23XI statement on not signing Charter agreement

Formerjackman said:
True, BUT RC has been a loyal foot soldier for NASCAR since the late 60's, and whether you agree or disagree with his point of view, he deserves a hell of a lot more respect than he got in those texts. If you ask me who is (or should be) more important to NASCAR, Phelps or Childress, Phelps doesn't have a prayer in Hell of winning that contest. There are certain people in this sport that I feel have a free pass for life, and Richard Childress is one of them.
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When he got on Nascar radio and aired out his dirty laundry, I'm sure you will think that was just fine, Nascar had it coming etc.
 
wi_racefan said:
Let's face the honest truth here. Nobody probably knows who Richard is these days if there's no Dale.
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Who signed Dale Earnhardt? Who put together and paid for the team that powered him to those championships and wins? It was him. He did that. NASCAR didn't do it for him or offer assistance. He did all of that. And that is precisely what we should expect. Why does it make sense that NASCAR should take all the money when he's the one actually taking the financial risk?
 
StandOnIt said:
I go by what they said about Childress. If you don't like being in Nascar, go ahead and sign the charter agreement and then sell out. The facts are he has made multi millions from Nascar...back to my post of saying the teams aren't broke. Drive by their house(s), take a look at the vineyards, yachts, planes etc. Look in the silly season threads, look who is expanding, forming alliances, JR's running a Cup car for Daytona. Broke teams don't do that.
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Sure, because the France family and the Steves and the other NASCAR corporate cronies are living in squalor, paycheck to paycheck, just hoping they can afford the utility bills to keep the lights on in their shanties, right? Give me a break.

Most team owners make their living outside of racing, and that's a fact. NASCAR executives have had too much stroke for far too long. Just look at the pie and how it's divided. NASCAR's head office needs to realize they aren't the star of the show, and the money should reflect that. Phelps and these other goofballs can be replaced in a second by someone far more competent. Can you say that about Hendrick, Gibbs, Penske, Childress, Roush, etc?
 
This soap opera of text messages coming from both sides is a lot of drama that won’t, for the most part, have one iota of meaning during the trial. Was Phelps stupid putting all that drivel into texts? Did he make an ass of himself for someone in such a high corporate position? ABSOLUTELY. Is it possible he has burned too many bridges to be effective in his role going forward? Very possibly. That will be something NASCAR has to deal with and make a decision on. But don't discount the info coming from the other side, Are principals discussing the intent and motive for these teams taking out the lawsuit? Are they demonstrating how their ploys and media spin were designed to set the table for damaging NASCAR? Was and is all this for the purpose of ultimately achieving a buyout forced by the court on behalf of Jordan and unnamed investors? Yes, yes and very possibly.

In the end NASCAR is trying to maintain their competitive position in the sports hierarchy as the #1 racing series in the US. Do their practices demonstrate a monopoly or monopsony and are illegal? That’s still a tall order. None of this jabber fest moves that needle.
 
2 Sweet said:
Sure, because the France family and the Steves and the other NASCAR corporate cronies are living in squalor, paycheck to paycheck, just hoping they can afford the utility bills to keep the lights on in their shanties, right? Give me a break.

Most team owners make their living outside of racing, and that's a fact. NASCAR executives have had too much stroke for far too long. Just look at the pie and how it's divided. NASCAR's head office needs to realize they aren't the star of the show, and the money should reflect that. Phelps and these other goofballs can be replaced in a second by someone far more competent. Can you say that about Hendrick, Gibbs, Penske, Childress, Roush, etc?
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Let's stick with Childress for the sake of simplicity. Where do you think Childress got the money to do all of this?

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StandOnIt said:
When he got on Nascar radio and aired out his dirty laundry, I'm sure you will think that was just fine, Nascar had it coming etc.
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Someone with RC's tenure has every right to speak his mind, and everybody has a right to voice an opinion. For NASCAR management to call someone that has been a part of your sport for almost 60 years a stupid redneck, especially considering the history of this sport is WAY beyond what should be considered acceptable. If Phelps worked for me, he would have already been fired multiple times over, but he DEFINITELY would have been cleaning out his desk as soon as this became known. Agree or disagree with the owners as much as you want, but if I'm Jim France, NOBODY talks about my car owners like that. The fact that Phelps still has a job leaves me with the conclusion that Jim probably feels the same way. NASCAR has been so incredibly thin skinned about this whole deal. Sometimes the best thing to do when someone that matters criticizes you is to stop and consider that MAYBE they have a point.
 
I bet if you go through all the team owners private messages and conversations you'll hear the same thing about nascar. Is that acceptable? The fact is none of this was ever intended to go beyond that private conversation. Now its just turned into blackmail in an attempt to force a settlement.

To me this actually makes 23XI and FRM look worse than nascar. Everything that they're leaking has no merit to the case and is only being used to harm the reputation of Nascar in an attempt to squeeze more money out of them. If I'm nascar at this point it's "buckle up buttercup" if you want a fight its on til one of us is gone.
 
rd45usa said:
Hope he is a witness.
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Mayfield is a two bit grifter whose sob story lost all credibility when he was actually arrested for having meth. When NASCAR suspended him, he was on his way out anyway. He was reduced to driving for himself after burning his bridge with Evernham. His two rides afterwards were with a pre-SHR Haas and a dying Bill Davis Racing so quality teams weren’t beating down the door.

If NASCAR really wanted Mayfield to go away, they just had to wait a few months for nature to take its course.
 
wi_racefan said:
I'm sorry but he needs to stay out of this one. Dude was guilty no matter what he says and all he had to do was the road to recovery and he was back in. Everyone does realize his career was already on life support when he failed the drug test right?
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He's got every right to speak up, they ruined his life because he didn't toe the company line. Hell they did the samething to Tim Richmond, turned out he had Aids.
 
rd45usa said:
He's got every right to speak up, they ruined his life because he didn't toe the company line. Hell they did the samething to Tim Richmond, turned out he had Aids.
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In what world? He failed a drug test, here's the program you have to follow to get back in. AJ did it and I bet most people now don't even realize he did.

Richmond was a different story. He was clearly very unhealthy and all the competitors were concerned about being out on the track with him. You can't go around like that and expect everyone to turn a blind eye to it and want to drive around you at 200 mph
 
wi_racefan said:
In what world? He failed a drug test, here's the program you have to follow to get back in. AJ did it and I bet most people now don't even realize he did.

Richmond was a different story. He was clearly very unhealthy and all the competitors were concerned about being out on the track with him. You can't go around like that and expect everyone to turn a blind eye to it and want to drive around you at 200 mph
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Tim Richmond was also during the peak of AIDS hysteria. What NASCAR did was obviously wrong, but there's no parallel to Mayfield.

What did NASCAR have to gain by ruining the life of a loudmouth backmarker?
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Conspiracy theories rarely reason through to demonstrating gain.
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The quickest way to become a fan favorite among some in the NASCAR "fan" community is to make up conspiracies against the sanctioning body or otherwise attack them in some way. Jeremy Mayfield has used this to his advantage to gain some fans.

Nuance is lost on some.
 
Naitch said:
Tim Richmond was also during the peak of AIDS hysteria. What NASCAR did was obviously wrong, but there's no parallel to Mayfield.

What did NASCAR have to gain by ruining the life of a loudmouth backmarker?
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I'm not going to suggest NASCAR did everything right in either the Richmond or Mayfield cases, but as for Richmond, HE was the one who was not forthcoming and NASCAR was forced to react to what they were actually seeing; a serious illness, some erratic behavior, and a failed drug test. I happen to be at Michigan the weekend he almost missed qualifying and then clutched the motor during the race and blew it up. The likely truth is he wasn't well enough in August of 1987 to still be in the car, and even less likely he was in February 1988. Never mind the fact that he was putting safety workers at risk by not disclosing his illness. As for Mayfield, I honestly don't know what to believe, especially considering the complete lack of credibility Brian France has, but the whole conspiracy angle never made a lick of sense to me. Why would NASCAR give two cents what Jeremy Mayfield was doing? He was already on the express train to irrelevancy. If you are NASCAR, what do they have to gain by framing someone in the series and bringing attention to the sport that some competitors might use drugs? Now is it possible they tried to bury him AFTER the fact, maybe, but I still don't see a clear motive or gain for NASCAR.
 
wi_racefan said:
I bet if you go through all the team owners private messages and conversations you'll hear the same thing about nascar. Is that acceptable? The fact is none of this was ever intended to go beyond that private conversation. Now its just turned into blackmail in an attempt to force a settlement.

To me this actually makes 23XI and FRM look worse than nascar. Everything that they're leaking has no merit to the case and is only being used to harm the reputation of Nascar in an attempt to squeeze more money out of them. If I'm nascar at this point it's "buckle up buttercup" if you want a fight its on til one of us is gone.
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You might be right, but even so, as a sanctioning body you really DO need to take the higher road. I'm fine with the fact that at least some in NASCAR had serious differences of opinion with RC, but those comments show a complete lack of respect for someone who has been as loyal as an ally as NASCAR has had for almost 60 years. Completely unprofessional even if the comments were never meant for public viewing. One, that's completely naive in the 21st century, and it's also a senior executive trashing an ally and friend to a lower level person, which is also incredibly dumb.
 
Formerjackman said:
Someone with RC's tenure has every right to speak his mind, and everybody has a right to voice an opinion. For NASCAR management to call someone that has been a part of your sport for almost 60 years a stupid redneck, especially considering the history of this sport is WAY beyond what should be considered acceptable. If Phelps worked for me, he would have already been fired multiple times over, but he DEFINITELY would have been cleaning out his desk as soon as this became known. Agree or disagree with the owners as much as you want, but if I'm Jim France, NOBODY talks about my car owners like that. The fact that Phelps still has a job leaves me with the conclusion that Jim probably feels the same way. NASCAR has been so incredibly thin skinned about this whole deal. Sometimes the best thing to do when someone that matters criticizes you is to stop and consider that MAYBE they have a point.
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Post #4499, option 5 explains NASCAR's position. They are headed to an IRL/CART type split. NASCAR doesn't put ANY value on teams over 5 ish years old. Want them gone. NASCAR owns the car & tracks. Believe "somebody" will be happy to come in and lick their boots once the teat suckers are gone.

This is the direction our country is headed. Quickly. Only those with a huge bank account matter. Let the poors die off.
 
KTMLew01 said:
Post #4499, option 5 explains NASCAR's position. They are headed to an IRL/CART type split. NASCAR doesn't put ANY value on teams over 5 ish years old. Want them gone. NASCAR owns the car & tracks. Believe "somebody" will be happy to come in and lick their boots once the teat suckers are gone.

This is the direction our country is headed. Quickly. Only those with a huge bank account matter. Let the poors die off.
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So they dont care about Penske, Hendrick or Gibbs? I mean those are all over "5 ish" years old lol!
 
StandOnIt said:
Let's stick with Childress for the sake of simplicity. Where do you think Childress got the money to do all of this?
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He made deals and made money. Why aren't Bobby Allison, Cale Yarborough, Darrell Waltrip, the Stavola Bros, The Yates family, or Larry Mcclure as successful if NASCAR did it all?
 
I think one of the issues NASCAR misses sometimes is that this sport exist because people are fans of drivers, cars and teams. NASCAR itself is just a necessary evil that allows the actual event to take place. Nobody has any particular loyalty to NASCAR as an entity any more than they do the NFL, the MLB or the NBA.
 
virtualbalboa said:
He made deals and made money. Why aren't Bobby Allison, Cale Yarborough, Darrell Waltrip, the Stavola Bros, The Yates family, or Larry Mcclure as successful if NASCAR did it all?
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And I don't care if a Childress car EVER won a race, he was one of the guys making sure there WAS a show every week. If guys like Phelps would have been there in the trenches with guys like Childress and Hylton and Langley and McDuffie and Means and Scott, maybe they would have a little more f***ing appreciation for the guys that poured out their guts for very little of anything so the circus could keep going every week. I will say it one more time. I don't care if RC is the most wrong man on the planet, he deserves more respect than he got from Phelps.
 
wi_racefan said:
I'm sorry but he needs to stay out of this one. Dude was guilty no matter what he says and all he had to do was the road to recovery and he was back in. Everyone does realize his career was already on life support when he failed the drug test right?
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KTMLew01 said:
Exactly. All those teams want permanent charters. NASCAR has made it clear that will never happen. NASCAR only wants boot lickers.
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Here is where I'll disagree; if Hamlin is right, then they don't want really rich people either. Those people understand business. They want drivers to own teams because they have "passion", enough money to blow on a team for many years before going bankrupt and a GED.
 
When you look at a conspiracy theory, you have to ask if the effort is worth the end result.

Why would NASCAR need to falsify a positive meth test to get rid of a guy who was a back marker in his own equipment? It makes no sense.

Mayfield is taking some of you for a ride and you’re happily hopping aboard because it justifies your hate for the sanctioning body.
 
Naitch said:
When you look at a conspiracy theory, you have to ask if the effort is worth the end result.

Why would NASCAR need to falsify a positive meth test to get rid of a guy who was a back marker in his own equipment? It makes no sense.

Mayfield is taking some of you for a ride and you’re happily hopping aboard because it justifies your hate for the sanctioning body.
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I don’t hate Nascar itself, I dislike the leadership. It needs a cleaning from the top down.
 
gnomesayin said:
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I don't disagree with anything Despain said there, but I do think you can't ignore the fact that this whole circus was set in motion BECAUSE Richmond was not honest about what was going on. His behavior and lack an explanation for it only encouraged people to jump to conclusions. No matter how you slice it, it seems fairly evident to me that Tim was NOT fit enough to be competing and NASCAR was doing the right thing, but used an underhanded and ****** way of accomplishing it. I'm not going to excuse that, but would it have been any less awful if they had forced Tim to have full bloodwork done including an HIV test? The rumor was out there, I first heard it from some connected people in the spring of 1987, before he ever got back in a racecar. Tim was never really able to come to grips with what happened to him, and chose to try to play the victim of NASCAR instead of a just laying it all out for the world to see and judge. Under those circumstances, it's hard to complain too much about how you're treated.
 
virtualbalboa said:
Here is where I'll disagree; if Hamlin is right, then they don't want really rich people either. Those people understand business. They want drivers to own teams because they have "passion", enough money to blow on a team for many years before going bankrupt and a GED.
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Actually the better way to look at it. I stand corrected.
 
StandOnIt said:
Let's stick with Childress for the sake of simplicity. Where do you think Childress got the money to do all of this?

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Childress hired the most popular driver in the history of American auto racing, and won six titles. So yeah, I think he earned it.

What about the other owners? You chose to stick with Childress for the "sake of simplicity" lol. Do you think Mr. H uses his race team to pay for all his dealerships? What about Roger?
 
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