Cup Races Too Long?

StandOnIt said:
That's all true, but I don't think Nascar wants to. As it is, they have drasticly shortened qualifying and practice and many race days. I think TV had a say in that part easier to program is my hunch.
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I'm not sure what TV will want. Back in the late 00s when TV wanted shorter races there was no streaming, so everyone watched on cable and ad revenue was worth a lot for all sports. College sports were also taking off, and the NFL was on fire. NASCAR, meanwhile, was pretty undesirable. Now it's flipped. NASCAR is still mostly consumed by traditional cable and it's safe to say that that's not changing any time soon, unlike other sports all going to streaming. Most other sports are going through the same tanking in viewership NASCAR did 15 years ago as well, while NASCAR is seeing only slight declines in comparison.

Essentially if you look at it through the eyes of "how much ad revenue can we make on traditional advertising", it looks like NASCAR is one of the last dinosaurs still standing tall while most others have gone extinct as the asteroid of streaming services causes extinction to the TV/media industry as it had been known throughout the entire 20th and early 21st centuries.
 
As has been well documented on this forum, the core of the problem isn't as much the length of the races (although they are too long for today's world) as much as it is that the drivers tend to take it easy and cruise around while they wait for the important part of the race to come up. While some hardcore fans love every second of it, the rest of us get bored during these long lulls.
 
If you guys have noticed, they do more and more side by side commercials now during green flag commercials.

I however, DVR the races and commercials are no issue for me.

But, they need to do away with the cautions at the end of stages. At the end of stages just go to a green flag side by side commercial, it ain't rocket science.
 
sdj said:
If you guys have noticed, they do more and more side by side commercials now during green flag commercials.

I however, DVR the races and commercials are no issue for me.

But, they need to do away with the cautions at the end of stages. At the end of stages just go to a green flag side by side commercial, it ain't rocket science.
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Great idea, but it isn't going to happen. TV is going to get paid. That isn't rocket science but economics 101. It's a cash cow :idunno:
 
In a fantasy world, there would be no commercials, no stage breaks, and cautions that take seconds to fix and everybody would be happy...Until some jackass comes along and starts complaining that the races are too long lol.
 
StandOnIt said:
Great idea, but it isn't going to happen. TV is going to get paid. That isn't rocket science but economics 101. It's a cash cow :idunno:
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:lol2: We got it ,we got it.

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If the stages are eliminated what can be done with all the commercials is the problem, play them with the race going on? remember the saying "while we were away"? I don't want to go back to that. They suck, but I can't think of a better solution than not having any commercials at all, and that isn't going to happen. There HAS been some good races fighting for stage points FWIW, and a lot less riding around.
 
Before stages fans complained about drivers just coasting around the track and not racing hard until the last few laps unless there was a good chance for rain and drivers even admitted they were doing that. So basically, the finish was about all you had to look forward to. Heck, I used to watch the start and then switch to something else and just check back in a few times during the race until the last 20 or 30 laps. Now the drivers are pretty much on kill mode through the whole race and you usually get 3 pretty exciting finishes. I realize that because stages force the drivers to race hard from the green flag until the checkered flag that there are more chances that a fans driver could get taken out early and then said fan will be bummed the rest of the race. I have had this happen to me a few times and that is why I root for more than 1 driver. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind I'm just sharing what I have noticed. One thing is for sure NASCAR can't win no matter their decision.
 
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FLRacingFan said:
Shorter scheduled race distances, but the races are averaging pretty much as long as only two other instances in the last half century. Doesn’t seem like anything is wrong with race distances, but the flow of the race is slowed more by stages and caution procedure.
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Yep, I feel like race distances are just fine. If stages were eliminated, it would bring back a flow to the races. I don't mind them, but for things like road courses its such a mess at times.

Races have been shortened and 500 mile races are dwindling away. Just let the stages go, but its the age old question for NASCAR.

Focus more on the entertainment side or be dedicated to focus strictly in the racing aspect. It's more of entertainment to me, if I really want to watch something that focuses "pure" racing you have WRC, Aussie Supercars, and honestly any form of motorcycle racing. Sports car racing as well is extremely organic and how things come into place.

I would like NASCAR to focus on the racing and dynamics more, but at the same time I understand what they are gunning for, at times.
 
Nitro Dude said:
Now the drivers are pretty much on kill mode through the whole race and you usually get 3 pretty exciting finishes. I realize that because stages force the drivers to race hard from the green flag until the checkered flag that there are more chances that a fans driver could get taken out early and then said fan will be bummed the rest of the race. I have had this happen to me a few times and that is why I root for more than 1 driver. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind I'm just sharing what I have noticed. One thing is for sure NASCAR can't win no matter their decision.
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That's one opinion. However some drivers, such as Dale Jr, admit that they race harder now because the cars are less able to pass one another. Used to be you'd let someone around you knowing that you could run them down later in the race. Races like last week are a pretty good indication of that's just not the case anymore, drivers need to fight to keep everything they have. Not sure how hard they race has as much to do with stages as they know the chances of getting back around that driver later are not great
 
Nitro Dude said:
Before stages fans complained about drivers just coasting around the track and not racing hard until the last few laps unless there was a good chance for rain and drivers even admitted they were doing that. So basically, the finish was about all you had to look forward to. Heck, I used to watch the start and then switch to something else and just check back in a few times during the race until the last 20 or 30 laps. Now the drivers are pretty much on kill mode through the whole race and you usually get 3 pretty exciting finishes. I realize that because stages force the drivers to race hard from the green flag until the checkered flag that there are more chances that a fans driver could get taken out early and then said fan will be bummed the rest of the race. I have had this happen to me a few times and that is why I root for more than 1 driver. I'm not trying to change anyone's mind I'm just sharing what I have noticed. One thing is for sure NASCAR can't win no matter their decision.
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That was a game changer over all of the other series. I do that with the Rolex 24 sometimes. They don't start racing really hard until the last 20 minutes. With the stages, every race there is hard racing at the stage endings.
 
wi_racefan said:
That's one opinion. However some drivers, such as Dale Jr, admit that they race harder now because the cars are less able to pass one another. Used to be you'd let someone around you knowing that you could run them down later in the race. Races like last week are a pretty good indication of that's just not the case anymore, drivers need to fight to keep everything they have. Not sure how hard they race has as much to do with stages as they know the chances of getting back around that driver later are not great
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Good point... but no matter which is the main reason for the hard racing we see now I just don't want to see anything changed that changes that. Like I said before, I was in and out during a race and now I don't even want to get up and go to the fridge or to piss until the stage caution laps and that is when I do. I don't like to go during a regular caution because I like to see what happened and watch the replays if it was due to a crash.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
The only thing time wise that kills me is the cautions. Shouldn’t take seven laps to clean up a one car crash, this isn’t Podunk Fairgrounds Raceway.
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For the most part it doesn't take seven laps to clean up a one car crash. It takes seven laps to get the pits open, clean up the crash and "step aside" for a 4 minute commercial break, then another lap for the choose cone. Good thing is I can usually get my burger done medium rare on the grill during most any caution.
 
StandOnIt said:
If the stages are eliminated what can be done with all the commercials is the problem, play them with the race going on? remember the saying "while we were away"? I don't want to go back to that. They suck, but I can't think of a better solution than not having any commercials at all, and that isn't going to happen. There HAS been some good races fighting for stage points FWIW, and a lot less riding around.
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They had commercials before the implementation of stage racing.
Take a rest.
 
Nitro Dude said:
Good point... but no matter which is the main reason for the hard racing we see now I just don't want to see anything changed that changes that. Like I said before, I was in and out during a race and now I don't even want to get up and go to the fridge or to piss until the stage caution laps and that is when I do. I don't like to go during a regular caution because I like to see what happened and watch the replays if it was due to a crash.
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Depends.
 
DIDIT said:
For the most part it doesn't take seven laps to clean up a one car crash. It takes seven laps to get the pits open, clean up the crash and "step aside" for a 4 minute commercial break, then another lap for the choose cone. Good thing is I can usually get my burger done medium rare on the grill during most any caution.
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this. I have gotten used to the stages/breaks, its a necessary evil for the commercials. What I have hated from the start is it takes 7 laps to clean up a 1 car caution, clearly sandbagging for a GWC at the end of the race when a 1 car happens.
 
DIDIT said:
For the most part it doesn't take seven laps to clean up a one car crash. It takes seven laps to get the pits open, clean up the crash and "step aside" for a 4 minute commercial break, then another lap for the choose cone. Good thing is I can usually get my burger done medium rare on the grill during most any caution.
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Right there is a man who adapts.
 
Just want to be clear on your thoughts on this, @StandOnIt , If it were not for the Commercials at stage breaks, above all else in the world, commercials are the absolute most important thing in the whole wide world, bar any other, just commercials, the Holiest of Holy Commercial is the end all of the world. Without commercials at the stage breaks, our whole existence would disappear, without stage break commercials in Nascar?

popcorn-muncher.gif
 
sdj said:
Just want to be clear on your thoughts on this, @StandOnIt , If it were not for the Commercials at stage breaks, above all else in the world, commercials are the absolute most important thing in the whole wide world, bar any other, just commercials, the Holiest of Holy Commercial is the end all of the world. Without commercials at the stage breaks, our whole existence would disappear, without stage break commercials in Nascar?

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every morning I pray at the alter of the commercials. Please more insurance creatures, fake food, and above all trying to make a toyota look exciting.
 
StandOnIt said:
If the stages are eliminated what can be done with all the commercials is the problem, play them with the race going on? remember the saying "while we were away"? I don't want to go back to that. They suck, but I can't think of a better solution than not having any commercials at all, and that isn't going to happen. There HAS been some good races fighting for stage points FWIW, and a lot less riding around.
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Have you been watching Fox? There's still a lot of "while we were away" going on.

TNT used to do that Wide Open coverage where they only had four minutes of commercials per hour for local commercial inserts, and incorporated their ads with the race itself quite brilliantly. USA doesn't allow a lot of local ad insertions on their NASCAR broadcasts (ask me how I know). ABC was commercial-free for over three hours for coverage of the US Grand Prix last fall. MSNBC was commercial-free for almost a full day when the war in Ukraine started.

I mean, if full screen commercials were only happening during stage breaks and cautions, I don't think you'd see people bitching about them as much. There are times that Fox has sat there and stayed on the air during an entire caution period, then gone to full screen commercial two laps into a green flag run. And the stage breaks were actually intended for Fox and NBC to be able to knock out four commercial breaks (two breaks at each stage break), but they're often times using that time meant for a second stage break to talk to Shannon Spake and Jamie McMurray "at the Race Hub Studio in Charlotte."

I swear, every time there's a red flag and Fox spends 20 minutes showing me pictures of cars parked on the backstretch, then goes to commercial three laps after they took the green flag, I want to pull all my hair out.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Have you been watching Fox? There's still a lot of "while we were away" going on.

TNT used to do that Wide Open coverage where they only had four minutes of commercials per hour for local commercial inserts, and incorporated their ads with the race itself quite brilliantly. USA doesn't allow a lot of local ad insertions on their NASCAR broadcasts (ask me how I know). ABC was commercial-free for over three hours for coverage of the US Grand Prix last fall. MSNBC was commercial-free for almost a full day when the war in Ukraine started.

I mean, if full screen commercials were only happening during stage breaks and cautions, I don't think you'd see people bitching about them as much. There are times that Fox has sat there and stayed on the air during an entire caution period, then gone to full screen commercial two laps into a green flag run. And the stage breaks were actually intended for Fox and NBC to be able to knock out four commercial breaks (two breaks at each stage break), but they're often times using that time meant for a second stage break to talk to Shannon Spake and Jamie McMurray "at the Race Hub Studio in Charlotte."

I swear, every time there's a red flag and Fox spends 20 minutes showing me pictures of cars parked on the backstretch, then goes to commercial three laps after they took the green flag, I want to pull all my hair out.
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I understand you are the self appointed chief critic of the Fox sports network. But most of this rant is all about your pet peeves and not what I was discussing. I'm sure you will be able to get in many Fox sucks this weekend. Second generation from ESPN.
 
My opinions for 2023 schedule…let me know if you agree/disagree with!

Only Races that are 500 miles or over:
Daytona 500
Atlanta 500
Coke 600
Southern 500
Talladega Fall 500

Also keep Bristol night (500 laps) and both Martinsville races (500 laps), All road courses are fine distance wise, Bristol Dirt stays 250 laps, Stages stay but NO yellow flag will be thrown

All other races should be 300-400 miles in length
300 Milers: Phoenix (Spring and Fall), Dover, Gateway, Nashville, Loudon
400 Milers: Auto Club, Las Vegas Spring and Fall, Richmond Spring and Summer, Talladega Spring, Darlington Spring, Kansas Spring and Fall, Atlanta Summer, Pocono, Daytona Summer, Texas, Homestead

Clash: LA Coliseum or other venue similar
All Star Race: North Wilkesboro
 
When I go to sporting events I want to feel like I’m getting my money’s worth. I attend nba games at anyway and sit in the legends section. Free food, drinks, not bad of a ticket deal. Spending money on court side for a game that last less than 2.5 hours doesn’t appeal to me unless I get a great deal. At cota I sit in the paddock club for nascar. $600 per person and includes drinks, food, track access and a gift. For f1 the same seats are $4600 for 2 days and the race lasts less than 90 minutes. I can’t justify paying that. But if I got a really good deal on them I would pay. The Daytona 500 lasts about 3.5 hours. How would you feel if it was the Daytona 350 and only lasts 2.5 hours but the price stayed the same?
 
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