2020 Cup Series Camaro ZL1 1LE

Why am I hearing Robert Duval's speech to the car from Days of Thunder in my head right now? ;)

I thought the same thing when I saw the pic :D I'm going to give you an engine, low to the ground, extra big oil pan to cut the wind underneath. It will give you 30 40 more horsepower. I'm going to shape you like a bullet :D

 
There is a puddle of drool right next to his left foot as he mutters, "Thank you NASCAR, thank you NASCAR, thank you NASCAR." Tremendous pressure. You don't win with this, I contend that you really suck. I cannot imagine what NASCAR gave them.

Well, we know they didn't give back all the horsepower that they took away (allegedly at TRD's behest) years ago. I love your passion, @Revman . We need fans as engaged as you. That said, is this really the hill to die on? If we're going to deal in inuendo and rumor, then that would be a can of worms that a TRD fan would prefer stay closed I'd think...
 
OK, you've lost me. You said you wanted him to stay at HMS, but Rick said no. I believe he absolutely could have stayed at HMS, he just would have had to wait a year for a full time ride. Rick didn't want to lose him. Brad was the one that decided to talk to Roger. I am not saying, nor would I say that was a bad move, just that it was Brad's decision to move on from HMS. I was a fan of Brad, and didn't want him to leave either, but I've grown a little weary of hearing him keep bringing up how bent out of shape he was about not getting the 5 car when he was supposedly promised. He's been pretty snarky about HMS ever since, and I'm a little tired of it. Given the option of putting a future Hall of Famer who just won a bunch of races and nearly won a championship for you for one more year, or putting in a largely unproven rookie in, I think that was a pretty obvious choice. History has shown that Rick takes care of his people, and he would have taken care of Brad, but he decided to take another offer. It worked out a lot better for him than it did HMS, so I don't know what he has to be unhappy about.
For someone like J.Gordon or others whose family could afford it,, what your suggesting may be OK. I don't see any drivers opting to spend another year in Xfinity. Brad was rowing another boat, he needed MONEY to help his whole family and he needed it now. What would you say to Brad if he stayed in Xfinity and got hurt bad enough to close out his career. "To Bad" ????
Brad had no choice but go for the money ride.
 
For someone like J.Gordon or others whose family could afford it,, what your suggesting may be OK. I don't see any drivers opting to spend another year in Xfinity. Brad was rowing another boat, he needed MONEY to help his whole family and he needed it now. What would you say to Brad if he stayed in Xfinity and got hurt bad enough to close out his career. "To Bad" ????
Brad had no choice but go for the money ride.

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Well, a couple of things. After seeing what Rick did for Kasey Kahne and for Alex Bowman, do you not think Rick would have taken care of Brad? At the very least he probably could have gotten quite of bit of work driving for Finch again, and probably got paid some retainer from HMS too, PLUS possibly picking up some Xfinity rides. The Cup cars he drove in 2009 earned a total of 1.6 million, so unless he had the worst deal in the history of racing, he shouldn't have been missing any meals. All I'm saying is it was HIS CHOICE to walk away from HMS, whatever the reason was. In all the interviews and comments I have heard him make about the situation, I've never once heard him mention money. All I have heard him mention is how he got his feelings hurt because Rick decided to let Mark stay in the 5 car one more year. Remember too that hindsight is 20/20. Brad hadn't won an Xfinity title yet, and he had managed to make a lot of enemies in his short career to that point. Obviously Rick saw something in him, as did Roger, but I don't know that a lot of people were beating down the doors to hire him. I remember a LOT of people thinking Penske was making a bad move.
 
For someone like J.Gordon or others whose family could afford it,, what your suggesting may be OK. I don't see any drivers opting to spend another year in Xfinity. Brad was rowing another boat, he needed MONEY to help his whole family and he needed it now. What would you say to Brad if he stayed in Xfinity and got hurt bad enough to close out his career. "To Bad" ????
Brad had no choice but go for the money ride.
Jeff Gordon Derangement Syndrome
 
Brad hadn't won an Xfinity title yet, and he had managed to make a lot of enemies in his short career to that point. Obviously Rick saw something in him, as did Roger, but I don't know that a lot of people were beating down the doors to hire him. I remember a LOT of people thinking Penske was making a bad move.
You need to improve your memory or quit being prejudiced. Brad hadn't won xfinity title yet??? Your kidding right. Xfinity at the time was the best of Cup drivers driving Cup team cars. He also had to fend off Hamlin who blatantly was wrecking him and bragging on live TV about in advance of the race.
And lets not forget Mr. Edwards who at the time tried to wreck Brad or push him below the line. I think HMS and those Chevy cars has you blinded to what is happening in real life.
 
You need to improve your memory or quit being prejudiced. Brad hadn't won xfinity title yet??? Your kidding right. Xfinity at the time was the best of Cup drivers driving Cup team cars. He also had to fend off Hamlin who blatantly was wrecking him and bragging on live TV about in advance of the race.
And lets not forget Mr. Edwards who at the time tried to wreck Brad or push him below the line. I think HMS and those Chevy cars has you blinded to what is happening in real life.

I'm not deranged at all. I liked Brad, I thought almost right away after he got into Jr's cars that he could be something special, and I WANTED him to end up in the 5 car. I fully understand the level of competition he was up against in Xfinity, that's WHY I thought he was pretty darn good when I saw him hold his own against Kyle and Carl and Denny, but I also remember that a LOT of people were not real high on him. Heck, I STILL like Brad, I just think he runs his mouth a little too much at times, and I think his expectations of the situation at Hendrick was a little unrealistic.
 
I'm not deranged at all. I liked Brad, I thought almost right away after he got into Jr's cars that he could be something special, and I WANTED him to end up in the 5 car. I fully understand the level of competition he was up against in Xfinity, that's WHY I thought he was pretty darn good when I saw him hold his own against Kyle and Carl and Denny, but I also remember that a LOT of people were not real high on him. Heck, I STILL like Brad, I just think he runs his mouth a little too much at times, and I think his expectations of the situation at Hendrick was a little unrealistic.
NOBODY has first hand information of what Brad had been promised and remember Junior's car where about 4th or 5th class at the time. Like I said, Brad was the only hope for his whole family, taking the best offer he could get was not an option for him.
 
Hendrick teams welcome new Camaro, engine parts upgrade
“I can tell you this, Hendrick Motorsports is not happy with the performance we’ve had the last three years. We’ve got to do better. Last year we had a lot of expectations with the product we took to the race track and it just wasn’t there,” veteran crew chief Chad Knaus said Thursday at HMS.

On paper and what we’ve seen from the wind tunnel, it’s definitely an upgrade from what we’ve had

Cliff Daniels, Johnson's crew chief

https://www.motorsport.com/nascar-cup/news/hendrick-new-camaro-chevy-2020/4678642/
 
I think the NASCAR fandom is due for an overhaul. I am hoping for the Next Gen fan along with the Next Gen car....and that includes more manufacturer loyalty. I really believe that driver first fans should care about what their driver is driving---especially last year because if he wasn't in a Toyota, he didn't have the same chance of winning as if he was. Also, the manufacturer is the cornerstone of this sport. Take the OEM's away, and what have you got? Not much IMO from a business or marketing perspective. You race to sell cars....still IMO. Toyota has some pretty impressive data to prove it. Roughly a third of all Toyota buyers reference NASCAR involvement as a reason for considering Toyota. Not bad when you consider how many cars and trucks Toyota sells.
I have to say, next-gen fan got a hearty chuckle out of me

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Roughly a third of all Toyota buyers reference NASCAR involvement as a reason for considering Toyota. Not bad when you consider how many cars and trucks Toyota sells.

That figure is probably from a Nascar fan survey
 
Did you ever stop and consider that perhaps with the tightness of the rules, the old car just was NOT FIXABLE? Sometimes the engineers get it right, sometimes they get it wrong, and when it comes to bodies, sometimes they are at the mercy of what the design department gives them to work with. So Toyota got it right. Well congratulations to them, give them a gold star. The Chevy, for whatever reason is NOT right, and the choice was to either let them try to fix it, or just tell Chevy and their teams they have to just waste their time and money for a year. If the shoe was on the other foot, the story would be EXACTLY the same. NASCAR wants all three of the manufacturers to succeed, and they NEED them to succeed, so as much as you may want to deny it, NASCAR would make similar moves if it was Toyota in the ditch. In years past, NASCAR would have just let Chevy make some spoiler or air dam or body height changes to cure an inequality, but the only remedy they give the teams now is to submit a whole new body. I've been on every side of this argument. As a Chevy guy, I was pissed as can be back in the early 90's when NASCAR approved what became known as the Yates cylinder head so the Fords could keep up. At the time, cylinder heads had to totally mimic the production counterpart in basic design. The Yates head threw that out the window, and within a year, it was the Chevy's that couldn't keep up, which led to them having to come up with a whole new non-stock based design themselves, which was the first step in allowing engines that bear no resemblance to production engines. In the mid 90's the noncompetitive Pontiacs were given a new nose that bore no resemblance to a factory car to keep them in the game. When Ford quit producing the Thunderbird, NASCAR for the first time in their history allowed a four door model, the Taurus. When Dodge wanted to join the party, they were allowed to create an engine out of thin air, just as Toyota was allowed to several years later.

Oh we want to say Ford got the first bone? What about in 90 when Chevy brought a car that only ran a V6 and was front wheel drive in the stock Lumina when Ford was using a T-Bird that was RWD and offered a V8? That was before the Yates heads. Or the Aero Monte Carlo when they couldn’t keep up with the T-Birds on the super speedways? And I can’t find confirmation of it but when Chevy brought the Monte Carlo back and there were like 12 templates based on the body of each makes stock version, the MC didn’t fit 2 or 3 of them in the rear as the stock MC was too narrow to put a whatever by whatever spoiler on so they were allowed to widen the race version? Chevy has got some enormous bones thrown at them too.
 
Damn straight. I want to bring back the manufacturer whining. Loved that stuff. Let's play with spoilers and stuff. Sandbagging. All of it. I loved it.

I did too....even though Ford got screwed most of the time but I’m sure it was my allegiance that made it seem that way.
 
I love where this thread went. Should change the title to Manufacturers Trash Talk or start a new one since NASCAR seems to be doing the concessions deal again....we can all bitch and make accusations there!

I’m a Ford guy obviously. I started watching in 90, adopted Mark right before attending the 90 Valleydale Meats 500 in Bristol and have been a fan of his since. He was always my favorite, even when he won for HMS and tried to for MWR and in the Army 01 car. I doubt I’d follow BK like I did Mark to another Manufacturer. I’d still rather he won than many but I usually look to see where the Fords are running after I see where Brad is. I don’t get why people think having a favorite manufacturer is silly? It’s like a sports team only we just have 3.
 
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