'21 Generation 7 Car news

One of the things I find curious is that in the current car video, even at this low speed there seems to be a significant alteration of the rear suspension geometry, an actual wreck like Bowman's there didn't seem to be any serious suspension damage at all. Someone who has had some involvement in this whole situation (don't remember who) stated that while NASCAR can certainly improve the car, as long as it has this type of design it will never attain numbers even as good as the old car.
 
Formerjackman said:
One of the things I find curious is that in the current car video, even at this low speed there seems to be a significant alteration of the rear suspension geometry, an actual wreck like Bowman's there didn't seem to be any serious suspension damage at all. Someone who has had some involvement in this whole situation (don't remember who) stated that while NASCAR can certainly improve the car, as long as it has this type of design it will never attain numbers even as good as the old car.
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Heard that from a friend of a friend did ya?
 
StandOnIt said:
Heard that from a friend of a friend did ya?
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No, I heard it discussed on one of the podcasts, can't remember which one, but it was from either a driver or a crew chief who had seen the testing data. It MAY just be an opinion, but I can certainly see the point. I don't see ANY WAY the back of the new car ever has the level of crushability the old car had, and I haven't seen NASCAR put out any data from the old car, which tells me they would rather not talk about it. If they had ANYTHING that demonstrated that the new car version 1.0 or 2.0 was anywhere close to the old car, they would be shouting it from the rooftops.
 
Formerjackman said:
No, I heard it discussed on one of the podcasts, can't remember which one, but it was from either a driver or a crew chief who had seen the testing data. It MAY just be an opinion, but I can certainly see the point. I don't see ANY WAY the back of the new car ever has the level of crushability the old car had, and I haven't seen NASCAR put out any data from the old car, which tells me they would rather not talk about it. If they had ANYTHING that demonstrated that the new car version 1.0 or 2.0 was anywhere close to the old car, they would be shouting it from the rooftops.
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Have to move fuel cell inside the car like the Strailians have done.
 
Formerjackman said:
No, I heard it discussed on one of the podcasts, can't remember which one, but it was from either a driver or a crew chief who had seen the testing data. It MAY just be an opinion, but I can certainly see the point. I don't see ANY WAY the back of the new car ever has the level of crushability the old car had, and I haven't seen NASCAR put out any data from the old car, which tells me they would rather not talk about it. If they had ANYTHING that demonstrated that the new car version 1.0 or 2.0 was anywhere close to the old car, they would be shouting it from the rooftops.
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Oh I see, conspiracy theory, Can't remember where it was heard or who said it.
 
KTMLew01 said:
Have to move fuel cell inside the car like the Strailians have done.
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Isn't the issue is they need the rear stiff enough to keep the transaxle from puncturing the fuel cell? I don't know crap about transaxles, but I thought this was discussed earlier?

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StandOnIt said:
Oh I see, conspiracy theory, Can't remember where it was heard or who said it.
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I listen to about 10 different podcasts a week, many of them with people coming in and out of my office, and sometimes with a land line phone in one ear and a cell phone in the other. Pardon me if I can't cite chapter and verse for every single statement or opinion I hear over the course of a week.
 
wi_racefan said:
Isn't the issue is they need the rear stiff enough to keep the transaxle from puncturing the fuel cell? I don't know crap about transaxles, but I thought this was discussed earlier?

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The Australian Supercars use similar transaxle setup. They found the need to move the fuel cell INSIDE the car. Seems the safest place for it? Just like every modern car on the highway now has it under the back seat instead of in or just forward of the trunk Allows vehicle to crush all the way to back window. The old cars had chassis frame & bracing angles that allowed the rear clip to deflect down and not so much forward. Seems to have worked most of the time.
 
KTMLew01 said:
The Australian Supercars use similar transaxle setup. They found the need to move the fuel cell INSIDE the car. Seems the safest place for it? Just like every modern car on the highway now has it under the back seat instead of in or just forward of the trunk Allows vehicle to crush all the way to back window. The old cars had chassis frame & bracing angles that allowed the rear clip to deflect down and not so much forward. Seems to have worked most of the time.
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Changes have already been determined and will be done following the last race. We havent had one issue of fire due to fuel cell eruption all year.
 
KTMLew01 said:
The Australian Supercars use similar transaxle setup. They found the need to move the fuel cell INSIDE the car. Seems the safest place for it? Just like every modern car on the highway now has it under the back seat instead of in or just forward of the trunk Allows vehicle to crush all the way to back window. The old cars had chassis frame & bracing angles that allowed the rear clip to deflect down and not so much forward. Seems to have worked most of the time.
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That 'ol 60s Chevy truck I had made me nervous. Fuel tank right behind my back, always smoked cigarettes outside the cab...
 
Magicmiler said:
That 'ol 60s Chevy truck I had made me nervous. Fuel tank right behind my back, always smoked cigarettes outside the cab...
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I drove those trucks for years, had a 69 and a 71. The 71 got so rusty the cab mounts rotted until the fuel tank was sitting on the pointed left rear cab mount bolt, which proceeded to slowly drill a hole in the tank. Had to have it soldered shut, then trim the bolt head and put a pieces of mudflap between the cab floor and the tank.
 
aunty dive said:
Construction of replacement rear clips is underway at the supplier’s facility. Some have already been shipped.
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Seems like fairly minor changes to me. Makes you wonder why this didn't get started sooner. Or maybe it took 4-5-6 months to get the jigs built? (I'd certainly hope not/Infinity teams could "update" one of these inside a week for first one & then have the jig ready to modify half-dozen week after)
 
They started after the most recent (last month) crash test/ analysis.

Most of it is tubing removal with some small changes/additions. I will guess that the jigs they already have are being used with minor changes.
 
Well and fine, but more effort two years ago would have resulted in less to do now. Nothing they are trying to fix now is some mystery of the universe.
 
Formerjackman said:
Well and fine, but more effort two years ago would have resulted in less to do now. Nothing they are trying to fix now is some mystery of the universe.
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They are going to be continually revising the car until they go to another generation of the car. Surely you should know that instead of these weak should a could a 20 20 hindsight simpleton whines
 
There won’t be as much dirty air at Marstinville.

So that’s a relief. Hurry up, Elon.
 
Formerjackman said:
Well and fine, but more effort two years ago would have resulted in less to do now. Nothing they are trying to fix now is some mystery of the universe.
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That's a really cheap shot right there, considering the COVID disruptions that affected the development cycle on the Next Gen car. The introduction was delayed just one year, but the development cycle was set back by a lot more than 12 months. Nobody wanted to delay the car a second year, for many compelling reasons.

Even without COVID, I don't think anyone *except you* expected the new car to roll out and not get any revisions for multiple years because it's friggin' perfect on day one. Just in the last several days, you've whined about (a) cost of changes to the rear crush zones, (b) changes to the nose piece and hood, and now (c) considering aero mods for short tracks. What's next to complain about?
 
hope they let someone that knows about racecars design and build it,not clowns and the lowest bidder.:owquitit:
 
I think the world of Mark Martin, and his opinion MATTERS to me, but if he thinks the new car has been the best racing ever, then I have to question whether he has hit his head too many times, and we'll just have to agree to disagree. Of the roughly 45 or so races in the new car, I'd say MAYBE ten (including yesterday) were quite good. The rest have ranged from mediocre at best to putrid garbage.
 
aunty dive said:
Races pretty good on the Kansas mile and a half … for a Sports Car. 😎

Mark Martin for President 2024.
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Well, like I said a few weeks ago, the law of averages would be that the car is good SOMEWHERE. It's all the places that it is terrible that concern me, especially since those seem to be all my favorite tracks.
 
I'm by no means a mechanical engineer nor do I fully understand the aerodynamics involved in stock car racing. With that being said, I've been thinking about the issue the NextGen cars been having with short tracks.

Obviously cutting the spoiler down to a splinter and removing some of the rear diffuser was a good start.

However I don't think it's enough. If I was NASCAR, I would remove the entire rear diffuser and reduce the splitter to a quarter inch overhang like in 2020.

These, IMHO, are the easiest things to fix. The next idea may be a little bit harder and that is changing the tires. Back when NASCAR ran 15" high profile tires that were 9.5" to 10" wide.

Now these old tires ran hot when running under green flag conditions and they had a lot of rubber. However they had a small contact patch between the tires and the racing surface. Depending on what compound Goodyear brings to the track, these tires could be soft, which provides a lot of grip but a shorter life cycle. Or they could be hard, less grip but they last longer.

Now NASCAR is running 18" low profile tires that's 14.3" wide. These tires don't run as hot, have less rubber & more mechanical grip.

Now I will say that these tires are good for intermediates & road courses & that's where the NextGen cars shine. The 2023 Coca Cola 600 was a very exciting race.

However, these tires suck out loud on short tracks. The cooler running temperature and wider contact patch leads to less fall-offs of the rubber and it removes tire management from the equation.

Honestly, I'm not sure what the answer is that would satisfy the fans, NASCAR and Goodyear because Goodyear and the auto manufacturers wanted this new tire so that the cup cars could closer resemble the street counterparts.

The 18" tires aren't going away & you can't make them too heavy for the over the wall crew. You  could soften the compound, but with less rubber, that may make the tires unsafe with the increased possibility of blowouts. They could mandate the use of rain tires for short tracks, they have a better fall off than the slicks, but I don't know if that's a viable long term solution.

Now I'll address what seems to be everyone's favorite solution when it comes to the short track problem of the NextGen cars, more horsepower. The current engines of the NextGen cars is 650hp. It's a far cry from the 900hp+ of the Gen4 cars, but it's still better than the 550hp engine we had in the High Downforce/Low HP era.

I don't see this as a solution because at North Wilkesboro, drivers were already  not going full throttle down the straights. I think they were running around 80% throttle on the straights? The point is, drivers are already having to manage their throttle input and have some serious off throttle and braking times. Honestly I think 650hp is the sweet spot for a racing series that goes to short track, intermediates, road courses, superspeedways and pseudo-superspeedways (glares at Atlanta.)

So yea, there's my thoughts on how to address and fix the short track problem with the NextGen cars. Less aero & somehow less mechanical grip and bring back tire management.
 
iam sticking with, if you make all of the cars the same and all the team get to see all of your data.the cars are going to go the same speed,so no passing, my changes are,DO NOT let the teams see other teams data. 2 different tire compounds, open up front and rear spoiler to a little changes. you just have to made the cars a little different. or its just a pony ride.
 
acmerocket said:
iam sticking with, if you make all of the cars the same and all the team get to see all of your data.the cars are going to go the same speed,so no passing, my changes are,DO NOT let the teams see other teams data. 2 different tire compounds, open up front and rear spoiler to a little changes. you just have to made the cars a little different. or its just a pony ride.
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Not really. There are different setups, pit strategy, adjustable downforce according to ride height, adjustable shocks, camber, wedge. 10 different winners so far. Who else has this close racing with 10 different winners in 15 races?
 
StandOnIt said:
Not really. There are different setups, pit strategy, adjustable downforce according to ride height, adjustable shocks, camber, wedge. 10 different winners so far. Who else has this close racing with 10 different winners in 15 races?
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good points
 
acmerocket said:
good points
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Eh, you look at IMSA, they work their tails off trying to equal the performance of the various cars. The teams try all kinds of tricks to get an advantage over the others and other teams squabble about the other. It works but what a pain on everybody. It isn't perfect but neither is Nascar's system. I think nascars has to be better, they are full of world class cheats.
 
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