Cup RACE thread --- Kansas

Brentford said:
I think Logano deserves some credit for holding off Harvick. I mean, I'm far from an expert when it comes to all the technical stuff, but there were passes all day throughout the field, so I'm not sure dirty air magically showed up at the end of the race preventing Harvick from passing Logano. Don't tell me that every other pass throughout the day occurred because the guys were just moving over for each other. You could pass, unfortunately Harvick just wasn't able to make the final one at the end of the race.
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How many of those passes were for the lead under green?

Just two seasons ago Harvick passed 7 cars with 10 to go and won the race.
 
gnomesayin said:
I couldn't conjure up a more absurd set of claims if I was trying to parody the opposing side. Logano wouldn't have held the lead for more than five laps, because he didn't have a top-five car. You can only push the throttle to the floor in an underpowered car so "hard". Pressing it harder doesn't yield results. If you had trouble staying awake through the low downforce racing at Kansas in 2018, you may have had undiagnosed disorders.

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Yes, you can pick out individual races that were pretty good, but taken in its entirety, the low downforce package was a bust, which is why NASCAR reversed course and tried something different. NOBODY was very happy that they had to abandon all that effort, but if you don't have a good show, you aren't going to have a show for long. I'm noty saying what we have now is the ultimate solution, but realistically it will have to do until they get the new car. I will ALSO say that I was adamant that one or two aero/horsepower packages for a 36 race season isn't going to cut it. The tracks are FAR too different for that.
 
StandOnIt said:
Elliott slips thru the cracks, should have been black flagged

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I am curious to know what the problem was that switching to a backup radio or radio harness wouldn't have fixed the issue. Nobody wants to spend enough time on plan B until you NEED a plan B.
 
StandOnIt said:
Elliott slips thru the cracks, should have been black flagged

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I wondered if they were going to call him in during first segment break, but he went back out and could hear them again. He could hear crew under caution, but not at speed. He could tell that they were trying to talk to him when they keyed mics, but could not understand what they were saying. It was a safety issue and probably should have been addressed. 9 team skates again, and it makes it awkward being a fan.

On a side note, especially with digital dash, couldn't NASCAR put a light or warning on the drivers' dashes that flashes when a caution comes out versus relying strictly on radio and trackside lights? Doesn't IndyCar and F1 do that?
 
Dr_B_UNC said:
I want to apologize to the board and Logano/Penske fans here. I was a stereotypical Elliott fan last night.
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It is what it is, but if you are a fan of Elliott or Bowman or both, Logano winning was one of the worst things that could have happened. Bowman even said it. The level of difficulty to get either car into the final four just went up exponentially.
 
Formerjackman said:
I am curious to know what the problem was that switching to a backup radio or radio harness wouldn't have fixed the issue. Nobody wants to spend enough time on plan B until you NEED a plan B.
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The problem was either in the radio connection on the headrest or the helmet wiring itself. Would they let a driver change to a new helmet midrace? Serious question.
 
Formerjackman said:
It is what it is, but if you are a fan of Elliott or Bowman or both, Logano winning was one of the worst things that could have happened. Bowman even said it. The level of difficulty to get either car into the final four just went up exponentially.
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Hence my temper tantrum last night.
 
The 9 and 88 are now racing the 2. That's not a hill, it's a mountain. It's going to come down to a hail mary at Martinsville.
 
Formerjackman said:
It is what it is, but if you are a fan of Elliott or Bowman or both, Logano winning was one of the worst things that could have happened. Bowman even said it. The level of difficulty to get either car into the final four just went up exponentially.
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And Logano won the last Phoenix...the worm turned for the 22 team..huge win
 
Dr_B_UNC said:
I wondered if they were going to call him in during first segment break, but he went back out and could hear them again. He could hear crew under caution, but not at speed. He could tell that they were trying to talk to him when they keyed mics, but could not understand what they were saying. It was a safety issue and probably should have been addressed. 9 team skates again, and it makes it awkward being a fan.

On a side note, especially with digital dash, couldn't NASCAR put a light or warning on the drivers' dashes that flashes when a caution comes out versus relying strictly on radio and trackside lights? Doesn't IndyCar and F1 do that?
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They HAD a system like that, did they do away with it? At one time it was a light on the dash. I assumed it was intergrated into the digital dash, don't know. The warning light was one of the measures taken after Eric Martin was killed in ARCA practice at Charlotte in 2002. Martin spun and was t-boned by another car that did not know the caution was out, because at that time, at least in ARCA, spotters were not required during practice sessions.
 
gnomesayin said:
Logano won the race. Nobody disputes that. It didn't take being the best driver in the field to do that, just landing in front with this package. Austin Dillon did the same thing at Texas with a sub-top ten car. Same deal. Some people think that's suspenseful. Something tells me it is wearing thin and today could be a turning point.
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We shall see.

I'm all for close racing, but to stall out like that for what 30-40 laps like that was just... It just left a bad taste in my mouth yesterday and I usually have had no issue, but it was just a mess to watch that.

I can't pretend like I enjoyed it. Great, the cars are close to one another, but after the restart and going into a longer green flag run made it practically impossible to pass for the lead unless someone lifted.

Bet it was probably better in person, but on the TV? Nah, I was not feeling it yesterday with the supposed "suspense".
 
Dr_B_UNC said:
The 9 and 88 are now racing the 2. That's not a hill, it's a mountain. It's going to come down to a hail mary at Martinsville.
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Yeah Penske is going to throw everything at the 2 car now that the 22 is in. Bowman had the fastest car at the end of the race IMO which was good to see. The Hendrick's have continued to improve. Elliott dodged a bullet. Although he got lucky and didn't get flagged, he was severly handicaped not being able to hear his spotter or pit. It was ugly but it could have been worse for the 9
 
Dr_B_UNC said:
The problem was either in the radio connection on the headrest or the helmet wiring itself. Would they let a driver change to a new helmet midrace? Serious question.
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I'm not sure about NASCAR but NHRA you can as long as it was signed off by a tech official. A couple tech officials comes to each teams pit on Thursdays and checks the car and all of the drivers safety equipment to make sure the SFI stickers are current. A lot of drivers have 2 helmets teched at that time. After that the only thing that gets checked is after a run they weigh the cars and check the fuel and "the wing angle on the dragsters".
 
gnomesayin said:
Logano won the race. Nobody disputes that. It didn't take being the best driver in the field to do that, just landing in front with this package. Austin Dillon did the same thing at Texas with a sub-top ten car. Same deal. Some people think that's suspenseful. Something tells me it is wearing thin and today could be a turning point.
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I agree that it seems like a turning point against NA18D. We saw glimpses of this at Texas and Las Vegas where Austin Dillon and Kurt Busch suddenly were unbeatable after gaining clean air with timely cautions and strategy. But those were at least very short runs broken up by numerous cautions to the finish. Yesterday was 40 green laps of the same cycle - get a run, hit the bubble and stall out on the straight or get aero wash in the turn, reset and get another run and do the same thing. There was more than enough time for something to happen and it never materialized.
 
It's an old argument for people with short memories. I don't know how many races were won by the Gibbs's pit crews with their million dollar pit guns...out front in clean air and un-passible.
 
FLRacingFan said:
I agree that it seems like a turning point against NA18D. We saw glimpses of this at Texas and Las Vegas where Austin Dillon and Kurt Busch suddenly were unbeatable after gaining clean air with timely cautions and strategy. But those were at least very short runs broken up by numerous cautions to the finish. Yesterday was 40 green laps of the same cycle - get a run, hit the bubble and stall out on the straight or get aero wash in the turn, reset and get another run and do the same thing. There was more than enough time for something to happen and it never materialized.
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This pretty much sums up the feeling.

No ill will against trying this package because it has put on some great races. It's just yesterday it was practically impossible to pass the leader, I don't think Harvick would have gotten any closer than he did. Logano did what he was supposed to do, dump dirty air on Harvick and it practically made it difficult to get within anything less than two tenths behind him.

Now, I could only imagine how it is in the mid-field because many of the drivers were complaining about the same issue over the radio. Most guys were running in a line behind one another, heck some ran better in clean air. However, you get within a few tenths and the nose wants to wash away or they got a "bubble".

The Gen 6s time is about up, so yeah... I'm still going to enjoy this, but yesterday was just really bad to watch.
 
Formerjackman said:
I am curious to know what the problem was that switching to a backup radio or radio harness wouldn't have fixed the issue. Nobody wants to spend enough time on plan B until you NEED a plan B.
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They more then likely didnt have a second harness installed and from what I heard and saw, he was modulating fine and could be heard so that tells me its in his helmet or his plugs.
 
Dr_B_UNC said:
The problem was either in the radio connection on the headrest or the helmet wiring itself. Would they let a driver change to a new helmet midrace? Serious question.
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Yes, he would be allowed to change helmets but he must do it on pit road with the car not moving. The helmet would be inspected for safety date before being passed to the driver.
 
Speaking of Chases radio problem, let me tell you guys what one of the most stressful moments a Spotter can have. Its 5 minuets from command, the National Anthem is over and you put your radio on and key up and say, "how bout you buddy, you got a copy? And you get no reply. You wait 10 seconds and ask again, nothing. Now you are in full blown panic. Is it your radio, is it his? So you hit the button to a crew member," how bout you Mike you got a copy?" And you hear "yes sir, loud and clear"." Mike run out and see if Jimmys got a problem I cant get him on the radio!!".. Mike runs out and then I hear Jimmy come on, "can you hear me bud, forgot to turn the damn radio on" That actually happened lol

There are other times when it didnt work out that easy and they had to change radios in the car or a runner brought me a new one even after the back up failed. Needless to say radio checks were done before the race but even after that something can always go wrong. When you see us with those back packs on going up to the spotters stand, its not all drinks and snacks. ;)
 
Spotter22 said:
Speaking of Chases radio problem, let me tell you guys what one of the most stressful moments a Spotter can have. Its 5 minuets from command, the National Anthem is over and you put your radio on and key up and say, "how bout you buddy, you got a copy? And you get no reply. You wait 10 seconds and ask again, nothing. Now you are in full blown panic. Is it your radio, is it his? So you hit the button to a crew member," how bout you Mike you got a copy?" And you hear "yes sir, loud and clear"." Mike run out and see if Jimmys got a problem I cant get him on the radio!!".. Mike runs out and then I hear Jimmy come on, "can you hear me bud, forgot to turn the damn radio on" That actually happened lol

There are other times when it didnt work out that easy and they had to change radios in the car or a runner brought me a new one even after the back up failed. Needless to say radio checks were done before the race but even after that something can always go wrong. When you see us with those back packs on going up to the spotters stand, its not all drinks and snacks. ;)
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If there are no drinks, snacks, or a comfortable chair in the shade then I'm out. :D
 
Kiante said:
I think that's why it wasn't enforced this time around. I'm not sure if the ruling had been used before.
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I was gonna say. Theres been races where drivers have no radio comms all day and nothing was mentioned about a penalty. To enforce it now would be asinine.
 
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Kiante said:
I think that's why it wasn't enforced this time around. I'm not sure if the ruling had been used before.
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It doesn't warrant a penalty, its a safety issue and if its caught you WILL have to fix it. I dont know what hes talking about but I can assure you what happened with NASCAR missing Elliott is rare. They can can communicate directly with the spotter because we have to monitor NASCAR if they have any instructions for us. He got VERY, VERY lucky.
 
There were races in which there was no speed limit on pit road. How can they enforce that now?

Because safety standards change.
 
Defensive driving... this was straight up daring Harvick to put a bumper to him for 40 laps! Blocking every line on entry, juking back and forth on a 1.5. I mean hell, he even dropped down into Harvick's line mid-corner with 5 to go and Harvick lifted for him! wtf was that? that was part of it. You had the 1 guy that was points to the good and unwilling to risk tearing his own stuff up, trying to win a championship that he's already won in a legitimate system. He sacrificed win #10 to secure Phoenix (which is still not secure).

If it's anyone else Logano IS GETTING SENT! No one should be putting up with that. Harvick allowed it. This is the box NASCAR put him in, and exactly what they wanted when they created this package, force contact force chaos. Harvick wouldn't go for it, I can't blame him for not being wired that way and playing NASCAR's game, he tried to do it clean for 40 and that wasn't happening with the air the way it was, ain't happening when you're going to lift for the guy dropping down into your line either.

It was combination of Package, Logano with nothing to lose, and Harvick with everything to lose.

What Harvick said post-race "Logano is a good blocker" is code for try that crap at Phoenix and you're getting dumped btw.

Someone needs to be willing to move Logano out of these spots as much as he's willing to move them.
 
gnomesayin said:
There were races in which there was no speed limit on pit road. How can they enforce that now?

Because safety standards change.
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Before a car hits the track, the Spotter has to sign in. If he doesnt, you wont make a lap. You are correct sir
 
gnomesayin said:
There were races in which there was no speed limit on pit road. How can they enforce that now?

Because safety standards change.
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Imagine if pit road speed limits were enforced at some races and not at others. If there is a rule in place, enforce it evenly. Don’t come out and say “ah we missed a penalty” when there hasn’t been a penalty for it prior. Pointless to create a rule with no enforcement.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Imagine if pit road speed limits were enforced at some races and not at others. If there is a rule in place, enforce it evenly. Don’t come out and say “ah we missed a penalty” when there hasn’t been a penalty for it prior. Pointless to create a rule with no enforcement.
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I think Pockrass nailed it. The fact that the rule is on the books now and went unenforced is a dicey situation, especially given the massively popular driver it favored. I actually believe it was an oversight and not intentional, but the optics are questionable.
 
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