Brad Keselowski Racing To Close After 2017 Season

Team Penske said:
Every truck, Xfinity car and cup car is built from the ground up except for a bit of sheet metal that Nascar demands the manufacturers supply. So how is the the Toyota series? I have no idea what special things they do for Kyle, do you? Why is he dominating every track race he runs? I think the main reason is the driver himself. He was just as dominate in someone else truck.
I doubt a crate motor would change anything other than the cost.
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What @Fordracing7 said.

But, Kyle has a lot of talant and a crate motor will not keep him from winning. This isnt just the who, it is the what to what is wrong that needs fixing.
I am not lobbying for crate motors either.
But they do need to change something to bring in and keep more owners with quality teams.
 
Simple Fan said:
See now I enjoy Cup drivers in the lower Series and would like to see more run trucks besides Kyle. I also enjoy the standalone races although they don't have much star power in them they can still put on a good show. I think there is a middle ground they need to find on Cup drivers in lower Series and these current restrictions are not it.
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I think your problem is your attracted to stars more th
Fordracing7 said:
He wasn't that competitive when his nationwide team ran without gibbs support....i would like to see where he would be in Jennifer jo Cobb equipment.
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We are discussing trucks not Xfinity. Kyle did not have the support or personnel funds to run Xfinity and only his ego would let him think he and his brother would make up the difference.
JRM could not sustain the losses they occurred in Xfinity thus the partnership with Rick. If Rick pulls out ( a possibility after next year) JRM could also close up shop. Only the teams with cup affiliation can afford to race Xfinity.
 
Greg said:
What @Fordracing7 said.

But, Kyle has a lot of talant and a crate motor will not keep him from winning. This isnt just the who, it is the what to what is wrong that needs fixing.
I am not lobbying for crate motors either.
But they do need to change something to bring in and keep more owners with quality teams.
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No argument here. Only teams that can run competitively are cup affiliated.
 
Just my two cents to sum it all up for the truck series

-No cup affiliated teams
-No cup drivers
- smaller track schedule
- shorter schedule
- more localized schedule
- spec engines
- inventory limits
- one day race weekends only

I think these things would lower cost tremendously amongst other cutbacks.
 
Team Penske said:
If Rick pulls out ( a possibility after next year) JRM could also close up shop. Only the teams with cup affiliation can afford to race Xfinity.
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What makes you think Hendrick might pull his support of JRM? Keep in mind JRM doesn't do any "charity" deals. The cars they are running are on track because they are FUNDED. The 1, 5, and 7 are on track ONLY because the drivers brought money. My guess is as long as that funding holds, they would be OK without Cup affiliation. Maybe not as successful on the track, but OK financially.
 
Formerjackman said:
What makes you think Hendrick might pull his support of JRM? Keep in mind JRM doesn't do any "charity" deals. The cars they are running are on track because they are FUNDED. The 1, 5, and 7 are on track ONLY because the drivers brought money. My guess is as long as that funding holds, they would be OK without Cup affiliation. Maybe not as successful on the track, but OK financially.
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Much of the engineering they have is a product of HMS. If that goes away they are not competitive and soon the sponsors leave as well. Vicious circle.
 
aunty dive said:
Well ... the first seven championships were won by trucks from Cup teams.
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Yes, but the humble beginnings were on west coast short tracks.
Cup owners saw it as a developmental feeder series for Busch and Cup.
Trucks will never go to shorter tracks, shorter schedule, no Cup teams, etc., as suggested above ^
 
BobbyFord said:
Yes, but the humble beginnings were on west coast short tracks.
Cup owners saw it as a developmental feeder series for Busch and Cup.
Trucks will never go to shorter tracks, shorter schedule, no Cup teams, etc., as suggested above ^
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Agree. I helped a friend at some races out here. Top fives couldn't pay the bills for him and he wasn't travelling across the country to get to the races.

Evergreen Speedway can't pay enough unless they have a TV revenue stream.
 
Team Penske said:
Much of the engineering they have is a product of HMS. If that goes away they are not competitive and soon the sponsors leave as well. Vicious circle.
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Honestly, that engineering support hasn't been all that spectacular for either of them lately, and I have ALWAYS thought that JRM slightly underperformed for what it is, certainly by JGR standards. That being said, I don't see Rick going anywhere.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Kinda "duh", but anyways...

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I guess I understand that it could be a business thats expensive to operate and I could understand maybe the first couple years not understanding exactly where your budgets are at but after you've been doing it for 5 or 6 years and you know your income how do you continuously exceed your budget....
 
Fordracing7 said:
I guess I understand that it could be a business thats expensive to operate and I could understand maybe the first couple years not understanding exactly where your budgets are at but after you've been doing it for 5 or 6 years and you know your income how do you continuously exceed your budget....
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It is made up in your driving contract would be one way to offset the loss. Tax wise BKR it is a very complicated tax write off. The longer the company is in business the harder it is to depreciate expensive equipment. The truck series has become a corporate controlled series. Terribly hard to compete with the large corporations. In another thread I expressed concern about the "wink" alliances in the cup and Xfinity series. Without defined duties as to what defines an alliance team, owners/corporations can pretty much do as they please. A corporation decided it either didn't want BKR racing their Fords, or Ford decided to support another racing team, or they took their money else where.
 
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Fordracing7 said:
I guess I understand that it could be a business thats expensive to operate and I could understand maybe the first couple years not understanding exactly where your budgets are at but after you've been doing it for 5 or 6 years and you know your income how do you continuously exceed your budget....
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Ha. You sound like my wife "back in the day." :oops: It is an idealistic notion that a racer can spend down to the budget, while trying to compete. Easier planned than accomplished.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Ha. You sound like my wife "back in the day." :oops: It is an idealistic notion that a racer can spend down to the budget, while trying to compete. Easier planned than accomplished.
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Haha she does the money doesn't she? Lol jk. Yeah easier planned than accomplished I'm sure
 
StandOnIt said:
article pretty much covers what we have been talking about. Another spec engine test scheduled for Tuesday

NASCAR Truck Series at crossroad with teams shutting down, impending spec engine program
NASCAR is aggressively pursuing ways to keep trucks on the track each week

http://autoweek.com/article/nascar/...s-shutting-down-impending-spec-engine-program
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Yup, inclusive of Toyota's stance. One year, down 30 hp to the crate, and Toyota is out. KBM will not be far behind. #EpicFail
 
You know if spec engines come to trucks it will be just a matter of time before they invade X and Cup as that is how those things normally work. I can hear the press release now from Nascar:

"Due to the overwhelming success of using a specially approved Nascar engine truck teams have been able to significantly reduce costs and in several cases improve. The fans have been asking for this so we are pleased to announce that beginning with the 2020 race year the Nascar Enron-Blockbuster Cup series will make a specific race engine available to all teams for each race. Testing has begun with the engine and the reviews are positive and initial dyno testing reveals a 25 horsepower advantage over manufacturer specific engines."
 
StandOnIt said:
article pretty much covers what we have been talking about. Another spec engine test scheduled for Tuesday

NASCAR Truck Series at crossroad with teams shutting down, impending spec engine program
NASCAR is aggressively pursuing ways to keep trucks on the track each week

http://autoweek.com/article/nascar/...s-shutting-down-impending-spec-engine-program
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SOI, that is a very good article. Like many others here on this forum, I like to envision the manufacturers battling in the truck series to promote sales of their pickup trucks. But really that is not how it works. They do that via the Cup series. Certainly for Chevy and Ford, they use the Cup series to enhance their image and establish a connection with customers. I don't prefer that, but I get it.

Nascar's stance on spec motors reminds me of the situation facing MotoGP half a dozen years ago. MotoGP technical regulations were dominated by the manufacturers, specifically Honda, who routinely threatened to leave the sport if they didn't get their way. After years of this Mexican Standoff, Dorna (the Nascar equivalent) boldly took back control of the regulations and laid down the law. And it worked! Today there are six manufacturers, up from three, and the sport is thriving like never before. I don't know if Nascar can do the same, or if they should, but the parallels are striking.
 
My stand is that there are pro's and con's to both. KBM and Crafton each from 4 truck teams aren't excited about it. Venturini who is a 4 car Toyota ARCA team weighs in about saving 125,000 a year, but he back pedals a bit after that statement and he said it was closer to $70,000. Not a great guy to ask IMO, knowing Toyota's views about spec motors, but 33 out of 40 cars running one at the start of the season tells the story. There are plenty of Toyota's to go around in that series. Either way IMO do nothing and it is the Toyota IROC series with 7 to 9 heavy sponsored trucks from Thorsport and KBM, or make some changes to level the playing field and reduce expenses and gamble on having more and better competition. Toyota is doing what they have done thru out their racing history. It surly wasn't their intention for it to turn out this way I believe. But on the other hand I don't think it is a good idea for Nascar to let a manufacturer blackmail them either. Years ago Chrysler boycotted Nascar and pulled all their cars, Petty ended up driving a Ford, Chrysler came back in to the series after a couple years.
 
Formerjackman said:
Honestly, that engineering support hasn't been all that spectacular for either of them lately, and I have ALWAYS thought that JRM slightly underperformed for what it is, certainly by JGR standards. That being said, I don't see Rick going anywhere.
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Agreed, but JRM isn't having Jimmie or Chase in their cars and is resorting to ride buyers (Sadler, Allgaier, Annett)
 
I think the Truck series would be a good place to try out PRODUCTION BASED engines like those used in IMSA. A few years ago in the Daytona Prototype class, GM, Ford, Lexus and Porsche all had modified current production computer controlled fuel injected V-8 engines running against each other with fairly similar results. To make the pot sweeter, ECR built the GM LS engines and Roush Yates built the Ford engines, so it wouldn't be that big of switch for many on the supplier side. These engines are far more relevant to the manufacturers and if the deal was done right, would be cheaper too. Perhaps such a move would help rekindle some interest from GM, ford and Toyota. Or, how about switching to mid-sized trucks, (I think Ford is getting one soon) and trying to draw in manufacturers not currently involved like Nissan?
 
AuzGrams said:
Agreed, but JRM isn't having Jimmie or Chase in their cars and is resorting to ride buyers (Sadler, Allgaier, Annett)
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It pains me to say it, but if you put equal drivers heads up and in JGR VS JRM cars, my guess is the JGR driver wins 75% of the time. take full time Cup or Xfinity drivers, either way you want to do it.
 
Formerjackman said:
It pains me to say it, but if you put equal drivers heads up and in JGR VS JRM cars, my guess is the JGR driver wins 75% of the time. take full time Cup or Xfinity drivers, either way you want to do it.
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Considering JGR is beating Hendrick in Cup I have no doubts you're right.
 
TexasRaceLady said:
I remember when the trucks first started racing --- almost exclusively on short tracks in a lot of places that didn't have big-time racing.
And the stands were PACKED.
The action was incredible. I was so disappointed when the short tracks were dropped.
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They came to here to Monroe, tiny little venue, 5/8 oval. There were people in the stands, but you could walk up and by a ticket same day. Saw Kenny Schrader there, although I can't say for sure that was a Craftsman Truck race, Might have been a Winston West or something. It was cool though. They ran up here for a few seasons. Never missed it. Started to stay home one time and watch it on TV when my daughter was about 18 months to 2 years. Wound up watching the first few laps on TV and thought to myself what the hell am I doing, drove the 9 miles to the fairgrounds bought two tickets and got seats in the front row. Which was OK at Monroe, but my kid kept running up to the catch fence and we wound up getting asked to leave. It's hard to reason with a two year old under normal circumstances, but it just wasn't happening at a race. Good stuff!
 
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