2023 IndyCar News / Misc.

FLRacingFan

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First successful test of the 2024 2.4L TTV6 paired together with the ERS, plus the “fiddle brake”.

 

FLRacingFan

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AMSP will have the 2nd-5th place finishers from this year’s 500 in their cars for 2023.

NTT Data and Palou were supposed to be a package deal for 2023 but one part is already moving on ahead of Palou’s expected 2024 switch.

CGR should be okay, full sponsor roster for the #10 should be announced soon. I’m guessing Ridgeline Lubricants are stepping up more.

 

FLRacingFan

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Indy Lights is now “INDY NXT”. My faith in Penske Entertainment dwindles by the day.

 

Doc Austin

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IMG_20221103_0002.jpg
 

Kiante

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Sato will run an oval only program next year and some IMSA races:

Marcus Armstrong is the likely canidate to be in a full-time ride for Coyne next year.
 

FLRacingFan

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Sato will run an oval only program next year and some IMSA races:

Marcus Armstrong is the likely canidate to be in a full-time ride for Coyne next year.
Taku could still very well be a threat on the ovals in a part-time role and he’d be a welcome asset for RWR’s LMP2 or an NSX GT3 program. With Honda ties it’d be coolest to see the latter I think but either way it’s a win. Sounds like they want to keep him in the family for the long term, maybe in management or some sort of ambassador role.

Armstrong and Malukas would be a competitive and personable young duo. Still need to see Linus to a seat somewhere though.
 

FLRacingFan

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I agree. The move to downtown Detroit is silly to me too after visiting Belle Isle.
Belle Isle was a good circuit but I’ll give them a chance to wow me downtown before passing judgment, maybe it’ll draw in more fans over there.

But generally, it’s hard to see the same kind of momentum much of the rest of the motorsports industry is seeing. No new chassis anytime soon, no real schedule expansion/new venues, no third OEM, attendance is lacking at a number of tracks, ratings are still just kinda flat, Lights scholarship slashed significantly. There’s hybrid power and bigger engines coming in 2024 and I don’t have many complaints about the racing product but looking at what NASCAR, F1, IMSA, WEC, even dirt and asphalt short track racing are doing and it just feels stale or stagnant.

The Lights rebrand is goofy and just feels like they’re missing the plot when it’s a crucial time in motorsport when there are so many other things to worry about. It seems like Penske Entertainment is tightening the belts more than anything else but many other series are showing that scared money don’t make money.
 

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Belle Isle was a good circuit but I’ll give them a chance to wow me downtown before passing judgment, maybe it’ll draw in more fans over there.

But generally, it’s hard to see the same kind of momentum much of the rest of the motorsports industry is seeing. No new chassis anytime soon, no real schedule expansion/new venues, no third OEM, attendance is lacking at a number of tracks, ratings are still just kinda flat, Lights scholarship slashed significantly. There’s hybrid power and bigger engines coming in 2024 and I don’t have many complaints about the racing product but looking at what NASCAR, F1, IMSA, WEC, even dirt and asphalt short track racing are doing and it just feels stale or stagnant.

The Lights rebrand is goofy and just feels like they’re missing the plot when it’s a crucial time in motorsport when there are so many other things to worry about. It seems like Penske Entertainment is tightening the belts more than anything else but many other series are showing that scared money don’t make money.

I just have a hard time finding a new driver out of the new generation of IndyCar drivers. The schedule is stagnant agreed.

Colton Herta is OK & Scott McLaughlin is cool but other than that I have a hard time rooting for anyone other than Will Power and occasionally Graham Rahal or James Hinchcliffe, maybe if JR Hildebrand could get a few more races as well.
 

FLRacingFan

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I just have a hard time finding a new driver out of the new generation of IndyCar drivers. The schedule is stagnant agreed.

Colton Herta is OK & Scott McLaughlin is cool but other than that I have a hard time rooting for anyone other than Will Power and occasionally Graham Rahal or James Hinchcliffe, maybe if JR Hildebrand could get a few more races as well.
The teams and the drivers we have now make up for a really talented and deep field, probably as good as ever, and certainly since reunification. I think Penske’s main focus with the purchase is being a steward of the Speedway with the rest of the series still being an appendix to what goes on in May, plus other happenings at IMS. What NASCAR and F1 have been doing ain’t perfect but they’ve invested a ton in trying to evolve and progress even through COVID.
 

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The teams and the drivers we have now make up for a really talented and deep field, probably as good as ever, and certainly since reunification. I think Penske’s main focus with the purchase is being a steward of the Speedway with the rest of the series still being an appendix to what goes on in May, plus other happenings at IMS. What NASCAR and F1 have been doing ain’t perfect but they’ve invested a ton in trying to evolve and progress even through COVID.

I’m not having a problem with them trying new things & cutting costs since COVID but like you said scared money doesn’t always make money and I don’t understand why they can’t bring back the Brickyard 400 & Freedom 100 in 2024.

Indy NXT is just so bleh of a name… Indy Lights aren’t nearly as ratio’d as an Xfinity car to Cup IMO. If that makes sense haha
 

Tony_K

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I like every driver in the Indycar series. Obviously I like some more than others but usually I'm rooting for certain drivers in certain races just because I feel they deserve to win that particular race by how they are running....if that makes sense to anyone.

It's the only racing series that I don't dislike certain drivers and I enjoy the racing that much more because of it.
 

donthaveanickname

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Sato will run an oval only program next year and some IMSA races:

Marcus Armstrong is the likely canidate to be in a full-time ride for Coyne next year.
I'll miss Sato in a full-time ride. He still had Top 10 speed on road courses occasionally but his strength was clearly on the ovals last year. I understand the change given Sato's age and I think that Armstrong should be a great addition to DCR and IndyCar.
I hope Sato will still have some speed on ovals despite the reduced seat time.
 

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FLRacingFan

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DRR will field two entries at the 500, one of them will be driven by Stefan Wilson.
Looking good for 34+ cars.
I’m disappointed to see Karam not back with the team, he’s usually an interesting entry at least. Wilson and Cusick are pretty uninspiring but they have money. Unless DRR get one of the NASCAR Kyles in the second seat I’m underwhelmed by their prospects.
 

FLRacingFan

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Lundgaard may be shifted to the 45 with HyVee backing, seems as though Harvey will be under a lot of pressure to perform next season.

CGR’s 11 (old 48) may require multiple drivers to piecemeal a season together as Latifi talks have quieted down.

With so few Chevy opportunities at the 500 available Kyle Busch/Larson may be willing to hop into the second DRR seat but there are others on the list of potentials as well.

 

FLRacingFan

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So Johnson doesn’t want to try the double?
Options are definitely dwindling if he still does. And, fwiw, I do think he does, but there are other factors at play now. Having a stake in a Chevy Cup team probably makes going back to a CGR Honda more complicated than before, and Chevy engine leases are hard to come by themselves.
 

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I get this feeling that JJ's experience with Indycar
for him was fun, but not real fun. Time to move on.
Which is cool.
 

FLRacingFan

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Revised rear impact structure coming in 2023.

 

FLRacingFan

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Quite a surprise as Ganassi announce another Kiwi to the team with F2 race winner Marcus Armstrong to the 11 for the road/street races. He’d been mentioned as a candidate for Juncos and DCR but not anything this big.



Andretti also confirmed Jamie Chadwick in Indy Lights, with a nice surprise of DHL backing.

 

FLRacingFan

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IndyCar stays losing. Hard to see how this series remains economically viable for more than another decade or so.

 

FLRacingFan

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Chevy and Honda are operating at loses despite a 50/50 split of engine leases? Holy crap batman, Penske Entertainment needs to put on their big boy pants and make **** happen.
Yeah, and it would’ve skyrocketed even more if they debuted the new engines, which were budgeted to provide for 1/3 of the field each. Horrible supply chain/costs + failure to find a 3rd OEM = no bueno. There are some eye-opening quotes from HPD in here, really wonder how much longer IndyCar can be commercially viable for.

 

Doc Austin

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Chevy and Honda are operating at loses despite a 50/50 split of engine leases? Holy crap batman, Penske Entertainment needs to put on their big boy pants and make **** happen.
We're probably not going to attract any more manufacturers, so why not open it up to companies like Gibson? They are in business to make motors, and in the past (with companies like Offenhauser and Buick) that gave teams that wanted to race a place to get motors. We didn't need manufacturers when we had Offenhauser, and later Ford and then Cosworth. If one went out of business, there was always a place to get a competitive motor. Now, it's one of two companies, and if one leaves, we would have a big problem.

We all remember when Honda supplied the entire field, but now they can't cough up that 34th motor?
 

Doc Austin

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Yeah, and it would’ve skyrocketed even more if they debuted the new engines, which were budgeted to provide for 1/3 of the field each. Horrible supply chain/costs + failure to find a 3rd OEM = no bueno. There are some eye-opening quotes from HPD in here, really wonder how much longer IndyCar can be commercially viable for.


Make the car makers spend millions developing motors, and tell them "never mind?" I can't see this as a good plan.
 

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“We’re not here to make a racing series,” Salters said. “We’re here to promote through a racing series. But we’re not here to make the racing series. That’s not our job. That’s somebody else’s job. We’re here to support it, but only if it gives us something back. And we have to also show a return on investment, and that needs to be people watching.”
 

Doc Austin

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“We’re not here to make a racing series,” Salters said. “We’re here to promote through a racing series. But we’re not here to make the racing series. That’s not our job. That’s somebody else’s job. We’re here to support it, but only if it gives us something back. And we have to also show a return on investment, and that needs to be people watching.”
There you go. Manufactures looking to get whatever they can while not really caring if they leave a trail of destruction behind them. How many times do we have to see this before we understand they are in it just for themselves. You're all sportscar fans. We should be used to this.

Indycar really needs to look into letting any motor that meets the spec run. You can bet Gibson would be delighted to sell a bunch of motors because that is why they are in business. If they have to expand that's the first rule of business anyway. Expand or die.

IImor could be a player too. As many motors as Cosworth used to provide, how come they never said they could only build their share? Was there ever a shortage of Offenhausers? Ford never had trouble supplying DFV, In fact, there were stories of the blown-up ones sitting outside the garage, then disappearing overnight, and new ones stacked up in Gasoline Alley in the morning. Buick could not find enough teams to run their motor.

Right now Honda and Chevy are telling Indycar how many motors they can supply. We did not have this problem when you did not have to be an approved car maker to run Indianapolis.

Conversely, Granatelli's Turbine was mass produced. In fact, he took it right off the shelf. That motor would run 10 years before you would even have to take it out of the car. I think it was rated at 10,000 hours. We've made a lot of critical errors, but that is the one that started all these problems with engines.

Indianapolis being relevant to technology ground to a halt with Parnelli's gearbox.
 

FLRacingFan

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Make the car makers spend millions developing motors, and tell them "never mind?" I can't see this as a good plan.
The OEMs are the ones who shut it down, despite the sunk costs. They were expecting a 3rd OEM to join and support a portion of the field, when it was clear IndyCar wasn’t signing one it was apparent that the field would shrink since GM and HPD had budgeted for fewer cars (more expensive per-engine leases). So it was dump the hybrid or dump the bigger engine. The biggest failing is the series’ inability to find a new OEM. They came close with Lambo, Porsche, Toyota and could never seal the deal.

There’s nothing stopping a Gibson or Cosworth type from partnering with an OEM to build a new engine and join the series. Hell, Chevy already works with Ilmor as the engine builder for the IndyCar engines. Cosworth have long said they’d build an IndyCar engine again if a manufacturer came to them with a check. Imo, if it’s the activation and promotion spend that’s turning off OEMs then the series should drop the requirement. If someone just wants to spend to build an engine without all the marketing fluff then so be it at this point.
 

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I agree, IndyCar is not a tech proving ground for manufacturers like F1. Open it up to anyone that wants to play.
 

Doc Austin

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The OEMs are the ones who shut it down, despite the sunk costs.
The engine manufacturers are calling the shots. I don't see that as a good ting either.

So it was dump the hybrid or dump the bigger engine.
Or keep what we have since development costs would be far less than something new. Engines are already in circulation. They would just have to build more. I can't believe GM and Honda doesn't have the capacity to build enough motors. After all, Honda supplied everyone for a few years. The car companies can do it. They just don't want to.

We're also going 230mph, so why do we need to throw away what we have just to go faster and punch bigger holes in the fence?
The biggest failing is the series’ inability to find a new OEM. They came close with Lambo, Porsche, Toyota and could never seal the deal.
Indycar is not road relevant and does not have the base that F1 does. I'm not going to run out and buy a Chevy or Honda because they won Indy and I don't think anyone else does either.
There’s nothing stopping a Gibson or Cosworth type from partnering with an OEM to build a new engine and join the series.

Except no manufacturer wants in. We could be facing the real danger those two eventually move on, and then what do we do?

Hell, Chevy already works with Ilmor as the engine builder for the IndyCar engines. Cosworth have long said they’d build an IndyCar engine again if a manufacturer came to them with a check. Imo, if it’s the activation and promotion spend that’s turning off OEMs then the series should drop the requirement. If someone just wants to spend to build an engine without all the marketing fluff then so be it at this point.
At what point do we take control of our own destiny and assure a motor supply for the next 20 years? I'de say drop the OEM requirement and let other companies in. It would cheeze off the car companies to get beat by a lowly specialty company, but if we get enough Gibsons and Cosworths who cares? You can bet either one would bail tomorrow if they were not winning, but specialty companies will stay as long as they are selling motors and making jack.

I don't have the answer, but having OEMs call the shots isn't working.
 
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