All Electric NASCAR Series on the Horizon

Anybody else here with a firefighting background? Electric car fires are absolute nightmares at the moment and I don’t see that changing. It’s all fun and games until we have to dig holes in the infields to put the cars in and flood them


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The problem with fighting lithium-ion battery fires is that few people know how to do it. Drowning them with water is actually a poor method. The lithium-ion battery industry, as well as the EV industry, needs to do a better job educating firefighters and possibly help distribute the correct kinds of extinguishers.

Lithium-ion batteries contain salts that are self-oxidizing. That means, unlike many other materials, they do not need oxygen from the air to keep them burning - they generate their own oxygen. So smothering them is not sufficient. Lithium-ion batteries burn at a high enough temperature to start and maintain the chemical reaction that causes self-oxidizing. Firefighters must cool these batteries below that temperature. This is why lithium-ion battery fires that appear to be out can reignite even hours later.

In some cases water can actually make the fire worse. Lithium-ion fires can be hot enough to break water down into its components (hydrogen and oxygen) which in turn becomes more fuel for a fire. Generally this does not happen as massive amounts of water are applied (such as from a fire hose) because the water pressure washes away the vapors as they are created. But water that seeps into the battery compartment is vulnerable - particularly when the fire is thought to be out but the batteries are still very hot.

Dry chemical and CO2 extinguishers seem to work the best. The main thing is to get the batteries cooled off quickly and thoroughly. The water used against most fires, typically around ambient temperature, is not cold enough. Smothering blankets can only contain the fire to the battery space - they cannot extinguish the fire, they may only keep it contained to a particular space until the batteries run out of self-oxidizing material.

There are companies working on better methods and materials for extinguishing lithium-ion fires, but they are not publicly well-known yet. I suspect that this technology will improve as EV technology in general improves. Hopefully our fire fighters will get the training and materials they need.

By the way, lithium-ion battery technology is facing competitive battery chemistry technologies that may replace them. Many of these new technologies have less threat of catching fire and can be easier to extinguish.
 
Now if we can get Government Motors and the Kamikaze Kids to follow suit it would be great!
 
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Well further down now.

Story says because talks with Dodge have dried up, though I would think it might have to do with redesigning the whole rear end on the next gen
 

From the article....

"Because it does create that spectacle, it does create that emotional, passionate connection to the vehicle, which helps our brand.

"At this point, with some of the cost and complexity with hybrid, if it’s not going to add to the race, then we don’t think it needs to be on there."

Amen. :salute:
 
Electric cars without slots, powered by amperage from the track…no on-board batteries. 😁

THAT would be interesting…otherwise leave the dangerous EV NASCAR concepts alone until better tech arrives. Previous discussion regarding fires is a real danger and a massive hazard. Want to endure a 2 hour red flag? Bet it would likely take that long to secure and contain a racing battery fire, even with the best equipment.
 
Late 2023 was probably ambitious for an electric series but I’d hope they’re still looking at hybrid to add more power and try to attract another OEM within the next few years. I doubt most people could tell a hybrid V8 has been electrified. Garage 56 HMS Camaro is hopefully still a hybrid project.
 
Although I like electric cars and have built some electric conversions (although I've not raced them) I also am a traditionalist who prefers that NASCAR restricts itself to its original concept: race cars that largely resemble street cars that everybody can purchase. As of today, and probably for several more years, there are only a few electric cars widely available (available everywhere across the country) and I'm not sure that any of them could meet NASCAR's wheelbase and length rules without ridiculous modifications... assuming that NASCAR would allow electrics to compete head-to-head with their gasoline cars. Probably wouldn't happen at all without manufacturer support, and I don't expect that to occur any time soon.

Not sure why people claim that electric car racing is boring? Other than the Formula E races (which I admit I haven't had time to watch) where have they seen electric cars race? Maybe assuming that racing is no good without loud engine noise? If noise is the problem, maybe that's why crowds are down at local tracks too if there isn't a high powered series race that night?

The concerns about battery fires after wrecks is legitimate. Those fires require different firefighting equipment and materials, operated by specially trained people. Getting the right equipment and training should not be much of a problem for an organization like NASCAR, but those fires are harder to deal with. NASCAR would likely need to add rules for battery pack construction that would allow them to be disabled and rendered safe quickly.
 
Although I like electric cars and have built some electric conversions (although I've not raced them) I also am a traditionalist who prefers that NASCAR restricts itself to its original concept: race cars that largely resemble street cars that everybody can purchase. ... and I'm not sure that any of them could meet NASCAR's wheelbase and length rules without ridiculous modifications... assuming that NASCAR would allow electrics to compete head-to-head with their gasoline cars.
They not going to compete against ICE cars. It will be a separate series. Wheelbase and other standards from Cup won't necessarily apply; it will likely be a whole new rulebook, written in chalk like all the others.

NASCAR is (mis)managing multiple series already; it's capable of screwing up one more.
 
Waiting for solar hoods, roofs, and trunk lids along with left fenders, doors, quarter panels for some additional sunnage.
 
One thing electrically that would intrest me is remote controlled drone/car racing.
Cars about the size of legends doing 280mph while the pilots
controll them from pit road boxes or from a spotters stand. Crashes
that no one gets hurt in.

The dirt race I was at last weekend had a drone flying over the track
during the race for tv coverage. It was amazing seeing how fast they flew
with the green and red blinking lights.
 
This was posted in the F1 section on motorsport.com but I think it could have significance for NASCAR as well.
Partially thanks to the heroics of our transportation secretary, the EU has decided against banning internal combustion engines from 2035, with ICEs powered by carbon-neutral e-fuels remaining allowed in new cars even beyond 2035. This has led some manufacturers to re-think their electrification strategies.
With North America generally having much larger distances between places it seems pretty likely that American manufacturers will also explore e-fuels.

A big reason why the NextGen got so much attention at Le Mans was the screaming V8 engine. I can't imagine NASCAR will get rid of that in the near future and if sustainable fuels can be introduced they might not have to get rid of it even in the more distant future.
 
This was posted in the F1 section on motorsport.com but I think it could have significance for NASCAR as well.
Partially thanks to the heroics of our transportation secretary, the EU has decided against banning internal combustion engines from 2035, with ICEs powered by carbon-neutral e-fuels remaining allowed in new cars even beyond 2035. This has led some manufacturers to re-think their electrification strategies.
With North America generally having much larger distances between places it seems pretty likely that American manufacturers will also explore e-fuels.

A big reason why the NextGen got so much attention at Le Mans was the screaming V8 engine. I can't imagine NASCAR will get rid of that in the near future and if sustainable fuels can be introduced they might not have to get rid of it even in the more distant future.

Sustainable fuel is only part of the equation. There's still the issue of the byproduct of carbon dioxide which is contributing to Climate Change.
 
This was posted in the F1 section on motorsport.com but I think it could have significance for NASCAR as well.
Partially thanks to the heroics of our transportation secretary, the EU has decided against banning internal combustion engines from 2035, with ICEs powered by carbon-neutral e-fuels remaining allowed in new cars even beyond 2035. This has led some manufacturers to re-think their electrification strategies.
With North America generally having much larger distances between places it seems pretty likely that American manufacturers will also explore e-fuels.

A big reason why the NextGen got so much attention at Le Mans was the screaming V8 engine. I can't imagine NASCAR will get rid of that in the near future and if sustainable fuels can be introduced they might not have to get rid of it even in the more distant future.

I think the cat is out of the bag on EV myths on a lot of environmental fronts. It's well-documented that the batteries are awful for the environment. People are raising the question on how the electricity they use is produced... valid concerns if it's burning oil or coal. ICE emissions today are nothing compared to 25 years ago, just as emissions 25 years ago were nothing compared to emissions 25 years before that. There's sooooo much more left to develop with gasoline and automobile technology. Standard ICE cars are getting 40-50mpg on the highway which I would've thought would be insane 15 years ago.

Electric cars are just a stop-gap till hydrogen powered cars are available to the mass markets. I think that is going to happen sooner than people think. Tesla dominates EV's so do current manufacturers play catch-up to them or try to develop the next big leap forward with hydrogen?
 
I think the cat is out of the bag on EV myths on a lot of environmental fronts. It's well-documented that the batteries are awful for the environment. People are raising the question on how the electricity they use is produced... valid concerns if it's burning oil or coal. ICE emissions today are nothing compared to 25 years ago, just as emissions 25 years ago were nothing compared to emissions 25 years before that. There's sooooo much more left to develop with gasoline and automobile technology. Standard ICE cars are getting 40-50mpg on the highway which I would've thought would be insane 15 years ago.

Electric cars are just a stop-gap till hydrogen powered cars are available to the mass markets. I think that is going to happen sooner than people think. Tesla dominates EV's so do current manufacturers play catch-up to them or try to develop the next big leap forward with hydrogen?
Depends on who you listen too. The petro boys are in a full on hard press to keep their dirty businesses going full bore. Plenty of new battery technology being developed that isn't hard on the environment. Plenty of energy being produced that isn't coal like natural gas and wind and solar.
 
I think the cat is out of the bag on EV myths on a lot of environmental fronts. It's well-documented that the batteries are awful for the environment. People are raising the question on how the electricity they use is produced... valid concerns if it's burning oil or coal. ICE emissions today are nothing compared to 25 years ago, just as emissions 25 years ago were nothing compared to emissions 25 years before that. There's sooooo much more left to develop with gasoline and automobile technology. Standard ICE cars are getting 40-50mpg on the highway which I would've thought would be insane 15 years ago.

Electric cars are just a stop-gap till hydrogen powered cars are available to the mass markets. I think that is going to happen sooner than people think. Tesla dominates EV's so do current manufacturers play catch-up to them or try to develop the next big leap forward with hydrogen?

EV cars have the great advantage of being incredibly cheap to maintain. No oil changes or gas fillups is unbelievably huge in the long run. People when discussing their cars cost so often just talk about their monthly payment, not the cost of maintenance/gas/insurance as well. It’s part of the reason I bought a fully loaded Colorado over the same version of the Silverado
 
EV cars have the great advantage of being incredibly cheap to maintain. No oil changes or gas fillups is unbelievably huge in the long run. People when discussing their cars cost so often just talk about their monthly payment, not the cost of maintenance/gas/insurance as well. It’s part of the reason I bought a fully loaded Colorado over the same version of the Silverado
Yeah I follow a guy on Youtube that has a Chevy Volt and it is costing him 3 cents a mile worth of electricity to drive it.
 
EV cars have the great advantage of being incredibly cheap to maintain. No oil changes or gas fillups is unbelievably huge in the long run. People when discussing their cars cost so often just talk about their monthly payment, not the cost of maintenance/gas/insurance as well. It’s part of the reason I bought a fully loaded Colorado over the same version of the Silverado
Until you have to change the batteries.......
 
Interesting. Would you name a production model available in the US that gets this kind of mileage?

Thanks!
My dad managed to go 1,200 km on one 61-liter tank of gas which equals 46.3 miles per gallon
2011 BMW 325d E91, inline-6 Diesel engine. I'm pretty sure that was sold in the states as well. (maybe not the E91 but the E90)
 
Most taxis are Toyota Prius, they get close to or over a million miles during their lifetime. Running 24/7
I know several people that own them and bad battery cells are serious issue. The thing with the prius is it's a hybrid so when the batteries start to fail it will continue to run on the ICE, just the fuel efficiency will drastically go down.
 
Interesting. Would you name a production model available in the US that gets this kind of mileage?

Thanks!

Corolla gets 41mpg highway, Civic gets 42mpg, Elantra 42mpg. I'm sure there's some specialty stuff I'm not aware of that can do better. But I'm not gonna name little specialty cars no one owns lol. I know Smart cars broke the 45mpg barrier a few years ago... but not available in the US anymore.
 
I was just reading about the weight concerns of these new electric cars and it seems to be something very serious that is being overlooked. With the electric motors and batteries these things weigh a lot more than a traditional car and multi story parking structures are not rated to handle this load.
 
A quick Google search shows a Tesla model 3 tops out at 4048 pounds. A Chevy Colorado starts at 4200 and can reach almost 5000.

I'd think if there was a parking garage weight problem, the increase in the number of trucks over traditional ICE cars would have caused collapsed structures a decade ago.
 
A quick Google search shows a Tesla model 3 tops out at 4048 pounds. A Chevy Colorado starts at 4200 and can reach almost 5000.

I'd think if there was a parking garage weight problem, the increase in the number of trucks over traditional ICE cars would have caused collapsed structures a decade ago.
But traditional city dwellers that would be parking in parking garages typically don't drive trucks.
 
A quick Google search shows a Tesla model 3 tops out at 4048 pounds. A Chevy Colorado starts at 4200 and can reach almost 5000.

I'd think if there was a parking garage weight problem, the increase in the number of trucks over traditional ICE cars would have caused collapsed structures a decade ago.
Here is a couple more. Curb weight for a Chevy Bolt is 3589, Nissan Leaf 3484. High end is a Ford F-150 lightning at 8550
 
A quick Google search shows a Tesla model 3 tops out at 4048 pounds. A Chevy Colorado starts at 4200 and can reach almost 5000.

I'd think if there was a parking garage weight problem, the increase in the number of trucks over traditional ICE cars would have caused collapsed structures a decade ago.

One did recently collapse in lower Manhattan. The preliminary findings say the weight of all the SUV's caused it but I don't really buy that as it was built in the 50's and all cars were 5000 pounds back then.
 
Electric cars have their place but it isn't the total solution. In the northern part of the country we know the battery is the weakest component in winter. We'll see how people like replacing batteries down the road. There isn't a standard charging port yet. Plus the size of a gas station will need to grow to a Walmart parking lot to charge the same number of cars a gas station services. I think electric cars transfer one form of pollution for another.
 
But traditional city dwellers that would be parking in parking garages typically don't drive trucks.

You obviously haven't been to a NYC parking garage in a while. People that live in Manhattan don't have cars it people from the burbs with SUVs who use the parking garages.
 
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