BUBBA WALLACE FINISHED SECOND!

mathematician said:
So basically 90% of the races :D :D :D
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:rolleyes:

If RPM lands big money and he underperforms, I can see where I could start doubting him. Nothing has materialized uet, so I'm staying home with my opinion. Also, your colors are starting to show more and more every post.:)
Ventisca said:
Bubba and Blaney should star in a remake of Step Brothers -- include Bubba's drum set...

I feel like they're being forced on NASCAR fans.

Meanwhile Chase in a Chevy running all those 2d Place finishes and then starting his Cup winning on road course, super speedways, mile, mile-and-a-half...
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Lack of personalities, Blaney, Elliott, Jones, Wallace, and other the other young guys are different. Also, they are relatable to me. Yes, they are being forced, but its to attract more of the younger guys and gals like me (18-35) they want to attract... Honestly, I think its cool to have the new generation marketed like they are.

Not to mention they they are all talented and great at what they do. Blaney especially, he's due for a win. Most laps led and has not won a race yet this season.
 
If Wallace were driving for JGR, Penske, or SHR with similar results as he has currently, I could see a justification for the criticism. As it is, he's a struggling and raw young driver with a rapidly deteriorating team, which is not a good recipe. I'm trying to think of a sensible motivation for the animus and fixation on him other than the obvious differentiator.

I've come to the conclusion there isn't one.
 
Ventisca said:
Bubba and Blaney should star in a remake of Step Brothers -- include Bubba's drum set...

I feel like they're being forced on NASCAR fans.

Meanwhile Chase in a Chevy running all those 2d Place finishes and then starting his Cup winning on road course, super speedways, mile, mile-and-a-half...
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All 3 of them are assets to the game and to NASCAR.

The fanboy response is interesting.
 
gnomesayin said:
If Wallace were driving for JGR, Penske, or SHR with similar results as he has currently, I could see a justification for the criticism. As it is, he's a struggling and raw young driver with a rapidly deteriorating team, which is not a good recipe. I'm trying to think of a sensible motivation for the animus and fixation on him other than the obvious differentiator.

I've come to the conclusion there isn't one.
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Yeah, me too... "there isn't one."

Well said, Mr. Gnome.
 
I'm not a fan of Chase -- just have a lot of respect for what he has been able to do thus far compared to his peers.

As for Blaney, as a Ford and Penske fan -- I tend to be more forgiving, but I just don't see the greatness others seem to; at least not yet.

I don't see Bubba getting a much better ride unless he can take care of his equipment and chart progress.
 
Ventisca said:
Bubba and Blaney should star in a remake of Step Brothers -- include Bubba's drum set...

I feel like they're being forced on NASCAR fans.

Meanwhile Chase in a Chevy running all those 2d Place finishes and then starting his Cup winning on road course, super speedways, mile, mile-and-a-half...
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NASCAR likes the " young guns " angle, I consider the 43 to be a back marker :idunno:
 
gnomesayin said:
If Wallace were driving for JGR, Penske, or SHR with similar results as he has currently, I could see a justification for the criticism. As it is, he's a struggling and raw young driver with a rapidly deteriorating team, which is not a good recipe. I'm trying to think of a sensible motivation for the animus and fixation on him other than the obvious differentiator.

I've come to the conclusion there isn't one.
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He gets a lot of support and a lot of criticism for reasons other than performance. Any criticism is looked upon with a jaundiced eye. Some of that criticism is justified, I feel. There are 11 pages of mostly supportive comments about a guy with few results. It's toned down a bit now but when Bubba got the 43 ride the fanboys immediately turned me off. You had to be a fan from day 1 or else. I don't enjoy that type of with us or against us stuff.
 
ReturnTrip said:
Does this guy wreck a lot or is it just my imagination.
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Motorsports Analytics compiles actual crash data, which is useful in answering your question. They define a crash as a wreck or a spin that results in loss of track position.

In 2018, Bubba's crash frequency was lower than... Truex, Larson, Jones, Blaney, Almirola, Johnson, Newman, Stenhouse (highest crash rate), Suarez, McMurray, Byron, Bowman, Ragan, and Bayne.

Just nine races compiled so far for 2019, so the data is much less meaningful, but Bubba's crash frequency is lower than or tied with... Keselowski, Truex, C. Elliott, Bowyer, Jones, Almirola, Larson (highest rate so far), Stenhouse, T. Dillon, Bowman, Byron, Preece, McDowell, Hemric, and Tift.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Motorsports Analytics compiles actual crash data, which is useful in answering your question. They define a crash as a wreck or a spin that results in loss of track position.

In 2018, Bubba's crash frequency was lower than... Truex, Larson, Jones, Blaney, Almirola, Johnson, Newman, Stenhouse (highest crash rate), Suarez, McMurray, Byron, Bowman, Ragan, and Bayne.

Just nine races compiled so far for 2019, so the data is much less meaningful, but Bubba's crash frequency is lower than or tied with... Keselowski, Truex, C. Elliott, Bowyer, Jones, Almirola, Larson (highest rate so far), Stenhouse, T. Dillon, Bowman, Byron, Preece, McDowell, Hemric, and Tift.
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Doesn't get a lot of air time unless he's in a crash it seems. I knew it was just my imagination.
 
gnomesayin said:
If Wallace were driving for JGR, Penske, or SHR with similar results as he has currently, I could see a justification for the criticism. As it is, he's a struggling and raw young driver with a rapidly deteriorating team, which is not a good recipe. I'm trying to think of a sensible motivation for the animus and fixation on him other than the obvious differentiator.

I've come to the conclusion there isn't one.
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I didn't think he was that good before Cup either. He was strongly outpaced by Chris Buecher at RFR - who only wound up with a JTG-Daugherty Cup ride. Over two years as teammates he also failed to distinguish himself from Ryan Reed, who is now out of the game entirely (one national series event this year, in Truck at Las Vegas). He was about on par with Elliott Sadler as well, who became an Xfinity lifer after a lackluster Cup career - and even then, he never managed to seal the deal at the Xfinity level. He didn't do anything with his handful of Xfinity starts with JGR in cars that should be pretty much be plug-and-play. So basically, we are left with the impression that he's good due to his stint in the best equipment the Truck Series has to offer, and even then his part-time teammate (Erik Jones) managed to win just one less race in ten fewer starts (3 wins in 12 starts to 4 wins in 22 starts).

More than anything, I find the constant excuseapalooza and suggestion that he deserves a better ride somewhat irritating given that a lot of guys haven't even been given the opportunities he has, or in the case of Buescher have done more in the same stuff only to be given a marginally better piece at the next level. I can't speak for others on what their motivations are, but that's my take.
 
ReturnTrip said:
He gets a lot of support and a lot of criticism for reasons other than performance. Any criticism is looked upon with a jaundiced eye. Some of that criticism is justified, I feel. There are 11 pages of mostly supportive comments about a guy with few results. It's toned down a bit now but when Bubba got the 43 ride the fanboys immediately turned me off. You had to be a fan from day 1 or else. I don't enjoy that type of with us or against us stuff.
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Unlike what you are describing, I would find it easy to be indifferent about Wallace's and RPM's results, and have felt zero pressure to support them.

There is always a place for fair-minded criticism and assessment. I've found some of the more cautious assessments of Bubba's potential to be persuasive.

My response to the Almirola comparisons, while acknowledging that RPM was a more competitive organization when he drove the car, is to say that yes, Aric Almirola is currently (and possibly permanently) a better Cup driver than Bubba Wallace. Almirola was a blue chip prospect who somehow fell through the JGR / Toyota cracks and had a long path back to a top tier ride. Wallace has never been any more than a second tier prospect.

I will agree to some extent that he has attracted attention for reasons other than performance. On that basis, you either like the kid and hope he'll succeed, or you don't and you're rooting for him to fail. I'm in the former camp.
 
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Ventisca said:
As for Blaney, as a Ford and Penske fan -- I tend to be more forgiving, but I just don't see the greatness others seem to; at least not yet.
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Who said anything about greatness? Blaney's clearly talented, and likeable. Nobody's giving him the crown yet. You just seem to dislike him because if his interest in Star Wars that you feel is "childish" for whatever reason. Who cares?

Hell, he won a race with the Wood Brothers. How many other drivers have done that in the past 25 years? Not many.
 
FLRacingFan said:
More than anything, I find the constant excuseapalooza and suggestion that he deserves a better ride somewhat irritating given that a lot of guys haven't even been given the opportunities he has, or in the case of Buescher have done more in the same stuff only to be given a marginally better piece at the next level. I can't speak for others on what their motivations are, but that's my take.
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This is a fair point.

Also, I think Buescher is the most underrated driver in NASCAR.
 
FLRacingFan said:
I didn't think he was that good before Cup either. He was strongly outpaced by Chris Buecher at RFR - who only wound up with a JTG-Daugherty Cup ride. Over two years as teammates he also failed to distinguish himself from Ryan Reed, who is now out of the game entirely (one national series event this year, in Truck at Las Vegas). He was about on par with Elliott Sadler as well, who became an Xfinity lifer after a lackluster Cup career - and even then, he never managed to seal the deal at the Xfinity level. He didn't do anything with his handful of Xfinity starts with JGR in cars that should be pretty much be plug-and-play. So basically, we are left with the impression that he's good due to his stint in the best equipment the Truck Series has to offer, and even then his part-time teammate (Erik Jones) managed to win just one less race in ten fewer starts (3 wins in 12 starts to 4 wins in 22 starts).

More than anything, I find the constant excuseapalooza and suggestion that he deserves a better ride somewhat irritating given that a lot of guys haven't even been given the opportunities he has, or in the case of Buescher have done more in the same stuff only to be given a marginally better piece at the next level. I can't speak for others on what their motivations are, but that's my take.
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To wit, that's a reasonable critical analysis of Bubba's abilities, and I don't fundamentally disagree with it. I think he might have some unrealized potential that isn't captured in those comparisons, but it's hard to say.

I don't believe he deserves to jump into a better seat. I think he deserves more stability in the seat he has to get an accurate gauge of what he's capable of. My impression is that he's a feel, instinctual driver more than a technical, precision one. Those guys need to get into a groove, and it's hard to with constant unrest and subpar equipment.

Personally I wish it were a racing world in which NASCAR revamped either Xfinity or Trucks as a pure Saturday night short track series and showcased drivers like Bubba there.
 
Im sure Jeffery Earnhardt was looked upon as a driver who raced off of his name and never did a thing, EXCEPT when he got in JGR equipment he produced exponeniatly better, a 6th and an 8th place finish and running in the top five before a crash at talladega. He never came close to that in the under funded rides he was in.Bubba is no different. He did win 6 truck races right? He also has 6 top 5's and 35 top 10s in that series. Point, he can drive. He needs the equipment to get him there. I know I watched him drive to the front at Bristol, not on tires, not because of a caution, he flat drove it to the front.
 
Ventisca said:
Bubba and Blaney should star in a remake of Step Brothers -- include Bubba's drum set...

I feel like they're being forced on NASCAR fans.

Meanwhile Chase in a Chevy running all those 2d Place finishes and then starting his Cup winning on road course, super speedways, mile, mile-and-a-half...
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Of course Chase is not promoted by NASCAR. Heck he even said he doesn't get invited to cool events like Bubba and Blaney's Hawaii vacation this year.
 
Kiante said:
:rolleyes:

If RPM lands big money and he underperforms, I can see where I could start doubting him. Nothing has materialized uet, so I'm staying home with my opinion. Also, your colors are starting to show more and more every post.:).
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I like Bubba, but you have to admit that a large part of the reason that he has the ride is because they thought he'd bring in more money with his popularity and marketability. Up to this point that hasn't materialized.

IMO at this point he just needs to run where his equipment allows him to instead of tearing up stuff trying to run top 10 lap times with 25th place equipment.
 
FLRacingFan said:
I didn't think he was that good before Cup either. He was strongly outpaced by Chris Buecher at RFR - who only wound up with a JTG-Daugherty Cup ride. Over two years as teammates he also failed to distinguish himself from Ryan Reed, who is now out of the game entirely (one national series event this year, in Truck at Las Vegas). He was about on par with Elliott Sadler as well, who became an Xfinity lifer after a lackluster Cup career - and even then, he never managed to seal the deal at the Xfinity level. He didn't do anything with his handful of Xfinity starts with JGR in cars that should be pretty much be plug-and-play. So basically, we are left with the impression that he's good due to his stint in the best equipment the Truck Series has to offer, and even then his part-time teammate (Erik Jones) managed to win just one less race in ten fewer starts (3 wins in 12 starts to 4 wins in 22 starts).

More than anything, I find the constant excuseapalooza and suggestion that he deserves a better ride somewhat irritating given that a lot of guys haven't even been given the opportunities he has, or in the case of Buescher have done more in the same stuff only to be given a marginally better piece at the next level. I can't speak for others on what their motivations are, but that's my take.
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He's much better than Reed, I know Reed won on plate tracks, but intermediates, road courses, and short tracks Bubba was better. Especially, the run Bubba was going on in 2017 it seemed like he was putting it altogether IMO. Until the 6 team shut down he was looking like the driver that was expected IMO. That's all you heard of it. 2016 was the year I was on the fence about him, he was mediocre down the stretch IMO. 2017 he seemed more focused and well rounded.

I'm going to be real, the whole "Us vs. Them" issue is more real than what you think. After, Bubba crashed at Dega if you saw the amount of slander afterwards and some quickly deleted tweets with THAT word in there. Then you see why he has the mentality and outside of the interview he did with Kenny Wallace and the pinned tweet on his Twitter...

This "excuseapaloosa" as you called it is everything that is going on with the team is real. This is one of the few times I disagree with your take, but I understand your viewpoint. Bubba has had good rides and I've mentioned before if Bubba did win a race or two in Xfinity the pulse would be different IMO. I've mentioned it countless times before he's had opprotunties to win races in Xfinity, so trust me I understand.

This is the last thing I'm going to say, I say Bubba lacks patience and always has. If, he would have taken his time and keeps his car clean at Dega he had a good piece on Sunday. Hell, Harvick has told Bubba about being patient years ago when he was with Roush. That's what make it so ironic the situation at Dega. He's got to keep his nose clean for RPM's sake.
 
Kiante said:
He's much better than Reed, I know Reed won on plate tracks, but intermediates, road courses, and short tracks Bubba was better. Especially, the run Bubba was going on in 2017 it seemed like he was putting it altogether IMO. Until the 6 team shut down he was looking like the driver that was expected IMO. That's all you heard of it. 2016 was the year I was on the fence about him, he was mediocre down the stretch IMO. 2017 he seemed more focused and well rounded.

I'm going to be real, the whole "Us vs. Them" issue is more real than what you think. After, Bubba crashed at Dega if you saw the amount of slander afterwards and some quickly deleted tweets with THAT word in there. Then you see why he has the mentality and outside of the interview he did with Kenny Wallace and the pinned tweet on his Twitter...

This "excuseapaloosa" as you called it is everything that is going on with the team is real. This is one of the few times I disagree with your take, but I understand your viewpoint. Bubba has had good rides and I've mentioned before if Bubba did win a race or two in Xfinity the pulse would be different IMO. I've mentioned it countless times before he's had opprotunties to win races in Xfinity, so trust me I understand.

This is the last thing I'm going to say, I say Bubba lacks patience and always has. If, he would have taken his time and keeps his car clean at Dega he had a good piece on Sunday. Hell, Harvick has told Bubba about being patient years ago when he was with Roush. That's what make it so ironic the situation at Dega. He's got to keep his nose clean for RPM's sake.
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I am sure he's better than Reed, but he needed to do better than beat him 60% of the time while they were together to get a better shot. 2017 was looking better but most of the true top prospects recently like Bell, Elliott, and Jones got it done right out of the gate and, for better or for worse, teams either don't want or can't afford to run a prospect for three full-time seasons at one lower level. It's just the nature of the beast now.

And believe me, I saw some of those tweets on Sunday as well. Not to sound like a narc but I had to report one guy just because he was being so asinine.
 
wi_racefan said:
IMO at this point he just needs to run where his equipment allows him to instead of tearing up stuff trying to run top 10 lap times with 25th place equipment.
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I agree, but it's a vicious cycle when a young driver is being judged harshly based off results in 25th place equipment.
 
Wallace has to work under more pressure than the average driver, He did really well in the trucks driving good equipment for KBM, had a crucial win taken away by Buescher in the Xfinity series. Good hard racing, but teammate Buescher went for the jugular. Petty or not, I think Wallace is a good shoe, young, over aggressive, and not afraid to go fast. On top of all that, he has to deal with all of the racial B.S. Any grass roots driver who makes it to the cup series is saying something IMO.
 
If the financial situation is as bad as it appears over at RPM I admire their loyalty to Bubba. At this point you think some of the ride buyers would be calling and trying to buy the seat for some of the unsponsored or under sponsored races
 
wi_racefan said:
If the financial situation is as bad as it appears over at RPM I admire their loyalty to Bubba. At this point you think some of the ride buyers would be calling and trying to buy the seat for some of the unsponsored or under sponsored races
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probably why they have contracts ya think?
 
StandOnIt said:
probably why they have contracts ya think?
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Not sure a contract means much these days and from what you hear a lot is most of them are sponsorship dependent. Didn't Danica have another year left and they got out of it because they couldn't find money to put her in the car? MTJ was released from MWR because NAPA pulled out.
 
wi_racefan said:
I like Bubba, but you have to admit that a large part of the reason that he has the ride is because they thought he'd bring in more money with his popularity and marketability. Up to this point that hasn't materialized.

IMO at this point he just needs to run where his equipment allows him to instead of tearing up stuff trying to run top 10 lap times with 25th place equipment.
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One wreck at Talladega, now hes over driving the car. smh
 
Spotter22 said:
One wreck at Talladega, now hes over driving the car. smh
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Actually the first thing that comes to mind for me was his CC saying they needed to take care of equipment at the Roval because they were short on inventory and he proceeded to tear up a couple cars by driving over his head.
 
wi_racefan said:
Actually the first thing that comes to mind for me was his CC saying they needed to take care of equipment at the Roval because they were short on inventory and he proceeded to tear up a couple cars by driving over his head.
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It was the roval, you want to list the others who tore their stuff up? Lemme help ya


1 25 2 Brad Keselowski Ford 103 Accident 29 6
32 14 18 Kyle Busch Toyota 103 Accident 0 9
33 22 21 Paul Menard Ford 103 Accident 2 4
34 21 24 William Byron Chevrolet 103 Accident 0 3
35 16 6 Trevor Bayne Ford 103 Accident 0 2
36 34 43 Bubba Wallace Chevrolet 103 Accident 0 1
37 23 17 Ricky Stenhouse Jr. Ford 100 Accident 2 1
38 40 66 Timmy Hill Toyota 70 Axle 0 0
39 24 3 Austin Dillon Chevrolet 64 Accident 0 5
40 39 51 Stanton Barrett Ford 11 Accident 0 1
 
the fanboys can say whatever they want.

Facts tell a different story. Based on his results, not just this year, but ever since he joined NASCAR Bubba Wallace doesn't deserve to be where he is. There are a lot of drivers, like the one I listed, who have much more talent than him but who will never get a chance...and that sucks

The only reason why Wallace got where he got is because of his "personality"...and that sucks even more. This sport, any sport actually, shouldn't be like this.
 
gnomesayin said:
He thinks Bell, Gragson, Custer, etc. are dying to drive for a team that is struggling to stay open. Lost his last remains of credibility there.
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You totally missed my point.
As requested <_< I wrote a list of drivers who have clearly more talent than Wallace and who should have gotten that job BEFORE Wallace did.
Based on what they do on track and not on "marketability" or whatever 10-dollar word they use now.

If you seriously think that those drivers are less talented than Bubba "the next big thing" Wallace, you are the ones who have lost credibility. Or maybe you are just not paying attention.

Anyway I am done here. Like somebody wrote facts and logic have no space here.
 
mathematician said:
You totally missed my point.
As requested <_< I wrote a list of drivers who have clearly more talent than Wallace and who should have gotten that job BEFORE Wallace did.
Based on what they do on track and not on "marketability" or whatever 10-dollar word they use now.

If you seriously think that those drivers are less talented than Bubba "the next big thing" Wallace, you are the ones who have lost credibility. Or maybe you are just not paying attention.

Anyway I am done here. Like somebody wrote facts and logic have no space here.
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You seem bothered by the fact Bubba has that ride. My guess is he's done as well with that ride as anyone you've named on your list. Put Logano in that equipment, he may average a few spots better in finishes, but he's not going to win in that car. Why RPM chose Bubba is no concern of mine. He's one of forty to start on Sundays, so I can wish for him the best and safety, or I can have a disdain for him because in my view he's "undeserving". The pathway to Cup has changed. Used to be the biggest asset was pure talent. Those days are gone. Why did Danica have a top tier ride? She brought GoDaddy. Why does Bubba have his ride? You reckon someone saw some potential? That's my guess. Will he be there next year? Who knows? I'll say this, the media isn't fawning over his every word and treating him extra special because of his skin color. He's one of forty giving it his all to succeed . So, I'd like to see the kid do well, and all the rest of them that work their tails off. There's only 40 spots available, less than half of those can win. So, it ain't all wine and roses for Bubba.
 
Shouldn't the title of Bubba's thread change with the results?
 
mathematician said:
You totally missed my point.
As requested <_< I wrote a list of drivers who have clearly more talent than Wallace and who should have gotten that job BEFORE Wallace did.
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No, what was requested was a list of superior drivers who would want that ride, and you display no understanding of that crucial context. If you grasped that and believe those drivers are categorically better than Wallace (a couple are, a few others are possibly but not definitively, several others are not by any empirical measure), you would not be wishing the current RPM situation on them.

There are recent posts casting doubt on Wallace's abilities that are reasonable and don't exhibit the irrational dislike that you do.
 
mathematician said:
the fanboys can say whatever they want.

Facts tell a different story. Based on his results, not just this year, but ever since he joined NASCAR Bubba Wallace doesn't deserve to be where he is. There are a lot of drivers, like the one I listed, who have much more talent than him but who will never get a chance...and that sucks

The only reason why Wallace got where he got is because of his "personality"...and that sucks even more. This sport, any sport actually, shouldn't be like this.
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He desevrves to be where he is, he was hired by RPM and has a contract. Your opinion on the matter really means nothing to them.
 
So basically the Bubba thread has replaced the AIDS that was the Danica thread. Awesome.

When will the lesson be learned? You really can’t evaluate most of the mid pack due to huge equipment disparity at the moment. Everyone thought Truex and Almirola were wheelholders, until they got their shots in a top a ride. Pretty sure that worked out for them.

Bubba is no different. I’m sure he’d run much better if his cars were faster and the team wasn’t operating on a day to day basis. While I like Bubba, but I don’t think he’s some blue chip elite prospect. I do however think he’s capable of running up front in the right situation. The same as guys like Buescher, Preece, Hemric, Chastain and others.
 
JBone88 said:
So basically the Bubba thread has replaced the AIDS that was the Danica thread. Awesome.

When will the lesson be learned? You really can’t evaluate most of the mid pack due to huge equipment disparity at the moment. Everyone thought Truex and Almirola were wheelholders, until they got their shots in a top a ride. Pretty sure that worked out for them.

Bubba is no different. I’m sure he’d run much better if his cars were faster and the team wasn’t operating on a day to day basis. While I like Bubba, but I don’t think he’s some blue chip elite prospect. I do however think he’s capable of running up front in the right situation. The same as guys like Buescher, Preece, Hemric, Chastain and others.
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I agree with most of this, but there are some glaring differences comparing Danica's and Bubba's driving in a cup car and the level of car they are driving. No way of proving it, but I would wager money that if Wallace was driving a SHR car for as long as Danica did..eh you know the rest.
 
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