'21 Generation 7 Car news

wi_racefan said:
Because it becomes a safety issue and teams will use it to gain an advantage over other on pit road. "Sorry that our tire rolled into your box and slowed your stop"

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Then, penalize it when it becomes a safety issue....
 
Charlie Spencer said:
And even if you allow the tire to roam freely in the team's own box, there's the possibility of it being sent flying by the exiting car.
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I think we have seen cases where this happened, and there was no penalty. It is a stupid rule. I mean if we are talking safety, how about we get rid of the gas can? Probably time for that anyway.....or automatic jacks to reduce the number of people on pit lane? ....or pit lane rev limiters?
 
Does anyone know how the motor mounts work on these? I can't imagine all 3 of the manufactures have the exact same mounting systems. Are team allowed to install/modify front clips as needed to accept their engines or when you order one are you ordering a Chevy front clip to install and run a Chevy motor?
 
Revman said:
Let's get rid of that stupid rule. If the tire rolls into pit lane, then fine, assess a penalty but the stupid uncontrolled tire concept is idiocy. Who the hell cares if it is under control as long as it doesn't become a safety issue...
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The family of the person that got hit in the head and killed by a tire hit by a car on pit road might care.
 
wi_racefan said:
Does anyone know how the motor mounts work on these? I can't imagine all 3 of the manufactures have the exact same mounting systems. Are team allowed to install/modify front clips as needed to accept their engines or when you order one are you ordering a Chevy front clip to install and run a Chevy motor?
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Great question. The Chevy uses a front block plate. Probably uses same at bellhousing since no transmission now.
 

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RYR rear engine mounts. 3 bolt hole attach it to engine, Slotted would attach to frame. Other holes are just to lighten it. Not sure if they bolt directly to block or on bellhousing bolts?
 

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Found the Ford. They are all basically the same. Plate across front behind waterpump, tabs at rear sides of block. You can see the rear mount if you look closely where the braided lines run past where the bellhousing would mount. Have to zoom in on engine.
 

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Maybe a team if they crash all their spares could run a Ford engine, Toyota front clip, Chevy rear clip. Call it a Tordy.

:XXROFL: :XXROFL: :sarcasm:
 
KTMLew01 said:
There is NO chance I'll come back early next season and say...
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Anything is possible. Some of the smaller teams might try it that can't afford two race ready cars. I don't think the bigger teams would mess with all that, no way they could get the car as good as it was coming out of the shop if there was any serious damage. The big teams won't take that chance
 
StandOnIt said:
Anything is possible. Some of the smaller teams might try it that can't afford two race ready cars. I don't think the bigger teams would mess with all that, no way they could get the car as good as it was coming out of the shop if there was any serious damage. The big teams won't take that chance
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The clips are dowel pinned for alignment. I really don't understand the resistance to repairing cars at the track like they did FOR YEARS. The use of back-up ramping up was due to aero NOT mechanical repair. I'm NOT saying a car damaged like the RCR car was will routinely get fixed. Just saying I expect a large % of getting loose and screwing up the RR corner will get fixed to maintain starting positions. It had gotten to the point they just didn't even consider repairing anything. Maybe somewhat related to limited crew but more likely due to aero. Just can't duplicate shop environment when building your own body. That's been removed form the equation. These cars will be mostly plug & play.
 
StandOnIt said:
Anything is possible. Some of the smaller teams might try it that can't afford two race ready cars. I don't think the bigger teams would mess with all that, no way they could get the car as good as it was coming out of the shop if there was any serious damage. The big teams won't take that chance
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I wonder how good that bondo stuff will "fix" the new cars though. 😜😜;):wink:
 
KTMLew01 said:
Who said anything about bondo? I'm talking about bolting stuff together. The body is X. No bondo allowed.
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Nobody, and sorry.

Just saying with the whole history of "innovation" and "grey areas" in the sport etc,, and to the point someone made that they would never be able to repair them as good as at the shop, I'm sure at least someone, sometime, will try to find a way to make it "better". Not saying it will work and not disputing your point. But I'm sure someone will try eventually, whether using bondo or some other means.
 
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hmmm298 said:
Nobody, and sorry.

Just saying with the whole history of "innovation" and "grey areas" in the sport etc,, and to the point someone made that they would never be able to repair them as good as at the shop, I'm sure at least someone, sometime, will try to find a way to make it "better". Not saying it will work and not disputing your point. But I'm sure someone will try eventually, whether using bondo or some other means.
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I am truly puzzled by all the people saying NO REPAIRS WILL EVER BE DONE! Like Oprah said it's BACK-UPS FOR EVERYONE!
 
KTMLew01 said:
I am truly puzzled by all the people saying NO REPAIRS WILL EVER BE DONE! Like Oprah said it's BACK-UPS FOR EVERYONE!
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I know what you mean. My point is more agreeing that some of the big teams may actually try to do more repairs just seeing if they can "improve" the car by trying to bend the rules with the excuse of "repairs" etc.
 
KTMLew01 said:
The clips are dowel pinned for alignment. I really don't understand the resistance to repairing cars at the track like they did FOR YEARS. The use of back-up ramping up was due to aero NOT mechanical repair. I'm NOT saying a car damaged like the RCR car was will routinely get fixed. Just saying I expect a large % of getting loose and screwing up the RR corner will get fixed to maintain starting positions. It had gotten to the point they just didn't even consider repairing anything. Maybe somewhat related to limited crew but more likely due to aero. Just can't duplicate shop environment when building your own body. That's been removed form the equation. These cars will be mostly plug & play.
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Sure sounded like it. I don't remember seeing "minor damage" in any of your posts. Dillion's crash wasn't minor damage, and if they had had a spare car ready to go all wired up with the needed sensors, I believe they wouldn't have gone thru the trouble.
 
StandOnIt said:
Sure sounded like it. I don't remember seeing "minor damage" in any of your posts. Dillion's crash wasn't minor damage, and if they had had a spare car ready to go all wired up with the needed sensors, I believe they wouldn't have gone thru the trouble.
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Agree, But that's only based on what they know right now. By mid-season 2022 cars WILL get fixed at the track. I'd guess most of the time a front end crash requires a motor swap. I still believe installing a "complete" front clip with engine/rad/headers/etc will be faster than the old way. The teams are really smart. They will figure out a way to do it F a s t. Just like OEM's put engine/trans/susp/radiator in all at same time.
 
I guess we'll see how this plays out as far as repairs. To me any body damage I think teams will fix at the track. But the bigger teams I think will still want to go to a backup if they have to change clips. I mean why not? If it's that much easier to assemble why not let the guys in the shop spend the time putting this thing together under good working conditions?

The other thing that needs to be considered is what if there's damage to the center section? Now the repair time has gone up a lot more than just installing new clips, so do you want to bring literally all the pieces to build a new car or a fully assembled car? To me fire is the one you need to worry about most in that center section. You burn up the wiring and subject that to heat, you're not fixing that at the track.

Now I could see someone like a HMS bringing 2 fully assembled backups and a bunch of spare parts for their 4 car team.

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KTMLew01 said:
I really don't understand the resistance to repairing cars at the track like they did FOR YEARS. ... I'm NOT saying a car damaged like the RCR car was will routinely get fixed.
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Well, since that's the example that started the discussion, that's exactly what it sounds like you've been saying, and a trackside repair of that magnitude is what most of your opposition is saying won't happen. If a 6-hour, in-shop repair job like the #3 is NOT what your saying will occur at the track, then we're on the same page.
 
KTMLew01 said:
I'd guess most of the time a front end crash requires a motor swap. I still believe installing a "complete" front clip with engine/rad/headers/etc will be faster than the old way.
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It may be faster than the old way of repairs, but it will never be faster than pulling out a back-up car.
 
Was listening to the radio and someone brought up a good point. Now with the duct in the windshield and the slits in the rear window how is this thing going to be in the rain? The windshield I think would be the biggest issue, I could just see water running in that thing
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Well, since that's the example that started the discussion, that's exactly what it sounds like you've been saying, and a trackside repair of that magnitude is what most of your opposition is saying won't happen. If a 6-hour, in-shop repair job like the #3 is NOT what your saying will occur at the track, then we're on the same page.
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That car was the first heavily crashed car that was repaired. If you read all the interviews they mention there were extra parts/wiring to deal with that won't be present during a race weekend. I'd bet they could do same repair today w/o the extra stuff in 3 ish hours. How long does it take to swap an engine into a back-up with this car? If wreck is after qualifying, how valuable is a top 5 starting spot with this car?

I expect the first half of season to see a TON of comers & goers due to handling issues. That creates lots of opportunities for wrecks. Easy for someone coming from the back to get involved in someone else wreck.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
It may be faster than the old way of repairs, but it will never be faster than pulling out a back-up car.
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We don't know that. Again, how long does it take to swap the engine in these cars? With this car front nose/bumper assembly can be removed. The other cars it was all welded together. Now you'll have a straight shot in from the front.
 
Similar to this. Was a Ford which I can not for the life of me remember the name. Was an EV. The orange wiring is the kill you stuff. Was replacing transmission but since first one just removed everything. I'll remember the name 10 minutes after I post.

And for those saying "they don't have lifts at the track"...they make portable lifts.
 

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Think this was an Audi. Less than an hour to get to this point. Racecars have NO wiring running to the nose assembly. Makes it even faster.
 

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KTMLew01 said:
Similar to this. Was a Ford which I can not for the life of me remember the name. Was an EV. The orange wiring is the kill you stuff. Was replacing transmission but since first one just removed everything. I'll remember the name 10 minutes after I post.

And for those saying "they don't have lifts at the track"...they make portable lifts.
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What? So teams will now have to travel will all the parts to rebuild a car plus a portable lift?
 
wi_racefan said:
What? So teams will now have to travel will all the parts to rebuild a car plus a portable lift?
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You don't believe they have been traveling with all the parts? No spare engines/trans/rearends/brakes/steering/radiators/etc? So any failure is answered with BACK-UP! How about they use the back-up as a rolling "parts bin"? Again...we back to qualifying. Does starting up front matter? If it doesn't why waste the track time & risk. Just tag the tail.
 
How about NASCAR institutes a repair policy. Your car goes in one of these 4 stalls. Has lifts and overhead engine trolley. Have you ever watched any Indycar racing? They fix the wrecked cars AT THE TRACK all the time. If tub ain't broke, fix it. If Next Gen center section ain't bent, fix it.

The plate tracks of course would be the outlier. Cars are destroyed in most crashes. Back-ups for everyone.
 
KTMLew01 said:
How about NASCAR institutes a repair policy. Your car goes in one of these 4 stalls. Has lifts and overhead engine trolley. Have you ever watched any Indycar racing? They fix the wrecked cars AT THE TRACK all the time. If tub ain't broke, fix it. If Next Gen center section ain't bent, fix it.

The plate tracks of course would be the outlier. Cars are destroyed in most crashes. Back-ups for everyone.
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They already HAVE a repair policy, reduced from the days of specialized teams and crash carts and it saves thousands. And you are thinking it is going back to that? Nobody is going to take an hour to repair a car in a race in Nascar there are rules that prohibit that. As for for the 20 minutes of practice, they will spend that time trying to get a lap or two to setup the backup car. You are all over the place Bud. Very little if any of your ideas are practical. Rules would have to be changed and that is highly doubtful. Not a peep about any changes for next year.
 
KTMLew01 said:
Inform me but first define nose. I'm talking about the area from radiator forward. From #3912 the "nose" is under back of car.
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Oh. I assumed firewall forward ... the chunk you’re preparing to wheel out of the transporter in one piece.

Starter. Alternator. Electronic fuel injection. Electric cooling fan(s). Electronic engine management system / data acquisition. All hard-wired.
 
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