Dale Sr talks about the "aero package"

Discussion in 'NASCAR chat' started by Spotter22, Dec 18, 2018.

  1. Formerjackman

    Formerjackman Team Owner


    Such as? The only person I thought maybe got gypped out of the first Hall class was David Pearson, but not because Earnhardt got in, and as truly great as Pearson was as a driver, his overall importance to NASCAR as an entity was substantially less than the five who WERE in the first class. Richard Petty, Junior Johnson and Dale Earnhardt cast a shadow FAR wider over the sport than merely race wins and championships.
     
  2. ChexOrWrex

    ChexOrWrex Ya gotta wanna

    The reason we havent seen a serious injury with a full helmet is because the HANS prevents the opportunity for blunt force trama.

    Everything you’ve said is correct. It is true that Stewart felt like a HANS type device in the cockpit was like a noose and Dale Jarrett has said that DE mocked him for wearing one. Still doesnt diminish the fact that since his death he has been deified even moreso than when alive. Made to look like he could do no wrong and had a huge heart his whole life.
     
  3. ChexOrWrex

    ChexOrWrex Ya gotta wanna

  4. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck


    Yep Earnhardt was one of many that didn't want changes and of course there are some want to blame him while at the same token, our Government had to make it a law for us to wear a seat belts to save us from ourselves.
     
  5. Formerjackman

    Formerjackman Team Owner

    Dale Earnhardt had (and still does have) a huge following of loving fans who were drawn to his larger than life persona, but I don't know how many people deify him. I think more than anything, he represents the golden era of NASCAR when the sport was growing by leaps and bounds. all seemed right with the world and a hard nosed small town high school dropout with a wry smile and gritty determination ruled the sport. I was never an Earnhardt fan, although I respected his talent and his accomplishments immensely and I think he was basically a good hard working honest man, who did a LOT of wonderful things for people without EVER bringing attention to himself, but certainly not without his faults. He was often overly aggressive on the track, getting away with incidents he SHOULD have been penalized for, his track record as a parent was spotty at BEST, and the turmoil he left his family in by not clearly indicating what role (if any) his children would play in the DEI empire in the event of his death was kind of inexcusable.
     
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  6. Spotter22

    Spotter22 Team Owner

    They disagree with me about what? I didnt comment on his seat belt positioning, so you must mean Jarrett and Gordon think he was stupid, got a link?
     
  7. Spotter22

    Spotter22 Team Owner

    The open face helmet didnt kill him.
     
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  8. ChexOrWrex

    ChexOrWrex Ya gotta wanna

    Jarret has recalled several times that DE asked him if he was afraid of dying - some articles saying in a mocking manner to rib Jarrett, others say not so much. Either way it’s well documented that DE wouldnt even listen to the science behind the HANS device. Him and several “good ol boys” were too good to listen and attend meetings about it.

    Gordon did talk about DE’s seat in a docu about racecar safety. While the seats were changed to cocoon drivers in the cockpit more and more Dale swapped the seats out, beat the seats with a hammer and moved the steering wheel to create the maximum amount of room possible. Again, going against the grain of the newest safety innovations.
     
  9. Snappy D

    Snappy D 2017 Pick Em Champion 2018 Bold Predictor

    Didn’t the open face helmet contribute to his death....his face smashed the steering wheel at a high speed
     
  10. ChexOrWrex

    ChexOrWrex Ya gotta wanna

    Experts conclude he was more than likely dead prior from the basilar skull fracture. Although the rate at which Earnhardt struck the wheel was enough to kill him as well. He had little in his favor at his angle of impact with the devices that failed.
     
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  11. BobbyFord

    BobbyFord Resident Gearhead Contributor

    The head left the spine.
    Dale would likely be alive had he worn a HANS device.
     
  12. Formerjackman

    Formerjackman Team Owner

    Probably true, but then again, only a couple drivers in that race WERE wearing them, so it's hard to single out Earnhardt for that.
     
  13. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    Comparing what is considered safe today to the norms of yesterday doesn't work very well. ...Bud
     
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  14. BobbyFord

    BobbyFord Resident Gearhead Contributor

    He was the only dead guy at the time.
     
  15. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    His passing swayed public opinion, drivers attitudes, and brought on a rush to safer racing. IMO Petty and Sr were the two most influential drivers the sport has seen. Nobody before or after their racing careers has come close to what they did to build the sport.
     
  16. Formerjackman

    Formerjackman Team Owner

    Very true. For the entire history of auto racing, the sport in general and drivers in particular have been VERY slow to implement things related to safety for various reasons, from cost to tradition to competitive disadvantage to not understanding the risks to just plain old bravado. The first Hans Devices went on sale in 1990, and yet HOW MANY drivers were wearing one the day Dale Earnhardt died over 10 years later? Were Adam Petty Petty, Kenny Irwin Jr, and Tony Roper just as stubborn and stupid? What about the other 35+ guys in that race? What was THEIR excuse? Earnhardt stands out because of his stature, but he was just one of THOUSANDS of race car drivers around the world that misunderstood or underestimated the very real risk of basilar skull fractures, just as the obvious merits of seat belts, helmets, tire inner liners, fire retardant uniforms and fuel cells were in their day. Today, nobody in any major racing series would even dream about going over a pit wall without a fire suit and a helmet. Neither of those things was EVEN MANDATED by ARCA until the 2003 season.
     
  17. aunty dive

    aunty dive Team Owner

    A lousy husband (twice) and a terrible father. Wife # 3 was the business brains ... not him.

    Helluva race car driver. His redeeming quality.
     
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  18. ChexOrWrex

    ChexOrWrex Ya gotta wanna

    It does when the tech that could have saved him was actually available then. 7 drivers in the 2001 Daytona 500 were wearing the early version of the HANS. It was the same idea, just bulkier.

    Whats even worse is that Dale, and many other good ol boys of the time, made it known to the guys presenting the information that they were not welcome in their garage. GM persisted their drivers wear the harness. Dale outwardly ignored their data. There were meetings that Dale purposely failed to attend that were focused on the new findings about BSF by the teams behind the HANS. It’s awfully ironic that he was the voluntary antithesis of the safety tech that spread like wildfire after his passing.

    Rose colored glasses reading revisionist history.
     
  19. Ventisca

    Ventisca Crew Chief Contributor

    Racing and safety has always been a progression thru time and tragedy. More recently it is the SAFER Barrier.

    But competitors grew up with different racing perspectives and disagree or not, people resist change.

    Daytona 500 Qualifying:
    1970: 194 mph
    1980: 194
    1987: 210!
    1990: 196
    2000: 191
    2010: 191
    2018: 195

    I doubt the modern driver would want to climb into a 1970 Cup car and run that speed wearing a 1970 helmet and other 1970s-era gear, chassis/cage, tires, track wall, etc

    No wonder they smoked in those cars... :D
     
  20. KTMLew01

    KTMLew01 Team Owner

    Nope. Lower left rear side of skull hit something in cockpit when his body was pulled back into seat after left side lap belt broke. Basically he was hung meaning skull was broken at base. Impact broke the skull which ruptured arteries which is actual fatal aspect of basilar skull injury. They bleed out through ears and mouth instantly. Zero chance of survival. His neck ligaments showed no stretching normally found from interial forces of helmet. He died because the front structure of the car was too stiff. Rusty Wallace was allowed to see the car and said his team immediately cut ""the spider" off the front of their chassis. The teams had built a fairly complex "1 tubing structure surrounding the engine. Stiffer was faster. But deadly. They had to partially disassemble the engines for installation.
     
  21. KTMLew01

    KTMLew01 Team Owner

    All of the ribs on left side were broken. Nobody knows if broken during crash or during resuscitation. Possibly his chest DID impact RH area of steering wheel.
     
  22. KTMLew01

    KTMLew01 Team Owner

    Something in the car "karate chopped" him at LR of skull. It was NOT the typical basilar skull fracture resulting from inertial forces. They show up as stretched ligaments in the neck structure.
     
  23. BobbyFord

    BobbyFord Resident Gearhead Contributor

    Kwai Chang Caine was in the backseat.
    Missed by most of the replay footage.
     
  24. KTMLew01

    KTMLew01 Team Owner

    He died because of chassis stiffness. The car didn't compress/deform enough, the seat belt broke partly due to mounting, helmet rolled forward and when he slammed back into seat back of head hit something. Lots of sh!t went wrong.
     
  25. KTMLew01

    KTMLew01 Team Owner

    Those cars bent and absorbed impact. Newer jig built stuff is WAAAAAY stiffer. Stiffer may be faster but sure hurts when you hit stuff.
     
  26. ChexOrWrex

    ChexOrWrex Ya gotta wanna

    He did sustain a hairline skull fracture from the front of the brain to the rear, as well as sustaining the textbook BSF. Reports show his chin struck the steering wheel with enough force to bend the wheel. Broken ribs. Abdominal bleeding as well as a laceration on the lower abdomen.

    That being said, even if his harness did not flip and tear, he’d have had the same fate from the BSF. His restraints failing to hold him in place had little significance towards his fatal injuries.
     
  27. KTMLew01

    KTMLew01 Team Owner

    Nope. Chin did NOT hit the steering wheel. Skull was impacted at rear not "torqued" apart like a normal basilar skull fracture. I studied this case extensively for more than a year after Nascar report was released. The guy that claimed his chin hit wheel never saw the body and made that claim before the autopsy results were released. His opinion was debuked by autopsy results.
     
  28. ChexOrWrex

    ChexOrWrex Ya gotta wanna

    Bohannon’s preliminary conclusions were faulty and simply incorrect. Myers’s reports have been shown as the more than likely scenario. His examinations dissprove theories such as the death from skull striking the the roll cage and death from his head snapping backwards after the initial impact into the seat/rollcage behind him.

    Dale was more than likely instantly killed from a bsf which shears major blood vessels as well as severely damages the brain stem.

    His head certainly struck the wheel and more than likely snapped back into the cockpit and caused more damage, but he was already gone. Blink of an eye.

    http://articles.latimes.com/2001/apr/10/sports/sp-49247
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2018
  29. Formerjackman

    Formerjackman Team Owner

    While re-reading some of the posts here, I came back across this one, and it's absolutely right on the money. How many people here didn't wear seat belts until the law required it, how many STILL don't? I have been a seat belt advocate since I was a teenager, and I KNOW they saved me from death at least once, and probable serious injury on three other occasions, yet I STILL run into people that insist that they or someone they know would have died if they HAD been wearing seat belts. Are these people any different than Dale Earnhardt that thought HIS way was best, and in his case he had enough real world experience with serious crashes to make a case for it? What about all the people that still smoke, even though they KNOW there's a good chance it will kill them? Are they any less dumb than Dale Earnhardt was?
     
  30. The Nature Boy

    The Nature Boy Stylin and Profilin

    Seat belt adoption is actually fairly high in the one state where it ISN'T mandatory.
     
  31. KTMLew01

    KTMLew01 Team Owner

  32. Zerkfitting

    Zerkfitting Team Owner

    What stuck me about the interview was how Dale told what he thought and had fun doing it with that that sly grin. A big difference between the interview and one done today is that Dale provided information about the car, tires, race decisions; the sponsor mention was secondary.
     
  33. Ventisca

    Ventisca Crew Chief Contributor

  34. ChexOrWrex

    ChexOrWrex Ya gotta wanna

    This is honestly an awful analogy. Yes, those decisions are all incredibly naive and stupid. Relating it back to Dale, he suffered several injuries in the wrecks he walked away from. Lest we forget when he passed out in the car during pace laps at Darlington (slamming the wall doing so), more than likely due to undiagnosed concussions that caused scars on the brain preventing proper signal from synapse to synapse. Doctors at the time said they could not conclude why he passed out, and he went racing the next week. “Common sense” right? Even other drivers were concerned racing around him and for his own safety. Especially at larger speedways.
     
  35. Formerjackman

    Formerjackman Team Owner

    Why do you think it's an awful analogy? There is overwhelming scientific and real world studies that show that seat belts make driving safer, and yet some people have to be brought to it kicking and screaming because either they don't like the "feel" or they are using anecdotal evidence from the one case in a thousand where the safety device MIGHT have done more harm than good. How is that ANY different than what Earnhardt was doing?
     
  36. Spotter22

    Spotter22 Team Owner

    Wasting your breath, he thinks DE was a dumb redneck
     
  37. ChexOrWrex

    ChexOrWrex Ya gotta wanna

    If you want to add that these people are in a line of work where serious injury and death are an extreme likelihood every day and have watched people they love get mamed or killed due to ignoring safety recommendations, then they themselves voluntarily ignore those same recommendations becuase they are still holier than thou - sure.

    You are entitled to your incorrect assumption.

    I said it before, but you wouldn’t know. I have incredible respect for Dale’s impact on the sport. Just was astonished at his ignorance in key areas and how his flaws are glossed over by revisionists that paint him to be a saint in every aspect of life - just because it’s DALE.

    @aunty dive ’s single comment sums it up well.
     
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  38. Spotter22

    Spotter22 Team Owner

    My "assumption" is dead on the money

    Your words- " He was ignorant and stupid, simply stated. Go ahead and try to crawfish outta that.
     
  39. StandOnIt

    StandOnIt Farm Truck

    Seems like your perception is the problem and you are doing your best to do the opposite. Facts are flaws and all, he has 7 championships, was one hell of a personality in the sport, was instrumental in building Nascar and a one of a kind individual.
     
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  40. dpkimmel2001

    dpkimmel2001 Team Owner

    Was a fan of Earnhardt's shortly after his rookie season. Never really thought about him as a father or a husband and what those traits may have been. At least, not any more than I think of any drivers in that manner. Looked at him as a hard racer that kept me glued to the sport for years. Sure, he was set in his ways just like everyone else. Some liked him, some hated him. He made a memorable mark on this sport and his passing along with many others have progressed safety forward in this sport. It took his death for many to wake up. Almost 20 years later and he's still stirring emotion. He's probably got a big ass grin on his face right now because people still can't stop talking about him. The guy paid his dues IMO. RIP Dale. Still missed like hell by this race fan.
     
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