Brad Keselowski Racing To Close After 2017 Season

Greg said:
Sustainability :Just a few teams that can win isn't going cut it.
Romantic notions : Who is fighting for something that is drying up. Something that a former Cup champ with tons of determination, and Penske connections cannot sustain.

If people dont give a crap and will not show up, and more importantly the kids or the real future doesn't flip out now, it is just inevitable.
It will just become less and less until it fades away. And that may happen, Nascar doesnt want fo admit to the disasterous choices..
Doing nothing or avoiding serious cost containerment, will probably bring on the day.

And Toyota will eventually quit giving a crap too, if there is no fan base, the crumbs will not satisfy. Win your battle and loose the war, after all they do produce a consumer good and must be market sensitive to survive.

I am not wild about a spec series, I like unique cars. I still wish I could hear the distinct super speedway exhaust of the Morgam McClure cars.
Specs has the generic feel, I am fully aware and have no illusions.

But as much as I like the purity and the ruggedness of manufacturing involvement, it fails when compared to having full quality feilds. With many that are capable of winning.

Without that the brands or skins will not matter.
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This is an excellent post. Very well said....particularly the point about the Morgan McClure cars. Thank you.
 
Revman said:
This is an excellent post. Very well said....particularly the point about the Morgan McClure cars. Thank you.
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Thank you, a fun discussion for me.
On that postive note barring insomnia, I am checking out for the evening. The morning 4am happens all too quickly. .
 
Greg said:
Thank you, a fun discussion for me.
On that postive note barring insomnia, I am checking out for the evening. The morning 4am happens all too quickly. .
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Goodnight man. You taught me something. Appreciate it. :cheers:
 
Cheer up all may be well, watch the last restart and laps of the K&N series at Watkins Glenn composite bodies and spec motors sprinkled thru the field

 
AdoubleU24 said:
In the last 3 years I've been to 3 truck races. Dega, Atlanta, and Daytona. Only one of those (Daytona) did I actually travel specifically to see.

I won't go out of my way to watch them live but if there's a triple or double header weekend that I'm in town for I've tried to do my part and support the series. 3 seems like hardly nothing but I bet it's a lot more than the average fan.
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I have often gone to the truck race and skipped the Cup race. I will go out of my way for a truck race, because in my opinion it is often better than the X race or the Cup race.
 
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Acs said:
I guess someone took a pay cut in their latest contract extension and couldn't foot the $1m a year loss anymore.
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May be onto something. I think the veterans will have to take pay cuts if they want to stay in the top series with the sport right sizing.
 
NASCAR Apologist said:
Is this this week's "NASCAR is dead" thread?

While this is unfortunate in the short-term I would not worry too much. The Truck Series will get an edgy enhancement or two and then all will be well again. Brad will become a Cup Series owner once he retires. And people - smart people - tell me that NASCAR routinely is the biggest weekend sports programming on TV and sponsors and OEMs continue to flock to the sport. I think at last check 237% of Fortune 500 companies were invested in NASCAR.
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When Brad retires there won't be a Cup series.
 
2 Sweet said:
There would still be companion races. They could still race Trucks at the same short tracks Cup races at.

Two of my buddies are casual fans, and had no idea the Trucks were at Bristol last night because NASCAR didn't really promote it and there's no consistency as far as the schedule.
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Agree, series could use more standalone races. Feel like once NASCAR moves to NBC the truck series gets forgot about a bit. NBC isn't going to advertise it and act like it doesn't exist. FS1 doesn't promote it enough either as that's the channel I watch the most valuable t if not for this place I wouldn't have even known they were racing on Wednesday.
 
Have no idea how anyone could think that spec motors would be a good idea for a NASCAR national series. They should be working on new manufacture's not eliminating them totally. It works for K&N because those are entry level series that need as much cost saving as possible.

I think the top 3 NASCAR Series should stay away from them though. If someone can't keep up with the cost they'll get out like Brad. If the trucks go that route and move to a predominantly short track schedule they will be no more relevant than K&N and ARCA with half their races aird live and some not even aired at all.
 
2 Sweet said:
How do you figure?
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Well its common sense I believe. Just look at the series that they would be mimicking with the spec motors. Are any of them a big as NASCAR is? Couple that with running on short tracks away from Cup and the series gets forgot about even more than now.
 
Simple Fan said:
Well its common sense I believe. Just look at the series that they would be mimicking with the spec motors. Are any of them a big as NASCAR is? Couple that with running on short tracks away from Cup and the series gets forgot about even more than now.
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In the beginning the trucks were on short tracks. Without Cup ownership.
That is never going to happen again.
 
Simple Fan said:
Well its common sense I believe. Just look at the series that they would be mimicking with the spec motors. Are any of them a big as NASCAR is? Couple that with running on short tracks away from Cup and the series gets forgot about even more than now.
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Like when every Truck race was on ABC, CBS, ESPN, or ESPN2.

There is a TV contract in place through 2024. FOX/FS1 will be showing Truck races if they are racing on Mars.
 
NASCAR Apologist said:
Like when every Truck race was on ABC, CBS, ESPN, or ESPN2.

There is a TV contract in place through 2024. FOX/FS1 will be showing Truck races if they are racing on Mars.
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Times are different now and they only run on one channel. Yeah they'll be broadcast for this contract but what about the next.
 
I think discussing crate motors and composite bodies is fine but Nascar has a group of talented young men currently in cup with more blue chippers in the pipeline. Cutting costs will become the new mantra in all aspects of Nascar and that is a great idea but what is being done to market all the young talent currently in cup plus in the pipeline? This is a golden opportunity to market the changing of the guard and attempt to drum up some excitement and reinvigorate the current fan base and get newbies to check it out. By all means look at anyway to cut costs but work twice as hard to get former fans and new fans on the fan wagon.
 
BobbyFord said:
It did develop some of today's key Cup drivers. As did dirt tracks all across the country.
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Dirt tracks will still be there for that development. Trucks should be about getting drivers ready for Xfinity and Cup and to do that they need to run with Cup at Cup tracks to do that. Nothing wrong with visiting a short track ever now and again though with a few standalones.
 
Simple Fan said:
Times are different now and they only run on one channel. Yeah they'll be broadcast for this contract but what about the next.
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One thing we have learned with Nascar is contracts are not worth the paper they are printed on and guarantee nothing. I am sure the networks have several out clauses and can trigger them if they desire.
 
Simple Fan said:
Dirt tracks will still be there for that development. Trucks should be about getting drivers ready for Xfinity and Cup and to do that they need to run with Cup at Cup tracks to do that. Nothing wrong with visiting a short track ever now and again though with a few standalones.
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Except many are complacent to remain in the truck series. If the series "should be about getting drivers ready for Xfinity and Cup," then there should be driver time limits. Or, leave it like it is and complain when Cup and Xfin drivers return to the series.
 
Simple Fan said:
Well its common sense I believe. Just look at the series that they would be mimicking with the spec motors. Are any of them a big as NASCAR is? Couple that with running on short tracks away from Cup and the series gets forgot about even more than now.
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Until they actually decide on spec motors, I'm leaving that out of the equation.

So, you're saying that the Trucks will be forgotten if they run standalone events on a Friday or Saturday at a track that doesn't typically have the pleasure of hosting big time NASCAR events? If that's what you mean, that seems like an illogical assumption.

Regardless of where they race, the Truck Series will still be a bigger deal than K&N or any lesser series, and would continue to be billed as such. Adding more short tracks, cutting costs and therefore beefing up the competition would certainly not take the races off of TV. I'm not sure why you think that. Hell, the only reason the Trucks got away from the "grassroots" short track standalones of the 90's is due to the tremendous growth of the sport, and SMI/ISC taking control.
 
Yes, the truck series is a stepping stone development series, but the trucks - and Xfinity too - are also support races to flesh out Cup weekend schedules. I don't have the answers, but I am pretty sure you guys are failing to see the whole picture. Thousands of campers at Cup races... and nothing on track most of the time... no bueno.

K&N East and West, ARCA, P.A.S.S., etc, etc. I doubt that anyone needs yet another series of unknown drivers wheeling low budget cars or trucks with crate motors, generic bodies, and unknown teams on local short tracks with a couple thousand fans... and likely no TV. What you guys are clamoring for the trucks to become, well that already exists. I'm honestly not sure I see the point of Nascar doing what all these other series are already doing.

Revman said:
Yeah, okay..... Choice 2....but leave the freakin' motors out of the equation. I don't know what the hell Chevy is doing, but Pericak at Ford makes all of this noise about development drivers, and then watches one of his teams sink. WTF? That's on Ford. Why the hell should Toyota change its approach? Let's invest less because the other guys don't want to? From the time Roush whined about Toyota spending, you could see this coming....Is it that Toyota spends too much, or Ford and Chevy don't want to spend enough? Toyota forces their hand to support this sport. Not a good look for Chevy and Ford IMO. Step up.
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Revman, as you and I have discussed before, Toyota has introduced a new, more costly business model for what a manufacturer in Nascar does, and how much it spends to do it. Toyota has taken over a range of functions that had always been race team responsibilities, and that has raised the cost of playing. It works OK as long as Ford and Chevy respond in kind. But by raising the ante, it hastens the day that Ford and/or Chevy (and/or Toyota themselves) pull in their horns, tighten up their purse strings, or leave Nascar altogether.

All three manufacturers have been spending money like crazy in Nascar. It is one heck of a party. When it ends, the hangover will be severe.

At this very moment, Ford is the elephant in the room. Last year, Raj Nair and Dave Pericak were balls to the wall in Nascar and other motorsports as well...

> Sportscars in IMSA, sportscars in WEC in Europe, won Le Mans on the 50th anniversary of the landmark 1966 victory. Last year, Ford committed to continue these sportscar programs through 2019 at least.

> Acquired Stewart-Haas for the blue oval brigade.

> Increased the Ford sponsorship for Wood Brothers Racing to make the 21 full time again in Cup.

> Touted their new driver development program for Nascar, signing Chase Briscoe as the first driver and promised more to come. Secured a truck ride at BKR for Briscoe, funded by Ford.

> Then the CEO gets ousted, new outsider CEO comes in, and in the shuffle Raj Nair - a great friend of racing - gets promoted and reassigned.

> Dave Pericak offers assurances that Ford Performance has been reaffirmed by the new management as a basic pillar of the company, and more driver development program young guns are expected. That still could be true..??

> And then this news that BKR will cease racing activities. I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that Brad could not get as much Ford support as he felt he needed to be prudent.

> The truck series is small beer, but how will Ford act regarding Nascar generally? That is the elephant in the room... with the new CEO in charge, and the stock price still in the doldrums. To me, at least in part, this is a derivative of the Toyota moves that raised the cost of a manufacturer competing in Nascar.

2 Sweet said:
Adding more short tracks, cutting costs and therefore beefing up the competition would certainly not take the races off of TV. I'm not sure why you think that.
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Standalone events are much, much more costly to televise than companion events. FS1 does 'em now because they are a relatively minor part of the total Truck Series schedule.
 
The truck series was never intended to be televised or attended at the levels of Busch or Cup series events. Which is what we have. Some still struggle to see it for what it is. Cup drivers bring notoriety to an otherwise nationally mediocre racing series.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Standalone events are much, much more costly to televise than companion events. FS1 does 'em now because they are a relatively minor part of the total Truck Series schedule.
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More expensive for the network? Yes, I could definitely see that, which is probably why they wouldn't want more standalone events. But they televised Trucks at Mesa Marin, Portland, Topeka etc. over 20 years ago so I don't think we would ever be in danger of losing TV coverage regardless.

That being said, I think the biggest hurdle would be the networks and ISC/SMI. That's what controls the sport, and sometimes the competition suffers directly because of it.
 
I'm not so sure it's a good thing a third-tier national auto racing series depends so heavily upon OEM investment. That would seem to be a problem to me. Maybe things need to continue to get worse before they get better, because this series does not seem healthy, as fun as it can be sometimes, and needs a serious re-think or sorts.

2 Sweet said:
The Xfinity and Trucks need to regain their own identity instead of depending on "star power" which has basically transformed them into Cup Lite.
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Agreed. I don't get this idea where homogeneity is a good thing. Busch and Truck used to bring something different to the table. Sorry, but how excited can you get for three races at Las Vegas or Kentucky where a couple of superstars are running all three days and another handful are doing two?

Snappy D said:
What short tracks could the Trucks run at? IRP, Myrtle Beach, South Boston, Milwaukee Mike? I have trouble coming up with more besides those
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The Mile is dead. They could probably run some of the same tracks K&N Pro East and West run, maybe even as companion events. New Smyrna, Memphis, Evergreen, Tucson, etc. Not every race oughta be a short oval but man, there are options to sprinkle in some different venues. Would NASCAR be willing to take a haircut on sanctioning fees though?
 
Snappy D said:
What short tracks could the Trucks run at? IRP, Myrtle Beach, South Boston, Milwaukee Mike? I have trouble coming up with more besides those
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IRP, Las Vegas Bullring, Charlotte Dirt Track, Texas Dirt Track are all viable options IMO.

Both Xfinity and Trucks need more standalones, but once again, the schedule is monopolized by ISC and SMI so until that changes, NASCAR will continue going down the tube.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Yes, the truck series is a stepping stone development series, but the trucks - and Xfinity too - are also support races to flesh out Cup weekend schedules. I don't have the answers, but I am pretty sure you guys are failing to see the whole picture. Thousands of campers at Cup races... and nothing on track most of the time... no bueno.

K&N East and West, ARCA, P.A.S.S., etc, etc. I doubt that anyone needs yet another series of unknown drivers wheeling low budget cars or trucks with crate motors, generic bodies, and unknown teams on local short tracks with a couple thousand fans... and likely no TV. What you guys are clamoring for the trucks to become, well that already exists. I'm honestly not sure I see the point of Nascar doing what all these other series are already doing.
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My personal preference would be for more short tracks. I honestly don't know what prolonged effect a move toward short tracks would have for the Truck Series. I don't believe the available evidence is clear, and it's certainly not as simple and straightforward as Simple Fan suggests. The Eldora Truck race outdraws several other standard venues on the schedule. The highest-rated Truck Series race in the past five years was this year's Martinsville race. Usually Daytona is the top-rated event, this year it was Martinsville.

The Truck Series is not nearly as closely tied to the Cup Series as a support series as is the Xfinity Series. NASCAR's current thinking appears to be that both need more separate identities and less direct Cup influence. I think both series could potentially benefit from increased variety (short tracks and road courses), something that is difficult to provide at the Cup level with the conservatism of that schedule.
 
Wouldn't hurt to bring ARCA to some more companion events and have Trucks at some more standalones. And if NASCAR ever got with the program *GASP*, a dash series with electric cars like Formula E?
 
Greg said:
Probably one of the few ways to save the series. It isnt the Toyota series, it is a development series not the Toyota king maker series.

One that should be more about attracting more new owners, and a diversity of drivers.At this point I could care less the brand. We need more teams with a chance to win every week, like 30 plus solid entries showing up.

There should be more options.
And the crate motor is a real solid for making those things happen.
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Every truck, Xfinity car and cup car is built from the ground up except for a bit of sheet metal that Nascar demands the manufacturers supply. So how is the the Toyota series? I have no idea what special things they do for Kyle, do you? Why is he dominating every track race he runs? I think the main reason is the driver himself. He was just as dominate in someone else truck.
I doubt a crate motor would change anything other than the cost.
 
Team Penske said:
Every truck, Xfinity car and cup car is built from the ground up except for a bit of sheet metal that Nascar demands the manufacturers supply. So how is the the Toyota series? I have no idea what special things they do for Kyle, do you? Why is he dominating every track race he runs? I think the main reason is the driver himself. He was just as dominate in someone else truck.
I doubt a crate motor would change anything other than the cost.
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He wasn't that competitive when his nationwide team ran without gibbs support....i would like to see where he would be in Jennifer jo Cobb equipment.
 
So to recap. Toyota is ruining things in Trucks specifically and Nascar in general because they spend too much dough. BKez likely got his earnings severely re-calibrated in his multi year (2 year?) contract with Penske so he no longer has the resources to spend on the truck series. Some manufacturers may be balking at joining Nascar because Nascar asks for huge activation fees which manufacturers are unwilling to fork over. The trucks may or may not start using crate motors and should race more stand alone events on short tracks. Nascar needs champions in positions of power at the manufacturer or funding could be curtailed or ended.

Conclusions: Toyota likes to win and will increase spending and supply other resources in an attempt to do so. Hmmm.....sounds like the American way. Once the ink was dry on BKez's multi year (2 year?) driving contract with Penske and FoMoCo said no to truck funding his pet project had to go. Manufacturers and sponsors are becoming less willing to spend additional funds promoting a series the sanctioning body should be marketing to begin with. Other than ardent Kyle Busch fans most people pay no heed to the truck series so it doesn't matter if they use crate motors or race on the moon as no one is paying attention. It is a tree falling in forest thing. It sounds like a new business model needs to be established in order for Nascar racing to remain viable and not contingent on the whims of other.
 
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