All-Star Race package for the Brickyard

I can get on board with something like this for Indy.. Never for an intermediate or a 2 mile track though.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
The pavement is already there. If IMSA can run on it, Cup should be able to. There's the question of whether it will be worth watching, but I'd like to see it tried.
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Indycar runs it 3 weeks before the 500. I can see it being a fun track for stock cars.
 
DUN24 said:
Indycar runs it 3 weeks before the 500. I can see it being a fun track for stock cars.
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Yeah, that's an enjoyable race.

I didn't mention it because I don't think a layout that puts on a good Indycar race necessarily makes a good Cup course. The Indy Lights put on a Hell of a show on the Indy oval today, but we all know what Cup cars look like on the same circuit.

(It also demonstrates how many people are attending the I500 just to say they were at an event. The same cars and drivers in the same facility run the infield for a much lower ticket price, yet the turnout doesn't come close.)
 
it was a restrictor plate race without the plate, almost wide open around the whole thing. IndyCars do the same thing. It works there.
 
Most of y'all disagree with me, but... I always look forward to the Brickyard 400. It is an intriguing race on a circuit that is difficult to drive, which is why I like the low downforce rules there. I like the later date IMS has this year. I would like to see Xfinity (and trucks too) at IRP. No need to run these lower divisions at IMS.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Most of y'all disagree with me, but... I always look forward to the Brickyard 400. It is an intriguing race on a circuit that is difficult to drive, which is why I like the low downforce rules there. I like the later date IMS has this year. I would like to see Xfinity (and trucks too) at IRP. No need to run these lower divisions at IMS.
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I do like the technicality of these heavy cars on that race track, but the “indyesque” style of the Xfinity cars on that track is pretty great. Cup may be able to benifit. Let’s try and go faster than 170 though..
 
Charlie Spencer said:
(It also demonstrates how many people are attending the I500 just to say they were at an event. The same cars and drivers in the same facility run the infield for a much lower ticket price, yet the turnout doesn't come close.)
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This touches on a larger and more significant reality that I don't think is taken into account nearly enough. The much maligned Brickyard 400 is a TV ratings juggernaut for NBC and NASCAR. In a sport that is funded primarily through television rights money, jettisoning the event makes zero sense. It drew considerably more viewers in 2017 than the Homestead finale, fall Talladega, or any other second half of the season race. Why? Because it is the Brickyard 400 at Indianapolis Motor Speedway. Those who disrespect the true significance of that venue aren't following the plot IMO, if the discussion is about what motivates large masses of people to watch or not watch.

I am not against change. I evaluate changes on their merits, and am dumbfounded by the "credit for trying something" mindset. I believe the current itch to 'fix' the racing by wildly reversing course speaks to a widespread dissatisfaction with and lack of confidence in the product that I don't understand. The quality of the racing this year has been quite good overall. That core lack of faith and continual desire to chase something new and shiny is not something larger audiences who aren't already motivated to watch will find appealing.
 
StandOnIt said:
it was a restrictor plate race without the plate, almost wide open around the whole thing. IndyCars do the same thing. It works there.
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It works better there than it does in Charlotte, for sure.
 
NASCAR"s getting nervous there young drivers like William Byron and Daniel can't win without a plate
 
I don't by any means believe that IndyCar should be wide open around IMS either. They would be wise to take more downforce out of the car, especially after announcing that they'll be adding more HP in their next engine package. However, comparing "wide open" at ~220 mph and the challenge inherent in maintaining those sketchy speeds on that track to wide open at 170 mph is misguided. If you doubt that, envision what wide open at 120 mph would look like.
 
hide an watch. I predict they will add more downforce along with the horsepower. As it is now, on new tires they just burp the throttle around the turns. Most of their passing is done on the straights by drafting, and the lead car can't block. Some would say that is a gimmick, but it works. Stock cars need to be able to push and shove IMO. As it is, there is no earthly way they can run flat out around Indy, and getting a run thru the corners for a pass down the straights is impossible because they will lose the front end if they get too close to the lead car in a corner. No way they will go thru there side by side. I think they could with the aero package or at least be able to stay close enough to get a run down the straight. I suggest looking at the width of the tires, the weight of the car over twice as much, the center of gravity and the downforce to weight ratio. It's walking and flying difference. To mimic what the indycars have, it will take less speed and tons more downforce.
 
gnomesayin said:
I don't by any means believe that IndyCar should be wide open around IMS either. They would be wise to take more downforce out of the car, especially after announcing that they'll be adding more HP in their next engine package. However, comparing "wide open" at ~220 mph and the challenge inherent in maintaining those sketchy speeds on that track to wide open at 170 mph is misguided. If you doubt that, envision what wide open at 120 mph would look like.
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The Indy 500 is a very good race with incomparable history and tradition. It would be much greater as a race than it currently is, if the drivers had to lift and brake entering the corners, and then pedal it past the apex before achieving full throttle for the run down the straight. That would restore the Indy 500 to what it was and what it should be. But that is just my opinion.

Next Monday there will be a slew of articles trumpeting the 50+ passes of the leader and calling it the greatest race ever, and I'll shake my head again like last year and the year before. I think most race fans and essentially all of the media love WFO racing with aero penalties on the leader that create a pack of chasers and a bloated statistic of # of passes for the lead.

For example, that IndyCar aerofest at Fontana in 2015 had over 80 lead changes in 250 laps. It was described in the media using incredible superlatives... greatest auto race ever, etc. And for 250 laps, no driver ever feathered the throttle, and every pass was induced by the aero drag penalty on the leader. And every pass caused the next pass as the aero penalty transferred to the new leader. Not good racing to me, but I feel like a dinosaur on this topic... there are a few of us, but we are outnumbered for sure.
 
Yeah, I can't agree more. More doesn't always equal better, and the law of diminishing returns often applies when events like "lead changes" become so commonplace as to lose significance.
 
There were many Indy races in the 80's that had 20 plus passes for the lead. I guess it comes down to perception. Like Penske says, the world has changed. Back in the 80's it was done with less downforce and much slower speeds and I would guess a smaller hole in the air for harder passing.
 
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Spotter22 said:
I'll go one even better, drop IMS, take 100 million and revamp the seating and facilities at IRP and run it.
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Yes! More short tracks please...how many seats would they have to add ...20k ?

gnomesayin said:
This touches on a larger and more significant reality that I don't think is taken into account nearly enough. The much maligned Brickyard 400 is a TV ratings juggernaut for NBC and NASCAR. In a sport that is funded primarily through television rights money, jettisoning the event makes zero sense. It drew considerably more viewers in 2017 than the Homestead finale, fall Talladega, or any other second half of the season race. Why? Because it is the Brickyard 400 at Indianapolis Motor Speedway. Those who disrespect the true significance of that venue aren't following the plot IMO, if the discussion is about what motivates large masses of people to watch or not watch.

I am not against change. I evaluate changes on their merits, and am dumbfounded by the "credit for trying something" mindset. I believe the current itch to 'fix' the racing by wildly reversing course speaks to a widespread dissatisfaction with and lack of confidence in the product that I don't understand. The quality of the racing this year has been quite good overall. That core lack of faith and continual desire to chase something new and shiny is not something larger audiences who aren't already motivated to watch will find appealing.
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This is what i don't understand either, Nascar seems to be moving in the right direction this year, the racing is better. Yet they want to add more changes with a plate? isn't the next generation car coming out next year too?
 
Snappy D said:
Is it true if you sit on the front stretch, that's the only time you'll see the cars come by? I've never been there, the place is on my bucket list. When I went to Daytona in 15 and 17 that was my worst fear but you sit high enough, you're actually okay. I hate that this race is on life support, being from the midwest Indy is such a special place. When I was a kid, watching the Brickyard 400 felt like a big deal but like Spotter said once the newness wore off no one came back. Sad really, I hope things align where I can go this year or next, not sure if this race will be on the schedule in 10 years listening to some of you talk.
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It’s been 20 years for me and the brickyard but I was in turn three for 96 and saw the battle down the backstretch, 3 and mostly 4 going into the front. Looking back that was legit probably the best seat. I don’t think you’d get the same view sitting in turn 1 because of all the pit road facilities blocking that. Kinda interesting.

Looking back it was a special vibe back then for Indy. So these days that feeling is probably gone. But that place was electric when I went.
 
[Insert relevant Little Al quote here] Indy has never been about going as slow as ****.

If that is the future of this event, that is why I'd rather they just scrap the whole damn thing.
 
gnomesayin said:
This touches on a larger and more significant reality that I don't think is taken into account nearly enough. The much maligned Brickyard 400 is a TV ratings juggernaut for NBC and NASCAR. In a sport that is funded primarily through television rights money, jettisoning the event makes zero sense. It drew considerably more viewers in 2017 than the Homestead finale, fall Talladega, or any other second half of the season race. Why? Because it is the Brickyard 400 at Indianapolis Motor Speedway. Those who disrespect the true significance of that venue aren't following the plot IMO, if the discussion is about what motivates large masses of people to watch or not watch.

I am not against change. I evaluate changes on their merits, and am dumbfounded by the "credit for trying something" mindset. I believe the current itch to 'fix' the racing by wildly reversing course speaks to a widespread dissatisfaction with and lack of confidence in the product that I don't understand. The quality of the racing this year has been quite good overall. That core lack of faith and continual desire to chase something new and shiny is not something larger audiences who aren't already motivated to watch will find appealing.
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This. The amount of people that crap on the Brickyard and IMS just because they find the race boring and want the event dropped just to have a change is disrespectful to me. The Brickyard is one of my must watch events on the calendar every year, it’s Indy for god sake! Every driver I would think wants to win this race , in no way should it ever be off the schedule, I don’t care what rules package they run I just want them to race there and I’ll bitch about the package later.
 
Snappy D said:
This. The amount of people that crap on the Brickyard and IMS just because they find the race boring and want the event dropped just to have a change is disrespectful to me. The Brickyard is one of my must watch events on the calendar every year, it’s Indy for god sake! Every driver I would think wants to win this race , in no way should it ever be off the schedule, I don’t care what rules package they run I just want them to race there and I’ll bitch about the package later.
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This right here.
 
Snappy D said:
The amount of people that crap on the Brickyard and IMS just because they find the race boring and want the event dropped just to have a change is disrespectful to me.
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I have plenty of respect for the IMS and its history.

The Brickyard 400 is another matter. About all I value is the #88's tradition of kissing the bricks, the only unique legacy NASCAR has left the track so far. Otherwise, I see no reason to respect a boring race. They could run it in the Roman Colliseum or around the Egyptian Pyramids or on top of the wall around the Vatican but if the racing isn't any good, why bother?
 
Charlie Spencer said:
The Brickyard 400 is another matter. About all I value is the #88's tradition of kissing the bricks, the only unique legacy NASCAR has left the track so far. Otherwise, I see no reason to respect a boring race. They could run it in the Roman Colliseum or around the Egyptian Pyramids or on top of the wall around the Vatican but if the racing isn't any good, why bother?
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The reason to respect the race is because it is a challenging track both to drive and to prepare cars for, and demands top performance. There is a reason that in 24 editions of the race, there have been only three winners who aren't champions or legends of the sport. Instead the list of winners is littered with Earnhardts, Gordons, Johnsons, Stewarts, etc. Generally, winning there ain't no fluke, and it is a genuine test of skill. I don't find that boring at all. Move to the dumbed down ASR package, and much of this is removed from the equation. Taking a race like that and turning it into a free-for-all not only isn't entertaining to me, it's a disgrace.
 
gnomesayin said:
The reason to respect the race is because it is a challenging track both to drive and to prepare cars for, and demands top performance. There is a reason that in 24 editions of the race, there have been only three winners who aren't champions or legends of the sport. Instead the list of winners is littered with Earnhardts, Gordons, Johnsons, Stewarts, etc. Generally, winning there ain't no fluke, and it is a genuine test of skill. I don't find that boring at all. Move to the dumbed down ASR package, and much of this is removed from the equation. Taking a race like that and turning it into a free-for-all not only isn't entertaining to me, it's a disgrace.
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add Menard, jaime Mac, and Kahne. :D
 
StandOnIt said:
add Menard, jaime Mac, and Kahne. :D
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Yeah, those were the three. I'll be fair and admit that it looks to have become somewhat more randomized in the past 8 years or so. Still a challenging race overall.
 
that is three out of 24 races over 10%. Throw in on the line Newman and it almost goes to 20%
 
StandOnIt said:
that is three out of 24 races over 10%. Throw in on the line Newman and it almost goes to 20%
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Are you really going to argue that overall it has not been a more challenging than average race to win and run up front in?

Eh, never mind, don't answer that. :D
 
not at all, it is even more difficult than the ARCA and Xfinity at Charlotte where the leader gets out front and it is almost impossible to pass with a faster car.
 
gnomesayin said:
Move to the dumbed down ASR package, and much of this is removed from the equation. Taking a race like that and turning it into a free-for-all not only isn't entertaining to me, it's a disgrace.
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Okay, we're in agreement there.

IMS may indeed be difficult to prep for and drive. There are tracks that could be both challenging and entertaining I'd prefer to see tried on the Cup schedule in its place.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
IMS may indeed be difficult to prep for and drive. There are tracks that could be both challenging and entertaining I'd prefer to see tried on the Cup schedule in its place.
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I think Pocono is very worthy, but if the schedule were going to lose one of those 'boring' races, I would argue that one trip to Pocono is sufficient, and replace the second date there with Road America. :D
 
gnomesayin said:
I think Pocono is very worthy, but if the schedule were going to lose one of those 'boring' races, I would argue that one trip to Pocono is sufficient, and replace the second date there with Road America. :D
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My gritch with RA is that 4 miles is just too frickin' long. Relative to the length of the race, they lose too many laps during cautions.

Using the Pocono infield solves the political problem of moving a race to another track. (It can't be called a 'roval' since it was never an oval to begin with. Oh, and the phrase is now trademarked.)
 
gnomesayin said:
The reason to respect the race is because it is a challenging track both to drive and to prepare cars for, and demands top performance. There is a reason that in 24 editions of the race, there have been only three winners who aren't champions or legends of the sport. Instead the list of winners is littered with Earnhardts, Gordons, Johnsons, Stewarts, etc. Generally, winning there ain't no fluke, and it is a genuine test of skill. I don't find that boring at all. Move to the dumbed down ASR package, and much of this is removed from the equation. Taking a race like that and turning it into a free-for-all not only isn't entertaining to me, it's a disgrace.
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My thoughts exactly, well said.
 
Snappy D said:
it’s Indy for god sake!.
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What does this even mean? The track isn’t even infamous for stock car racing. The Indy 500 & Brickyard 400 are not in the same zipcode when it comes to prestige. NASCAR sitting on IndyCar’s coattails is all to see here.
 
I knew doug boles looked sneaky. Never trust a male with glasses and that fake smile.
 
No argument from me.

When the 500 was at its zenith there were 400,000 people at the track.
 
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