Caution clocks and timed races

be9ak7ts16 said:
Timed races and caution clocks will kill any interest I have left in NASCAR.
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I have no idea who's thinking caution clocks would make the racing better.
Strategy would become extremely unimportant and strategy is a part of racing
And timed races... NASCAR is not an Endurance Series. Timed races would Change NASCAR completely and I don't think that would make the races better.
 
Strategy would remain, it would just be different strategies.

The above statement is NOT an endorsement of caution clocks in NASCAR racing.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Strategy would remain, it would just be different strategies.

The above statement is NOT an endorsement of caution clocks in NASCAR racing.
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Seriously though, what strategy will matter in the first 3/4ths of the race? Especially if they continue with the Lucky Dog and Wave Around. Drivers will have little incentive not to take four tires every stop, as being near the front early in the race will hardly matter at all.
 
^ I don't recommend applying for any vacant crew chief positions.
 
29-4 said:
Seriously though, what strategy will matter in the first 3/4ths of the race? Especially if they continue with the Lucky Dog and Wave Around. Drivers will have little incentive not to take four tires every stop, as being near the front early in the race will hardly matter at all.
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Depends on the track. Say it's Pocono or a road course. If I pit just before the caution, I'll stay on the lead lap and be in front of those who wait for the pre-determined yellow to stop.

Say we know the cautions will last 5 laps. I know when the last one will be, so I know when to have my driver come in and top off. Or not to top off and avoid any congestion on pit road.

Just a couple of examples. I'm sure a Cup-level crew chief could think up others.

The above statements are NOT an endorsement of caution clocks in NASCAR racing.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Depends on the track. Say it's Pocono or a road course. If I pit just before the caution, I'll stay on the lead lap and be in front of those who wait for the pre-determined yellow to stop.

Say we know the cautions will last 5 laps. I know when the last one will be, so I know when to have my driver come in and top off. Or not to top off and avoid any congestion on pit road.

Just a couple of examples. I'm sure a Cup-level crew chief could think up others.

The above statements are NOT an endorsement of caution clocks in NASCAR racing.
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Good points. Guess I didn't think through it sufficiently.
 
29-4 said:
If NASCAR goes with this caution clock crap, I will be giving Indy a hard look. I got to go to my first IndyCar race at Road America last season, and had a great time. It seems to be more pure racing--the speed, the lack of cautions for no reason, no Chase, etc.
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racers following team orders to give their mate the win like F1???

FLRacingFan said:
I guess I wouldn't care so much about timed races as long as they weren't unnecessarily short but just a time maximum ensuring the race fits within its allotted TV window. I've seen a few Aussie Supercars races get cut by a couple of laps or so and it hasn't seemed like such a big deal. I wouldn't be in favor of it but I wouldn't strongly oppose it either. I don't think you mess with the major events though - Daytona, Bristol night race, Indy, Darlington, 600, Richmond night race, Homestead.
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I am all for the timed events. I DVR all races and there is nothing more frustrating to miss the ending of a race. With the timed event, CC's and drivers will have another obstacle to overcome for the win. It sure would be better than Nascar throwing the yellow to bunch the field. How many times have we witnessed a team winning the race by strategy only to have Nascar snatch that win away by letting teams a few cars back pit for new tires? That is the worst ending for any race IMO.

Simple Fan said:
Well that's sounds even dumber. So it would be the Daytona 180? Would much rather have the caution clock. Cautions never really bother me as you get a restart and those are some of the best parts of a race.
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But the most unfair for the team winning. All cautions do is give lesser teams a chance to correct their mistakes. It is phony.

donthaveanickname said:
I have no idea who's thinking caution clocks would make the racing better.
Strategy would become extremely unimportant and strategy is a part of racing
And timed races... NASCAR is not an Endurance Series. Timed races would Change NASCAR completely and I don't think that would make the races better.
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They are already timed by the number of laps, why not use a clock and make it more interesting.
 
Team Penske said:
They are already timed by the number of laps, why not use a clock and make it more interesting.
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Excellent point.

My one and only fear about timed races is mainly as an attending fan. Timed race are most certainly going to be shorter races. It's a huge investment for me to hook up my RV and head to any NASCAR track. The last thing I want is less for my $'s.

At home, as a television viewer, my fear would be a huge increase in advertising time. They are going to have to squeeze more into a smaller space. The ad time percentage would likely skyrocket.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Excellent point.

My one and only fear about timed races is mainly as an attending fan. Timed race are most certainly going to be shorter races. It's a huge investment for me to hook up my RV and head to any NASCAR track. The last thing I want is less for my $'s.

At home, as a television viewer, my fear would be a huge increase in advertising time. They are going to have to squeeze more into a smaller space. The ad time percentage would likely skyrocket.
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Unless people have got an RV ready roll, hooked it up, made the drive, unloaded and set up and then packed up and headed home.....well I don't think they understand the effort involved. I know if I was going to make that effort the last thing I would want to imagine is seeing less green flag laps and this is the sort of initiative would may make me decide to stay home and do something else.

As far as viewing from home goes timed races won't bother me a bit as I find a lot of the programming, including some of what happens under green, non essential anyway. I know it is sacrilege but I find most of the races could stand to be shortened and in fact several have already over the years.
 
Team orders have been around since the first owner to enter multiple cars arrived on the scene.

Not unlike each team strictly complying to the 100% rule ‘n all caution flags are for hazardous conditions on the track.
 
I actually don't mind seeing teammates help each other out, especially at plate tracks where it's beneficial. Then again, I don't seem to have the natural aversion to 4 car superteams like most on here.
 
NASCAR already has caution clocks in Cup. It's the debris caution that comes out when the field is getting ready for a third consecutive green flag pit stop.

That or the annual caution flag that waves when the field exits turn four at Daytona (or enters the trioval at Talladega) coming to the checkered flag. Unless Mark Martin's leading the race....
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Excellent point.

My one and only fear about timed races is mainly as an attending fan. Timed race are most certainly going to be shorter races. It's a huge investment for me to hook up my RV and head to any NASCAR track. The last thing I want is less for my $'s.

At home, as a television viewer, my fear would be a huge increase in advertising time. They are going to have to squeeze more into a smaller space. The ad time percentage would likely skyrocket.
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I think commercial time is governed by broadcasting licence and is limited to 15 min per hour.
Being at the track for a 3 hour race will be the same as run all the laps or call the race for rain or run out the clock after 3 hours. They may have to cut the time spent with all the introductions or have that part in a pre-race show.
 
Team Penske said:
I think commercial time is governed by broadcasting licence and is limited to 15 min per hour.
Being at the track for a 3 hour race will be the same as run all the laps or call the race for rain or run out the clock after 3 hours. They may have to cut the time spent with all the introductions or have that part in a pre-race show.
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I've never heard a limit set on commercials. Where does that come from?

A rain shortened race is something that happens, rarely, by chance. A shortened race by design is a race where I'd be getting less for my $'s. When I get less for my money I stop buying the product.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I've never heard a limit set on commercials. Where does that come from?

A rain shortened race is something that happens, rarely, by chance. A shortened race by design is a race where I'd be getting less for my $'s. When I get less for my money I stop buying the product.
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It isn't a shortened race. That would be if they advertised 3 hrs and called the race after less than 3 hrs.

The government body that licence all companies such as TV, radio etc.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
I think we're suffering from communication breakdown as i fail to be able to get my point across.
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Penske is right if they change the name of the race to the "3 Hours of Martinsville" You're right if they still call it the Martinsville 500 and don't get all the laps in.
 
Team Penske said:
I think commercial time is governed by broadcasting licence and is limited to 15 min per hour.
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If there's a limit, it's a darned sight more than 15 minutes. I recall from Jayski's commercial-to-content numbers that we get almost 1 minute of ads for every two minutes of racing. That would put it at 20 min/hr.
 
It would be very sad and the founders of NASCAR would be rolling over in their graves
 
Charlie Spencer said:
If there's a limit, it's a darned sight more than 15 minutes. I recall from Jayski's commercial-to-content numbers that we get almost 1 minute of ads for every two minutes of racing. That would put it at 20 min/hr.
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That may be what is allowed in the USA.
What ever it is, they can't flood the broadcast time with commercials as was suggested.
I am wondering what category those ticker advertising falls under. If they are still showing the race and the sound pertains to racing then it probably isn't included.
 
Timed races wouldn't be bad to have, as long as there is no caution clock.

How long are the races right now?
 
I believe that broadcast network restrictions on ad time in the U.S. were eliminated long ago in the 1980's. They have them in Canada, the UK, and elsewhere. Cable networks would not be restricted, they aren't licensed or regulated in the same way.
 
R Clarence said:
Depends on whether you’re watchin’ in Canada or the United States.

Lawful ad run content varies.
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There shouldn't be a difference between start of green flag and checkered flag unless there's a rain delay.
 
gnomesayin said:
I believe that broadcast network restrictions on ad time in the U.S. were eliminated long ago in the 1980's. They have them in Canada, the UK, and elsewhere. Cable networks would not be restricted, they aren't licensed or regulated in the same way.
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I've seen broadcast stations run 3 hours of infomercials in the wee hours. If there are restrictions, they don't apply at all hours.
 
I would be ok with a timed events provided that there is a 6 hour minimum of green flag racing
We also need to be thinking about how many time outs a team gets per race too.
 
Greg said:
I would be ok with a timed events provided that there is a 6 hour minimum of green flag racing
We also need to be thinking about how many time outs a team gets per race too.
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No problem. Does the 3-point line go on the front or back stretch?
 
4tires17gals said:
It would be very sad and the founders of NASCAR would be rolling over in their graves
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Yeah but anyone could say that about any modern sport. Old NFL guys would be aghast at the new rules and this spread offense, old NBA guys think this 3 point crazed game is wussy ball, the MLB guys despise the DH and consider the wild card an abomination and the NHL has lost a ton of its nasty physicality since the lockout.

I will say this NASCAR has been recently and seems to be going back to where it was in the late 80s and early 90s. The crop of talent is incredibly impressive and young
 
Mispeedway15 said:
Yeah but anyone could say that about any modern sport. Old NFL guys would be aghast at the new rules and this spread offense, old NBA guys think this 3 point crazed game is wussy ball, the MLB guys despise the DH and consider the wild card an abomination and the NHL has lost a ton of its nasty physicality since the lockout.

I will say this NASCAR has been recently and seems to be going back to where it was in the late 80s and early 90s. The crop of talent is incredibly impressive and young
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None of the sports you mention have created rules that completely destroy the spirit of the competition like a caution clock would. Is today's NFL different from the 1920s? Absolutely. But it's still four quarters where whoever scores the most wins.
 
29-4 said:
None of the sports you mention have created rules that completely destroy the spirit of the competition like a caution clock would. Is today's NFL different from the 1920s? Absolutely. But it's still four quarters where whoever scores the most wins.
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And whoever leads after the last lap wins? Nothing NASCAR is doing any different than what other sports are. Good God do you remember the backlash that hit the NHL when they implemented a shootout. Literally a skills competition to win a real game, so many purists were pissed. But it is awesome and exciting and has made its way into today's game.

If these clocks can stop a race from being too strung out and boring I'm all for it. Plus in races you have cars great on restarts yet sluggish on the long run and vice versa. This makes you have to be good at both
 
I don't have as big of an issue with a clock if it allowed a green flag stop. 30 minutes seems more appropriate than 20.
 
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