've watched that accident multiple times from many angles. Its a racing incident, I think folks think Sato turned down into Rossi. He didn't, Sato's wheel was straight and he did not turn into him. Sato is seen as a scapegoat more times than not for accidents.

He had a run on Rossi and the mistake was trying to go through the tunnel turn three wide. Yet, if you look closely from Rahal's POV, RHR kind of turns to the right some squeezing Rossi. Then causing Rossi to kind of float to the right some collecting Sato and everyone else. Rossi got off to a bad start, it happens, but I think this can be considered a racing incident. Still, Sato's reputation kind of makes him an easy target. Sato would have completed the pass before the tunnel turn, but its just a bad racing incident more than anything else. A little more patience shown by all and not trying to get everything on lap 1. I like this crop of drivers, after losing Wilson and Wickens getting hurt has really tarnished the reputation Pocono had for IndyCar.

The race was fairly clean from then on. Pocono should not go anywhere, it should continue to be on the calendar. Adding Richmond and maybe like a Homestead, Fontana, or even Michigan would balance the schedule.
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Looks a lot less black and white there although I still think at the last second before contact Sato is leaning slightly left. Last one there is usually supposed to be the first to back out too. I guess we’ll see what the series decides this week, they have the data.

Biggest difference makers going forward IMO would be single-file starts, secondary spotters not on a flatbed in the infield, better catchfencing (IMS has more cabling), and drivers just being smarter and more sensible. Anyone could’ve backed out there and stopped from going three-wide into the Tunnel Turn.
 
Kiante said:
I've watched that accident multiple times from many angles. Its a racing incident, I think folks think Sato turned down into Rossi. He didn't, Sato's wheel was straight and he did not turn into him. Sato is seen as a scapegoat more times than not for accidents.

He had a run on Rossi and the mistake was trying to go through the tunnel turn three wide. Yet, if you look closely from Rahal's POV, RHR kind of turns to the right some squeezing Rossi. Then causing Rossi to kind of float to the right some collecting Sato and everyone else. Rossi got off to a bad start, it happens, but I think this can be considered a racing incident. Still, Sato's reputation kind of makes him an easy target. Sato would have completed the pass before the tunnel turn, but its just a bad racing incident more than anything else. A little more patience shown by all and not trying to get everything on lap 1. I like this crop of drivers, after losing Wilson and Wickens getting hurt has really tarnished the reputation Pocono had for IndyCar.

The race was fairly clean from then on. Pocono should not go anywhere, it should continue to be on the calendar. Adding Richmond and maybe like a Homestead, Fontana, or even Michigan would balance the schedule.
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Yep I agree mostly. Racing is split second thinking and judgements. I didn't see what any of them did that was so grievously wrong, nobody was darting around. They were getting set up for the turn and they touched during close quarters racing. But Patience in racing is in short supply.
 
The drivers will decide if they keep racing at Pocono, but as said above it will require more patience.

Going three wide on the first lap is just stupidity.

Will Powers’ pass on the turn on the 2nd restart didn’t result in a wreck but it could have.

They raced fairly clean for most of the race except for a couple bonehead moments that easily could have been avoided.

I would lean towards the racers being too stupid to make it work.
 
I’d say what these guys need is single file restarts here. Also I notice at Texas usually they slide up into the wall, whereas at your flatter tracks these cars simply get airborne. Kentucky would be perfect for Indy I think as would Richmond. But these long straights are bad news bears
 
Reck said:
I think Pocono should be replace with Fontana. This track is too wide and these cars go way too fast to react to anything.
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I thought that initially, but is it any worse than Indy? They get wadded up going into 1 on the first lap at that track too.
 
FLRacingFan said:
The drivers definitely have to treat the track and themselves with more respect though......
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Which is exactly what Ferrucci said, almost word for word. As far as respect and taking care of each other, listen to the Ferrucci interview. He sounded more like Rick Mears than the guy everyone was afraid of last year. He also drove a magnificent race and once again finishes ahead of his four time champion teammate. He has been the most exciting guy in the series this year.

Last year the rookie caused the problem, but this year it was an Indy 500 champion. Sato is unbeatable on his day, but he goes crazy way too often to mount any sort of championship challenge. It also never makes sense when he goes ape. First lap of 500 miles? I actually like Sato, but his reputation of taking people out in crazy crashes is well earned. I was just hoping after winning Indy he was over it.

IndyCar on superspeedways is inherently dangerous but a lot of the truly bad stuff is due to avoidable contact.
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And thank God because that's the way it's supposed to be. Everyone knew going in that racing at 230 mph can get you killed, so all the crying now is a bit empty. Everyone is all freaked out over an accident that merely bruised one driver. Now if you get a bruise the danger is too unacceptable? It was a crazy looking accident, but no one really got hurt, Rosenquist would have probably gotten hurt far worse in a simple bicycle crash. I mean, Rosenquist didn't even get a scratched knee, so why is there such a blind panic to rip the guts out of the schedule?

If you can't handle the speed and the danger, there are other great series to race in. Indycar has it's roots in high speed danger, and to try to take that away will fundamentally change (as in neuter) the sport. Look at how safe F1 is, and then look at how pitiful it is, and what a bunch of p*ssy snowflakes they all are. I don't want Indycar to ever get that lame.

You eliminate the dangers you can eliminate, and then you shut up and go race, or you don't. The only unacceptable danger on superspeedways are still the fences. They either need to find something else or raise the walls. I think it's odd that people are calling for Pocono to get the axe when we knew in 2011 the fences will kill you. What the hell have they done with the fences besides nothing? We get this song and dance about how important safety is, then they ignore the biggest danger.

Name the last time someone got really injured without getting into the fence. Yeah, it's been awhile. Indycar and superspeedway racing is actually an inherently safe sport, and no one freaks out until there's a chance you can hit the fence. Advances in safety have been made in just about every area, though the real problem remains.

Incredibly, the rookie who was a hothead in Europe (Ferrucci) seems to grasp this a lot better than many.
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All of that was a farce. He simply tapped his teammate so gently you can't even see the contact on the video. It was nothing. They acted like Ferrucci was trying to kill everyone there, right after they ignored Vettel deliberately trying to take Hamilton out under yellow at Baku. They ignore drivers crashing into each other on a straight piece of road at 200 mph, and everyone pretends it's ok. But when an American does it, drop the hammer on him.

The real proof here is Ferucci has not (that I can recall) put a wheel wrong since he has come home, so if he is such an incompetent hothead, he would have had a problem by now. I think the truth is this is the picture the eurodousches wanted, and that's the way they painted it. Fake news all the way.
 
The thing about Pocono is that there are no grandstands in the turns, so high walls there would not block anyone's vision. They could easily raise the walls and no one would notice. However, with only 25,000 fans showing up, there probably isn't the money for that.

We are going to have to live with the fences, probably forever because they are paid for and any solution would be too much money.
 
Doc Austin said:
The thing about Pocono is that there are no grandstands in the turns, so high walls there would not block anyone's vision. They could easily raise the walls and no one would notice. However, with only 25,000 fans showing up, there probably isn't the money for that.

We are going to have to live with the fences, probably forever because they are paid for and any solution would be too much money.
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Pocono allegedly does have shorter walls than a place like IMS so that could be improved upon. IMS also apparently has tighter fencing, especially on the lower side. But like you said, does Pocono have the budget to upgrade those areas? I wouldn’t bet on it.

It is interesting to see how quickly the narrative has shifted. A lot of pressure to come back has built up as the drivers have shouldered more of the blame and called for more respect and sensibility, and attendance and sponsorship increased. That’s in addition to the race already being one of the series’ most-watched events on TV. Quite a predicament.



 
FLRacingFan said:
Pocono allegedly does have shorter walls than a place like IMS so that could be improved upon. IMS also apparently has tighter fencing, especially on the lower side. But like you said, does Pocono have the budget to upgrade those areas? I wouldn’t bet on it.

It is interesting to see how quickly the narrative has shifted. A lot of pressure to come back has built up as the drivers have shouldered more of the blame and called for more respect and sensibility, and attendance and sponsorship increased. That’s in addition to the race already being one of the series’ most-watched events on TV. Quite a predicament.



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Glad Pocono's attendance, history and tv viewership is making it hard on IndyCar. Pocono has a very loyal following and has since they use to race semi's on the front straight. If nothing else, take a year off and commit to 2021 with some safety upgrades. The year off would only increase demand.
 
Oval fans don't want to hear it but the Pocono infield is always an option. It's not like it's a 'true' oval anyway. If they added Richmond instead of swapping them, that would help maintain the balance between R/Cs, ovals, and streets.
 
I don't get the freak out about Pocono and safety. Don't get me wrong........if they can make it safer, and find a way to pay for it, I approve. I don't approve of yanking the race off the schedule because of the wreck last weekend where no one was hurt at all.

Sure, Wilson got killed here a few years ago, but that accident could have happened anywhere Next year we are going to have the aeroscreen anyway (which we are assured would have saved Wilson), so that accident can't even be considered any more. Shouldn't be a factor or we are going to have to pull Road America off the schedule, because people have been killed there too, and Texas, and St. Pete, and even Indianapolis. Yeah, and even Mid Ohio. There are probably a few more too, if not all of them. Racing is dangerous. If you take every race off the schedule where someone has been killed, nothing would be left.

What is worth freaking out over are the fences, and this applies to every circuit on the schedule. We've known since 2011 (and even earlier) that the fence can kill people. After Las Vegas, there was a big song and dance about addressing the problem, but I have not seen a peep about it since. Fencing is the one area of safety that has never been addressed, or maybe they just gave up on it because there isn't a good answer. Maybe they gave up on it because any solution would cost more money that the tracks can spend.

No matter what they can come up with, that still means replacing millions and millions of dollars of fencing on every oval in the country. Once a better way is found, those tracks that don't have the money to follow suit will just get dropped, and eventually even the little bullrings will be forced by insurance companies to ether spend millions or close the doors.

Eventually oval racing will simply disappear because there won't be the money to implement any "solutions,"

Is the level of danger acceptable, or is it too much? The rap on Pocono was Wilson's death (which could have happened in any open wheeled car anywhere on the planet) and then Wickens' accident, which was completely avoidable. Even at that, there was no freak out until Sato caused a five car pile up that didn't put a scratch on anyone. People were already wigged out and Sunday's pile up was all they needed to call for an end to super speedway racing, or at least eliminate the one of two we have left.

Pocono is not any more inherently dangerous than anywhere else. If we let the chicken littles kill off Pocono, you know what's next, right? Indianapolis. Are we ready to lose that?

Is there a solution? Sure, if you have enough money. Short of that I think raising the walls to 20 feet, or maybe even 30, would keep the cars out of the parking lot, but then you couldn't see anything. To get around that, have a closed event with no spectators, and put it on PPV. That's the future we are looking at. Either we continue with ineffective fencing, or we run tracks out of business requiring expensive fencing technology that doesn't yet exist, or we simply close all the oval tracks.

It's probably far better to jut enjoy what we have because even as supposedly dangerous as this is, one death per decade is not exactly a death parade. Where we are at now is that even though no one so much as got a scratch last Sunday, the chicken little types were ready to pounce as soon as the cars rolled off the trailer. If we are going to be that paranoid, maybe it really is time to take the drivers out of the cars and do the whole thing on playstation.

The idea that no one can ever get hurt, ever, ever, ever is simply blindly naïve. You do what you can do minimize that risk as much as you can, and then you either suck it up and race, or you don't.
 
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Charlie Spencer said:
Oval fans don't want to hear it but the Pocono infield is always an option.
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Except that wouldn't be super speedway racing. Virtually no one would care about the Pocono roval. Hardly anyone cares about the Indy roval, and that's Indianapolis!

It's not like it's a 'true' oval anyway
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It's still a super speedway, and right now we are down to just two of them. You can bet once Pocono is gone the paranoid are going to want Indy killed off too. Are we ready for that?,

If they added Richmond instead of swapping them, that would help maintain the balance between R/Cs, ovals, and streets.
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Except there is no balance. We have a grand total of 5 ovals and the rest are road races. You can try to count street races as something different, built they are still road races. There are not three different types of tracks. There are ovals and road courses. Therefore, the schedule should really be half ovals if you want a true balance.

If you want Indycar to remain Indycar, we need more super speedways. How can you have Indycars, bred and born on the super speedway not racing on super speedways? We really do need Michigan, Fontana, Phoenix and Milwaukee back on the schedule.
 
Ovals are just harder to make work financially than road courses and street circuits these days. I would expect Chicagoland to be the next one they go back to after Richmond though. Iowa seems a little shaky, they can't seem to draw for any series anymore. So 6-7 is probably going to be the ceiling.
 
Pocono is just another version of IMS which is why it's perfect for IndyCar.

That said Phoenix had horrible attendance. Milwaukee Mile would be great but of course Road America is there.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Ovals are just harder to make work financially than road courses and street circuits these days. I would expect Chicagoland to be the next one they go back to after Richmond though. Iowa seems a little shaky, they can't seem to draw for any series anymore. So 6-7 is probably going to be the ceiling.
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Can't argue that any of that, but Chicago is still super fast and cars have gotten into the fence there too. In today's snowflake culture, you can bet the butthurt will come fast and sure, even before the race starts. I'de love to see them go back, but that video of Briscoe in the fence will never go away.

Indycar lost a lot of it's oval fan base during the nasty 1996-2007 era. It was very destructive and few of them have ever came back. We all remember people spilling out of the grandstands at Pocono, Phoenix, Milwaukee and Michigan, so what happened to that other than people got fed up with all the hate right when nascar started to get fun?

Today Indycar racing is faster and more competitive than ever before, and we currently have a big crop of savage young studs coming up. There's every reason to watch, and yet it's a big deal when a 500 mile race draws 25,000 people? I think we are still paying for the split.

If Indycar wants to keep up, they can't go slower or race at lamer places. We have to go faster and create more excitement. The racing is already so good that nothing more can be done. The excitement has to come from the speed, and yes, the danger. Otherwise, it's too easy to turn on nascar and watch an all American field of drivers in cars everyone recognizes.
 
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