Biffle Says Goodbye To Roush

kymartin6 said:
Several of Jack's drivers have been overly loyal to the point of hurting their careers...... probably more so than any other owner it seems... It is very commendable of them and shows character for what seems gratitude for Jack giving them a chance to drive in the top series.... I was always amazed at the loyalty and what held them there for so many years.... Mark stayed for almost 20 years.... but many of his years were building Roush into a formidable team..... When Biffle, then Kenseth and Edwards came on..... it was still a powerhouse with Kurt Busch as a team mate.... then it all started to get a little worse and worse until the writing was on the wall for everyone.... Biffle just happens to be the last man out......
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That Biffle, Edwards, Martin, Kenseth, Busch team was pretty damn stout. Probably the best stable of drivers to ever work together at the same time.
 
What baffles me is in a sport with no salary cap, no draft, no revenue sharing, and where money literally buys performance, how a team with massive sponsorship dollars and dominant performance can fall this far. It shouldn't be possible. It would be like Manchester United being relegated, or the Yankees folding. Someone (Jack) must have screwed up on an unbelievable scale. Just sad.
 
I like Biffle and always believed he was a little underrated.
 
The Nature Boy said:
That Biffle, Edwards, Martin, Kenseth, Busch team was pretty damn stout. Probably the best stable of drivers to ever work together at the same time.
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Yeah, I believe they all made the Chase one year and NASCAR forced them to go down to 4 cars the next year.
 
Acs said:
What baffles me is in a sport with no salary cap, no draft, no revenue sharing, and where money literally buys performance, how a team with massive sponsorship dollars and dominant performance can fall this far. It shouldn't be possible. It would be like Manchester United being relegated, or the Yankees folding. Someone (Jack) must have screwed up on an unbelievable scale. Just sad.
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Money doesn't buy performance...money only buys the things really smart people need to find performance. It doesn't matter how much money you have if you don't have the people who know what to do with it.
 
Allenbaba said:
Money doesn't buy performance...money only buys the things really smart people need to find performance. It doesn't matter how much money you have if you don't have the people who know what to do with it.
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I read where you posted Jack may be the biggest ''a@@hole'' in the garage... can you expand on why? And what kind of pull does he have on drivers for them to be as loyal as what they are to stay so long....
 
Chris Buescher to the second JTG seat confirmed! Wow, looks like Biffle's Cup days are done. That's not what I expected but Buescher is still under contract with RFR and is on "loan".
 
cheesepuffs said:
Chris Buescher to the second JTG seat confirmed! Wow, looks like Biffle's Cup days are done. That's not what I expected but Buescher is still under contract with RFR and is on "loan".
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This is what I find curious.

What are the chances Buescher ever ends up driving for Roush again? At this point, JTG is the better team and is probably a better move for his career going forward.

Technically it's a "loan" since he's still under contract but if I had to bet, I would say he'll be driving for JTG for the foreseeable future. Great move for both parties, IMO.
 
2 Sweet said:
This is what I find curious.

What are the chances Buescher ever ends up driving for Roush again? At this point, JTG is the better team and is probably a better move for his career going forward.

Technically it's a "loan" since he's still under contract but if I had to bet, I would say he'll be driving for JTG for the foreseeable future. Great move for both parties, IMO.
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Yeah, seeing as how Jack is so loyal to drivers longterm I'd say the odds of Chris or Bubba Wallace, or Ryan Reed for that matter ever driving for RFR fulltime in Cup are slim. Unless Lilly steps up with Reed or something, that seems like the only way. I don't see a path for Bubba.
 
SlicedBread22 said:
Im not sure if this has been talked about yet..

http://www.motorsport.com/nascar-cup/news/biffle-parts-ways-with-roush-after-19-years-852602/

Doesnt say whether hes retiring or just going to a different car.. Hopefully something a little less vague is released soon.
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“I want to be competitive in races and run in the top-10,” Biffle said. “That is my goal and my focus. If I am not doing that, then I am probably going to do something different.”

Answer your question? :rolleyes:
 
Seeing him in trucks would be awesome. I actually really miss when the truck series, 10+ years ago, was all the has-beens. Remember when it was Musgrave, Todd Bodine, Bobby Hamilton (rest his soul), Jack Sprague, Johnny Benson, etc? That was AWESOME racing. Just a bunch of old school guys who went hard every single week. That was the best. Too bad that'll never happen again.
 
Acs said:
What baffles me is in a sport with no salary cap, no draft, no revenue sharing, and where money literally buys performance, how a team with massive sponsorship dollars and dominant performance can fall this far. It shouldn't be possible. It would be like Manchester United being relegated, or the Yankees folding. Someone (Jack) must have screwed up on an unbelievable scale. Just sad.
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It wasn't Jack that screwed up. He was building more teams so Nascar pulled the rug and he had to cut back to 4 cars because that's all HMS wanted.
So Jack cashed in and sold 1/2 his team to John. Problem is Jack was in charge of the cars and John ran everything else including sponsors, parts buying and Driver contracts. John went after profits to recoup his purchase money and ran the team downhill because he wouldn't spend the money on speed. No speed, sponsors left and it won't stop going downhill until they close the doors. Jack will probably get into other forms of racing or just run his other businesses and his Yates engine shop.
 
2 Sweet said:
This is what I find curious.

What are the chances Buescher ever ends up driving for Roush again? At this point, JTG is the better team and is probably a better move for his career going forward.

Technically it's a "loan" since he's still under contract but if I had to bet, I would say he'll be driving for JTG for the foreseeable future. Great move for both parties, IMO.
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It is perplexing. What do the principals running RFR think the future holds? Are they just deluded, or is there a viable plan? Do they think they are buying time for now, waiting to find the right partnership or for the landscape to change and they can mount a comeback?

Team Penske said:
It wasn't Jack that screwed up. He was building more teams so Nascar pulled the rug and he had to cut back to 4 cars because that's all HMS wanted.
So Jack cashed in and sold 1/2 his team to John. Problem is Jack was in charge of the cars and John ran everything else including sponsors, parts buying and Driver contracts. John went after profits to recoup his purchase money and ran the team downhill because he wouldn't spend the money on speed. No speed, sponsors left and it won't stop going downhill until they close the doors. Jack will probably get into other forms of racing or just run his other businesses and his Yates engine shop.
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Really, John Henry is / was that hands-on? It sounds right that Henry thought he could slash costs and make more money. I have no special knowledge of any internal workings at Roush, but it seems to me that when Geoff Smith retired and Steve Newmark stepped in as president of all business operations, that's about when things went from shaky to spiraling downhill.

cheesepuffs said:
They started losing sponsors before the performance dropped that much. They couldn't keep Kenseth funded even when he was still winning the Daytona 500, etc.
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Yep, they were having peculiar difficulty filling cars before it became a more difficult market for everyone.
 
cheesepuffs said:
They started losing sponsors before the performance dropped that much. They couldn't keep Kenseth funded even when he was still winning the Daytona 500, etc.
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Remember when Jeff Burton ran an entire season basically unfunded in the early 2000s?

Jack's problems with sponsors started long before John Henry walked in the door. If you ever watch a Red Sox game and look at Fenway Park, you'll see that Mr. Henry has no issue getting sponsors.
 
The Nature Boy said:
Remember when Jeff Burton ran an entire season basically unfunded in the early 2000s?

Jack's problems with sponsors started long before John Henry walked in the door. If you ever watch a Red Sox game and look at Fenway Park, you'll see that Mr. Henry has no issue getting sponsors.
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I don't remember the 99 ever having sponsor issues. Went from Exide to Citgo pretty seemlessly I thought, no? Maybe you're thinking of when Burton was dealing with the Cingular to AT&T transition and they had to pull the vinyl off the car last minute because Nextel made a huge fuss.
 
99cup-bristol.jpg


"Burton ran the 2004 season without a primary sponsor, with races frequently being sponsored by his personal sponsor SKF. Rumors began to arise that Burton would be leaving Roush Racing. After originally denying the rumors, it finally happened in mid-2004 when, just before the Sirius at The Glen, Burton signed a three-year contract with Richard Childress Racing (RCR), leaving Roush after eight and a half years with the team."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeff_Burton

Carl Edwards then took over and drove the rest of the season unsponsored.
 
Marcingak said:
Yeah, I believe they all made the Chase one year and NASCAR forced them to go down to 4 cars the next year.
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That was quite a feat, it was 2005 when 5 of the 10 chasers were Roush drivers. It wasn't the next year that the 4 team limit was implemented (that didn't take effect until 2010), but that rule was largely because of Roush.
 
I dont believe Roush was cheated out of a five car team, or targeted in any sense. When the four car limit was imposed, there was a grandparented provision to allow a 5th team to continue. As long as it remained in operation. It wasnt like a 5th team was forced to park.
But once parked or stopped, a 5th team could not be reinstated.
At least thats my recollection or opinion of the implementation.

And I absolutely agree with that rule. I wish they would implement a 3 car limit with the grandparented provision for the current 4th car.
And in a few years implement a final two car rule using the same methodology.

We have too many superpowers, I would love to see at least 18 two car teams in operation. I hate seeing all significant players having to report to just a few owners. There is a reason they all act and sound more like each other, more than ever, like they were pulled from the same lot.
 
Always liked Biffle but man this Roush team is in serious trouble. I originally thought it was a lack of talent that have prevented Stenhouse and Bayne from being competitive but this season even Biffle ran like garbage. I would hate to say it but the Roush team is really on the same level as Germain Racing or the Levine Family team. How the mighty have fallen.
 
Greg said:
I dont believe Roush was cheated out of a five car team, or targeted in any sense. When the four car limit was imposed, there was a grandparented provision to allow a 5th team to continue. As long as it remained in operation. It wasnt like a 5th team was forced to park.
But once parked or stopped, a 5th team could not be reinstated.
At least thats my recollection or opinion of the implementation.
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Like everything else they do on a case-by-case basis, NASCAR built an ad hoc grandfather clause for Roush with the reasoning that they would allow him to honor his current sponsor and driver commitments at the time the cap was announced. What this meant in practice was that only the same sponsors and five drivers would be allowed to continue past the deadline. If anything changed on those fronts, the grandfather clause would no longer apply and the team would have to drop down to four cars.

It feels pretty meaningless to dissect now. Does someone believe that Roush was on firm financial footing and would be fielding, what, 8 or 9 prosperous teams today without the rule? He couldn't fully fund his cars back during the boom period. He was going to get beat by the Hendricks, Gibbs, and Penskes because they have superior underlying business structures.

Greg said:
We have too many superpowers, I would love to see at least 18 two car teams in operation. I hate seeing all significant players having to report to just a few owners. There is a reason they all act and sound more like each other, more than ever, like they were pulled from the same lot.
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I wish that genie could be put back in the bottle, that would be ideal, but it's gone too far down this road. I don't know how they'd do it and get any serious new owner investment. It's tough enough now that they're looking the other way on further consolidation via alliances and drivers being loaned. They're going to have to bend every rule to continue to put 36 or even 32 viable entries on the track.
 
Roush has been the most mismanaged team in racing over the last 10 years. They can't get good sponsors, they've really missed on some young drivers.
 
kymartin6 said:
I read where you posted Jack may be the biggest ''a@@hole'' in the garage... can you expand on why? And what kind of pull does he have on drivers for them to be as loyal as what they are to stay so long....
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I can't speak as to why people stay, I only know about why people leave. Most say he's just a jerk. Very stubborn and unreasonable. Also, and this might have a lot to do with his reputation...once you leave, you're dead to him. It's odd. He burns every single bridge that has ever left him, for whatever reason. One pretty high profile anecdote to that - Jack was inducted into some track HOF the same time as Kurt and Kenseth. Jack spoke for almost half an hour about how great RFR was - reciting its entire history. NOT ONCE did he even mention the names Kurt Busch or Matt Kenseth. It was super weird, not only because those two are responsible for his only two championships (which in and of itself deserves recognition when you spend that much time on the company's history)...but also because they were sitting right there!!!!! (Of course both of them mentioned, thanked and congratulated Jack). You could actually see the two of them looking at each other and smiling. They know what Jack is like.
 
Acs said:
What baffles me is in a sport with no salary cap, no draft, no revenue sharing, and where money literally buys performance, how a team with massive sponsorship dollars and dominant performance can fall this far. It shouldn't be possible. It would be like Manchester United being relegated, or the Yankees folding. Someone (Jack) must have screwed up on an unbelievable scale. Just sad.
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You bring up some very good points and IDK what the reasons are behind the demise of Roush. I know that Jack has been late to the party on things like shaker rigs and that he did no testing with the CoT prior to its implementation and perhaps there are other situations like this. Maybe he is a micro-manager and his key personnel don't have the necessary decision making abilities, maybe he has surrounded himself with the wrong people entirely or maybe he has focused on just certain parts of his operation and ignored the others to his detriment. Either way when you go from having Jaime McMurray as your weakest link to having Stenny as your #1 guy something has gone really wrong.

The Nature Boy said:
Remember when Jeff Burton ran an entire season basically unfunded in the early 2000s?

Jack's problems with sponsors started long before John Henry walked in the door. If you ever watch a Red Sox game and look at Fenway Park, you'll see that Mr. Henry has no issue getting sponsors.
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That was the year that Jeff departed Roush about halfway through the season and went to RCR and Carl came aboard the 99 and the car had sponsorship upon his arrival.

Allenbaba said:
I can't speak as to why people stay, I only know about why people leave. Most say he's just a jerk. Very stubborn and unreasonable. Also, and this might have a lot to do with his reputation...once you leave, you're dead to him. It's odd. He burns every single bridge that has ever left him, for whatever reason. One pretty high profile anecdote to that - Jack was inducted into some track HOF the same time as Kurt and Kenseth. Jack spoke for almost half an hour about how great RFR was - reciting its entire history. NOT ONCE did he even mention the names Kurt Busch or Matt Kenseth. It was super weird, not only because those two are responsible for his only two championships (which in and of itself deserves recognition when you spend that much time on the company's history)...but also because they were sitting right there!!!!! (Of course both of them mentioned, thanked and congratulated Jack). You could actually see the two of them looking at each other and smiling. They know what Jack is like.
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Do you have an opinion on what Jack might do if the 16 team does not secure sponsorship? Would he just sit on the franchise, do a start and park or maybe try and lease it? Same question for RPM and the 44 car.
 
I dont get it, they have great equipment, great drivers but RFR is,, well horrible. It has to be a personnel problem or like mentioned, an idiot owner/decision maker.. when Carl and Matt left, JGR wasnt at the top of the heap either. When bone head boooosh came back from a broken leg "it was like they flipped a switch a joe jibbs racing" ( NBC quote) "and all the jibbs cars are fast"" yeah right.
 
rocket dawg said:
I dont get it, they have great equipment, great drivers but RFR is,, well horrible. It has to be a personnel problem or like mentioned, an idiot owner/decision maker.. when Carl and Matt left, JGR wasnt at the top of the heap either. When bone head boooosh came back from a broken leg "it was like they flipped a switch a joe jibbs racing" ( NBC quote) "and all the jibbs cars are fast"" yeah right.
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TRD has steadily improved, it is not only demonstrated by JGR but by the timeline of the former MWR team as well. Kenseth also won 7 races (I think) in his 1st JGR season before Edwards arrived.
Edwards last season wins at RFR were more about a good driver and CC winning without having the fastest car. They were already getting behind imo.

I think constant TRD improvements, more teams, and evolving to one of the best driver rosters if not the best, is the story. While RFR has degraded in both areas with a similar timeline.
 
I think he might call it a career, no real competitive seats and I would guess he wants to stay in the Cup series.

Sucks to see his last two years wasted like this, he's still got it, he just needs the proper help.
 
watching him during winter heat I thought he would be a legend. But wins at Kansas, Daytona, and Dover are things to be proud of.
 
Greg said:
I dont believe Roush was cheated out of a five car team, or targeted in any sense. When the four car limit was imposed, there was a grandparented provision to allow a 5th team to continue. As long as it remained in operation. It wasnt like a 5th team was forced to park.
But once parked or stopped, a 5th team could not be reinstated.
At least thats my recollection or opinion of the implementation.

And I absolutely agree with that rule. I wish they would implement a 3 car limit with the grandparented provision for the current 4th car.
And in a few years implement a final two car rule using the same methodology.

We have too many superpowers, I would love to see at least 18 two car teams in operation. I hate seeing all significant players having to report to just a few owners. There is a reason they all act and sound more like each other, more than ever, like they were pulled from the same lot.
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I thought Roush had to purge the 26 team after 2009 due to the 4-car cap? Maybe I'm wrong about that.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
Do you have an opinion on what Jack might do if the 16 team does not secure sponsorship? Would he just sit on the franchise, do a start and park or maybe try and lease it? Same question for RPM and the 44 car.
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Both charters are being casually shopped. Neither team knows what they'll do. It's a very strange silly season.
 
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