23XI statement on not signing Charter agreement

StandOnIt said:
Like good little indentured servants.
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Why would they take a private jet when there's a team plane that exists for the purpose of taking them and the entire support staff from place to place? It isn't their fault that Richard Childress doesn't spend money like that on his folks. You gonna tell me that it's "indentured servitude" to use a work truck provided to you at no cost to you instead of your own?
 
virtualbalboa said:
Why would they take a private jet when there's a team plane that exists for the purpose of taking them and the entire support staff from place to place? It isn't their fault that Richard Childress doesn't spend money like that on his folks. You gonna tell me that it's "indentured servitude" to use a work truck provided to you at no cost to you instead of your own?
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You trying to say RCR doesn't have a plane lol.
 
StandOnIt said:
You trying to say RCR doesn't have a plane lol.
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RCR might have a plane but I dunno who gets to ride on it. It's just a big categorical difference between how a multibillion dollar sports franchise goes about doing things and how a NASCAR team does. We're comparing unionized athletes where a single individual might make more than the entire NASCAR field does in 2024 to, well, NASCAR in 2024. You're not gonna find the majority of the Knicks living on large Long Island/upstate NY estates and needing to helicopter into MSG.
 
virtualbalboa said:
RCR might have a plane but I dunno who gets to ride on it. It's just a big categorical difference between how a multibillion dollar sports franchise goes about doing things and how a NASCAR team does. We're comparing unionized athletes where a single individual might make more than the entire NASCAR field does in 2024 to, well, NASCAR in 2024. You're not gonna find the majority of the Knicks living on large Long Island/upstate NY estates and needing to helicopter into MSG.
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Might have a plane lol.
1727883068814.jpeg
 
virtualbalboa said:
RCR might have a plane but I dunno who gets to ride on it. It's just a big categorical difference between how a multibillion dollar sports franchise goes about doing things and how a NASCAR team does. We're comparing unionized athletes where a single individual might make more than the entire NASCAR field does in 2024 to, well, NASCAR in 2024. You're not gonna find the majority of the Knicks living on large Long Island/upstate NY estates and needing to helicopter into MSG.
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Sure Bud, they are living large. Keep drinking the cool aid.
www.forbes.com

5 Reasons Why 80% Of Retired NFL Players Go Broke

Sports Illustrated recently estimated that 80% of retired NFL players go broke in their first three years out of the League. How is this possible in a sport rolling in revenue with an average salary of almost $2 million a year? With few exceptions, the star players I have represented [...]
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
 
StandOnIt said:
Sure Bud, they are living large. Keep drinking the cool aid.
www.forbes.com

5 Reasons Why 80% Of Retired NFL Players Go Broke

Sports Illustrated recently estimated that 80% of retired NFL players go broke in their first three years out of the League. How is this possible in a sport rolling in revenue with an average salary of almost $2 million a year? With few exceptions, the star players I have represented [...]
www.forbes.com www.forbes.com
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There are hundreds more pro athletes than there are fully professional NASCAR race car drivers. And again, they are unionized and have contracted to receive perks as part of their deal with the respective leagues because their contracts are inherently investments in them my their team. Meanwhile in NASCAR, half or more of the Cup series needs to bring funding to play in the sandbox. Trying to virtue signal about NASCAR here because a bunch of retired drivers (the ones who made real money 20 years ago!) bought helicopters to get between their house in Mooresville and their infeld RV is legit funny to me.
 
virtualbalboa said:
There are hundreds more pro athletes than there are fully professional NASCAR race car drivers. And again, they are unionized and have contracted to receive perks as part of their deal with the respective leagues because their contracts are inherently investments in them my their team. Meanwhile in NASCAR, half or more of the Cup series needs to bring funding to play in the sandbox. Trying to virtue signal about NASCAR here because a bunch of retired drivers (the ones who made real money 20 years ago!) bought helicopters to get between their house in Mooresville and their infeld RV is legit funny to me.
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Livin large.
 
StandOnIt said:
Some of us have considered the whole stick and ball thing exploitation for years. Most pro ballers are broke within 5 years of retirement. Many crippled for life. Judging by how many Nascar types continue to be successful after they hang up the helmets is another reason to once again state stick and ball and racing are two different things. Most comparisons are useless.
Right now Biffle, Carl Edwards, JGR, Hendrick are flying their helicopters to help flood victims in need. Any stick and ballers doing the same?
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Most athletes that end up broke because of their own poor choices, not because of a lack of compensation.

Also
https://kdhnews.com/sports/nhl/ligh...cle_066ce8b1-0d6b-5d1f-9356-22e525a87f22.html
https://thespun.com/nba/michael-jordan-announces-massive-donation-following-hurricane-helene
https://www.nba.com/hornets/hurricanehelenerelief
https://www.profootballhof.com/news...lief-efforts;-provides-public-ways-to-donate/
https://www.katc.com/us-news/nfl-ow...clean-up-cities-after-devastation-from-helene
https://www.mlb.com/news/yankees-ma... the New York Yankees,in the state of Florida.

I could keep going as well.
 
antman12 said:
Most athletes that end up broke because of their own poor choices, not because of a lack of compensation.
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Many, if not the vast majority, of stick and ball athletes in the big 4 sports grew up poor or lower middle class with sports being targeted as a method of escape from poverty. Compare that to racing: Brendan Gaughan or William Byron won't go broke unless the nation collapses.
 
One of the dreaded and evil “stick and ballers” own a friggin team in Cup, one that is on this very lawsuit, seems that little detail was forgotten.
 
antman12 said:
Most athletes that end up broke because of their own poor choices, not because of a lack of compensation.

Also
https://kdhnews.com/sports/nhl/ligh...cle_066ce8b1-0d6b-5d1f-9356-22e525a87f22.html
https://thespun.com/nba/michael-jordan-announces-massive-donation-following-hurricane-helene
https://www.nba.com/hornets/hurricanehelenerelief
https://www.profootballhof.com/news...lief-efforts;-provides-public-ways-to-donate/
https://www.katc.com/us-news/nfl-ow...clean-up-cities-after-devastation-from-helene
https://www.mlb.com/news/yankees-make-donation-to-hurricane-helene-relief-efforts#:~:text=Yankees Foundation donates $1M to Helene relief efforts,-October 1st, 2024&text=Additionally, the New York Yankees,in the state of Florida.

I could keep going as well.
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Yeah, it was a poor career path to start with. ;)
 
virtualbalboa said:
Many, if not the vast majority, of stick and ball athletes in the big 4 sports grew up poor or lower middle class with sports being targeted as a method of escape from poverty. Compare that to racing: Brendan Gaughan or William Byron won't go broke unless the nation collapses.
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Thank you for once again proving that stick and ball comparisons to racing are worthless.
 
virtualbalboa said:
Well, if giving the athletes what they're owed makes college sports fall apart, what does that say about college sports in the first place? Sure suggests to me that it shouldn't have existed in the first place because it could only exist in an environment where the athletes had no rights and were dependent on under the table payoffs to get by. Lots of things came and went because it turned out they actually were exploitation.
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Well, frankly. it really DOESN"T matter to me, because I I only spend about 1/2 of one percent of my leisure time paying attention to college sports, but it sure might wreck a LOT of other people. In my mind, getting a free education, getting a chance to showcase your talent for pro teams and gaining access to a good ole boy network of college alumni and boosters that can help set you up for life if you play your cards right isn't exactly being exploited in my opinion. Also keep in mind that only two, and in some cases three college sports every bring a dime back to the university. The rest are just a net drain on the balance sheet being propped up by the profitable sports.
 
Formerjackman said:
Well, frankly. it really DOESN"T matter to me, because I I only spend about 1/2 of one percent of my leisure time paying attention to college sports, but it sure might wreck a LOT of other people. In my mind, getting a free education, getting a chance to showcase your talent for pro teams and gaining access to a good ole boy network of college alumni and boosters that can help set you up for life if you play your cards right isn't exactly being exploited in my opinion. Also keep in mind that only two, and in some cases three college sports every bring a dime back to the university. The rest are just a net drain on the balance sheet being propped up by the profitable sports.
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I work at a (public) university, and I understand very well how a D1 program at an R1 institution works. Sports aren't actually net drains and never have been because their effects show up elsewhere on the balance sheets. Revenue from merch sales doesn't go to athletics, it goes to the intellectual property arm and then gets redistributed as general funds. Advancement/Development/Donor Relations is intimately tied into athletics for good reason. Most of the big wig offices and meeting spaces here are all at the football stadium and it isn't a mistake. Schools have no issue trying to show that athletics are a loss leader because if they computed the big value of sports, they'd get state legislatures slashing their general funds even more and telling them to make it up with semi-pro baseball.

Yeah, there's some alumni groups who now have to report payment to athletes in a taxable/honest format. What a tragedy.
 
StandOnIt said:
Thank you for once again proving that stick and ball comparisons to racing are worthless.
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There was a time when working class people could make it in racing. The disappearance of this should not be celebrated.

The same is starting to happen in other sports sadly. Top tier equipment and training costs a lot of money.
 
Conover said:
I believe this lawsuit was the objective of Jordan, Hambone and some others all along. They wanted all the teams to refuse to sign and join the suit. When they and Jenkins were left standing alone, they had to make a decision. Obviously they won’t be signing the agreement.

This is a huge challenge to NASCAR and the equilibrium we’ve had for quite a while. Antitrust litigation takes a LONG time to adjudicate. Key could be which judge gets assigned to the case. A very BIG early test will be related to the injunction request, seeking to allow both teams to race next season until the case is settled. NASCAR contracts require teams to not place lawsuits against the organization. Violations can include exclusion from participation in racing activities. I would expect that injunction to be granted, BUT if the judge finds that the contract is valid, both teams could be locked out of next season until the decision or settlement is completed.
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Wonder if it’s settled mid season and Reddick wins would they try to get a waiver if they are locked out until then.
 
The Nature Boy said:
There was a time when working class people could make it in racing. The disappearance of this should not be celebrated.

The same is starting to happen in other sports sadly. Top tier equipment and training costs a lot of money.
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Baseball for sure; hockey to a lesser extent. Basketball seems like it should be but the shoe money flowing through it keeps the whole development stream functioning. Football QBs are expected to be in QB camp in middle school it seems like, but other positions are different.
 
virtualbalboa said:
Well, if giving the athletes what they're owed makes college sports fall apart, what does that say about college sports in the first place? Sure suggests to me that it shouldn't have existed in the first place because it could only exist in an environment where the athletes had no rights and were dependent on under the table payoffs to get by.
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I could be way off base here, but it seems to me college sports first existed as a way to supplement the students higher learning experience. With NIL, I seriously doubt the majority of payment recipients give a rat’s a— about their education. I am not arguing that the college athletes are not deserving of compensation but the environment has significantly changed college athletics and in my opinion not for the better with more tumultuous times to follow.
Because I enjoy NASCAR my feeling is anything that is detrimental to my enjoyment is not good.
 
DIDIT said:
I could be way off base here, but it seems to me college sports first existed as a way to supplement the students higher learning experience. With NIL, I seriously doubt the majority of payment recipients give a rat’s a— about their education. I am not arguing that the college athletes are not deserving of compensation but the environment has significantly changed college athletics and in my opinion not for the better with more tumultuous times to follow.
Because I enjoy NASCAR my feeling is anything that is detrimental to my enjoyment is not good.
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College football - not the NFL, the college game - was the second biggest sport by attendance and public interest for the first half of the 20th century. It was only after the 1955 NFL championship game that anyone seriously considered them peers, and obviously in the post-1970s era the NFL is now tops. But in terms of "what did athletes expect in college sports?" I mean, that's a complex thing to answer. SMU got the "death sentence" (program shut down briefly by NCAA) in the 1980s for having a literal payroll for players like future HOFer Eric Dickerson. Some athletes are there for an education. Many are there because college is the only place to ply their craft (e.g. wrestling or swimming) and still others are in college because Adidas signed them as a 12 year old and told them they were going to an Adidas school to play basketball for at least 1 season.
 
StandOnIt said:
Hamlin..victim. "I didn't realize"

Hamlin has been a Cup Series driver for Joe Gibbs Racing since 2005. Alongside friend and NBA great Michael Jordan, he founded 23XI Racing in 2021.

“I didn’t realize until re-investing the money that I’ve made as a driver back into the sport to put on a show for Jim France and NASCAR, how unfair this whole system is,” Hamlin said. “I didn’t realize they would exercise the power that they did in an unfair manner, in my opinion, and we just got to a tipping point where we all said, enough is enough and let’s exercise some options.”
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I bought something without understanding it.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I bought something without understanding it.
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Hamlin saying "I know NASCAR operates in bad faith but I did it anyways" isn't helpful at trial. Kind of like the endless variations of "NASCAR is the best and if you want to make real money in racing you have to be in NASCAR, there's no alternative" isn't actually a refutation of what the lawsuit is about rather than what it is the lawsuit is about.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
We're talking about what they do as a hobby after they leave a sport.
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I very seriously doubt Biffle or Edwards decided only post retirement that they needed helicopters. Doesn't make sense given the expense involved to me but unless someone has evidence to the contrary, I'm gonna assume that they got aircraft for the same reason that countless other race car drivers have gotten aircraft. They probably need to travel long distances quickly to do stuff related to their jobs as drivers. Donny Schatz has a plane. It's not like he got that because he's bored. He got it to get back to Fargo or Minot or wherever it is and run the truck stop.
 
virtualbalboa said:
Baseball for sure; hockey to a lesser extent. Basketball seems like it should be but the shoe money flowing through it keeps the whole development stream functioning. Football QBs are expected to be in QB camp in middle school it seems like, but other positions are different.
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Youth hockey it probably the worst of the big 4. The cost of equipment and team fees are higher than the other sports and there's just as many camps and specialized training sessions. Not to mention the private high schools.

Sure, you can buy budget equipment but without the specialized training you'll be quickly passed.

Its truly became a sport of the elites.

Apologies for getting off topic.
 
Conover said:
I believe this lawsuit was the objective of Jordan, Hambone and some others all along. They wanted all the teams to refuse to sign and join the suit. When they and Jenkins were left standing alone, they had to make a decision. Obviously they won’t be signing the agreement.

This is a huge challenge to NASCAR and the equilibrium we’ve had for quite a while. Antitrust litigation takes a LONG time to adjudicate. Key could be which judge gets assigned to the case. A very BIG early test will be related to the injunction request, seeking to allow both teams to race next season until the case is settled. NASCAR contracts require teams to not place lawsuits against the organization. Violations can include exclusion from participation in racing activities. I would expect that injunction to be granted, BUT if the judge finds that the contract is valid, both teams could be locked out of next season until the decision or settlement is completed.
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I suggested this very thing and as usual got poo-pooed by the NASCAR IS NEVER WRONG bunch.
 
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