Did Elliot Manipulate the Ending of the Race?

ChexOrWrex said:
I mean, he kinda did. They were both racing for the win with like what, 3 laps left or something? He pushed too hard and totally lost it. Like I said earlier, he deserved an ass whoopin for that kinda move the same way Harvick deserved one for his.
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He was already pissed at Joey, and decided that he didn't mind using him up. I agree it was a dick move, but Joey was not a "random" victim.
 
When Chase doored Hamlin at Phoenix following Martinsville and gave him a flat, it also affected the outcome of that race and it also sent Hamlin packing from the playoffs and manipulated that as well. Oops.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
When Chase doored Hamlin at Phoenix following Martinsville and gave him a flat, it also affected the outcome of that race and it also sent Hamlin packing from the playoffs and manipulated that as well. Oops.
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Chase suckered Denny into driving HIMSELF into the wall, and then his team was too dumb to pit before the tire went down. Denny knocked Chase out of the playoffs and Martinsville, so it was quid pro quo.
 
AdoubleU24 said:
No. He put a finger square in big bad Harvick's face and it wasn't until there were 5 or 6 guys in between them that Harv decided he wanted to rip someone's head off. I guess those feelings subsided when it was only Mr. white polo standing next to him in the garage area.
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Are you actually suggesting that Harvick was afraid of Chase?
 
ChexOrWrex said:










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Great examples of many "running over him." If he's not taking it, why does it continue to happen? ....and I'm not sure that any of this is anything more than folktale. The good guy fighting for good against evil. Moving. He knows his brand, and he is good with it.
 
BobbyFord said:
Championships stopped being meaningful decades ago. Update your calendar.
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I'd be careful about projecting your take on the matter onto those that actually compete for them. I agree 100% that the criteria to choose a champion is not what it should be, but everyone is competing under the same rules, and I don't think you would find a single driver that would share your point of view that they are meaningless. I think Denny would do almost anything to have a Cup title.
 
Dr_B_UNC said:
JGR sure as hell made a living off it the last 3 or 4 years. Dennis, Kyle, and Martin have all flat dumped Chase while he was leading or charging to an inevitable lead.

Edit: OK, I'll cut MTJ some slack. He didn't dump Chase, just expected him to roll over and back out even though ol' Martin wasn't clear. You know, Martin's MO.
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Okay, JGR obsessed with Chase. Got it. Come on man.
 
Formerjackman said:
I'd be careful about projecting your take on the matter onto those that actually compete for them. I agree 100% that the criteria to choose a champion is not what it should be, but everyone is competing under the same rules, and I don't think you would find a single driver that would share your point of view that they are meaningless. I think Denny would do almost anything to have a Cup title.
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IMO, Winning races on a regular basis has far more credibility than a NASCAR cartoon championship.
 
Dr_B_UNC said:
He was indeed faster and still couldn’t get by Chase. Chase drove a perfect line, and Harv is the one who blew a fuse and lost his car. (I’m talking pre-incident) When Chase washed the leader up to the wall in 3 here last spring y’all lost your everlovin’ minds. Oh well, keep moving those goal posts. Harv is just pouting because he knows Chase got the best of him and that he failed in his attempt to wreck Larson. On to Vegas!
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Even when Chase loses, he wins. Harvick wasn't trying to take Chase out, but it doesn't matter because it was Chase. So his "rough driving actions" (@Formerjackman) were justified because it was Chase. Okay. I am making this too difficult. If it's Chase it's okay. The dumbest ass thing is that he helped the guy who will likely kick his ass for the title. Stupid. Last check, the 5 doesn't need help....but again, it's Chase.....and he is a great teammate in addition to being a great human being and an all around gift to society. This is the narrative that is nauseating.
 
Revman said:
Even when Chase loses, he wins. Harvick wasn't trying to take Chase out, but it doesn't matter because it was Chase. So his "rough driving actions" (@Formerjackman) were justified because it was Chase. Okay. I am making this too difficult. If it's Chase it's okay. The dumbest ass thing is that he helped the guy who will likely kick his ass for the title. Stupid. Last check, the 5 doesn't need help....but again, it's Chase.....and he is a great teammate in addition to being a great human being and an all around gift to society. This is the narrative that is nauseating.
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Judas tapdancing priest Rev... (that's my "clean version" saying I picked up years ago from the Mormon students in dental school ;)) I NEVER SAID Chase won in any way. He got screwed out of a win. Again. It happens. I DID thoroughly enjoy his revenge on Harv and how devious and subtle it was. He didn't go charging in and dump him, he did just enough to screw Harv back. I have condemned Chase when warranted, such as the really bad move against Logano last year. Logano did EXACTLY what Chase did in return, park it in front of him to take away a line and win while laps down. Anyway, you clearly cannot be rational when Chase is involved. Just as I/we do not give JGR an inch of slack when they're in a pickle.

Oh, and Larson is reaching the final 4 by default anyway. 5 more points means all of Jack and S*** right now, so Chase wasn't helping him win the title. I'm starting to wonder if the nausea you feel when someone compliments Chase in ANY way is the same we feel when they fawn over what a strong Christian Joe Gibbs is...
 
Dr_B_UNC said:
Judas tapdancing priest Rev... (that's my "clean version" saying I picked up years ago from the Mormon students in dental school ;)) I NEVER SAID Chase won in any way. He got screwed out of a win. Again. It happens. I DID thoroughly enjoy his revenge on Harv and how devious and subtle it was. He didn't go charging in and dump him, he did just enough to screw Harv back. I have condemned Chase when warranted, such as the really bad move against Logano last year. Logano did EXACTLY what Chase did in return, park it in front of him to take away a line and win while laps down. Anyway, you clearly cannot be rational when Chase is involved. Just as I/we do not give JGR an inch of slack when they're in a pickle.

Oh, and Larson is reaching the final 4 by default anyway. 5 more points means all of Jack and S*** right now, so Chase wasn't helping him win the title. I'm starting to wonder if the nausea you feel when someone compliments Chase in ANY way is the same we feel when they fawn over what a strong Christian Joe Gibbs is...
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You a bingo guy, too?
 
Revman said:
No words. Just going to leave this here. Chase Elliott might be the finest man ever born unto this world.
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I'm not implying that at all. What I'm saying is that nearly every situation where Chase has been involved in a controversial incident, he was either the perceived "victim" of somebody else, or responding to being a "victim". You and I can argue all day along about whether Chase's point of view on those incidents is valid or not, I'm just trying to point out what HIS motivation is. I don't recall much talk ANYWHERE of Chase being a guy that is going out looking for trouble. When he responds on track, it is because he feel he is justified in taking that action based on something else that happened. Once again, you don't have to agree with his version of events. He felt he owed Harvick a payback for some on the track incidents, so he did. He didn't just pick a fight with Harvick for the thrill of it.
 
Formerjackman said:
I'm not implying that at all. What I'm saying is that nearly every situation where Chase has been involved in a controversial incident, he was either the perceived "victim" of somebody else, or responding to being a "victim". You and I can argue all day along about whether Chase's point of view on those incidents is valid or not, I'm just trying to point out what HIS motivation is. I don't recall much talk ANYWHERE of Chase being a guy that is going out looking for trouble. When he responds on track, it is because he feel he is justified in taking that action based on something else that happened. Once again, you don't have to agree with his version of events. He felt he owed Harvick a payback for some on the track incidents, so he did. He didn't just pick a fight with Harvick for the thrill of it.
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None of Harvick’s teammates are a threat for the cartoon championship.
Maybe they take Elliott’s line away in the next few races when it matters.
 
Snappy D said:
It’s wild you all are still arguing about this in multiple threads while also filling up the RacingForums.com Bingo card multiple times. I think I had Bingo 2 hours after the race ended Saturday night
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Can you imagine if he'd actually post live during a race with us?
 
Revman said:
Okay, JGR obsessed with Chase. Got it. Come on man.
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Did I say obsessed? All I said that JGR became a common denominator in the math of someone taking Chase out of a win instead of just beating him. Once is a freak thing. Twice is coincidence. Three times? Well... (And like I said, I give MTJ some slack because he was just really aggressive and tried to slide job ol' Clyde, and Clyde didn't lift. "Not clear, Jackass!")
 
Revman said:
Are you actually suggesting that Harvick was afraid of Chase?
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Every time we saw Chase in the whole aftermath, he was alone and without protective gear. Harv either had a helmet or 3, 4 people with him at all times. You tell me.
 
Dr_B_UNC said:
Every time we saw Chase in the whole aftermath, he was alone and without protective gear. Harv either had a helmet or 3, 4 people with him at all times. You tell me.
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A hat won’t stop you from getting your ass kicked. Have you ever been in a fight?
 
This thread is bordering on posthumous equine abuse. If only we had practice to talk about in a couple days!

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Formerjackman said:
I'm not implying that at all. What I'm saying is that nearly every situation where Chase has been involved in a controversial incident, he was either the perceived "victim" of somebody else, or responding to being a "victim". You and I can argue all day along about whether Chase's point of view on those incidents is valid or not, I'm just trying to point out what HIS motivation is. I don't recall much talk ANYWHERE of Chase being a guy that is going out looking for trouble. When he responds on track, it is because he feel he is justified in taking that action based on something else that happened. Once again, you don't have to agree with his version of events. He felt he owed Harvick a payback for some on the track incidents, so he did. He didn't just pick a fight with Harvick for the thrill of it.
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That isn't true. It's just that there is a magnifying lens on it that's influenced by his brand and his marketability.

I'm going to make a simple case that I made earlier. Chase races hard. He always has. He's aggressive. He's not dirty. I'm not saying that. But he's an aggressive driver. He's a young champion aggressive driver who also happens to be the most popular driver in the field. Contact is going to happen. Fights are going to happen. Sometimes it's racing incidents. Sometimes it isn't. Bristol is one of those cases where it was a racing incident. Now my take is that Elliot fans operating him as the victim and Harvick the perpetrator. But really it was just a high pressure moment and intense track racing. And frustration Chase had towards Harvick boiled over and exploded in this particular case. Nothing wrong with that. I think what most are saying is that Kevin didn't get into him intentionally and didn't deliberately run him over. And for what it's worth, Chase may even agree with that considering him saying that whether it was intentional or not doesn't matter. This incident wasn't about Bristol. It was about whatever beef already exists. Harvick didn't intend to get into him. Elliot seems to be aware that that might be the case, but at that point he doesn't care.

Some of his fans, like Chex, have called it like it is and acknowledge that Chase is without sin.

What Rev (and admitly me) are challenging is the idea that to some of Chase's fans, every time there's an issue, he's the victim. Sometimes he is. Other times, it's just hard racing.

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jaqua19 said:
That isn't true. It's just that there is a magnifying lens on it that's influenced by his brand and his marketability.

I'm going to make a simple case that I made earlier. Chase races hard. He always has. He's aggressive. He's not dirty. I'm not saying that. But he's an aggressive driver. He's a young champion aggressive driver who also happens to be the most popular driver in the field. Contact is going to happen. Fights are going to happen. Sometimes it's racing incidents. Sometimes it isn't. Bristol is one of those cases where it was a racing incident. Now my take is that Elliot fans operating him as the victim and Harvick the perpetrator. But really it was just a high pressure moment and intense track racing. And frustration Chase had towards Harvick boiled over and exploded in this particular case. Nothing wrong with that. I think what most are saying is that Kevin didn't get into him intentionally and didn't deliberately run him over. And for what it's worth, Chase may even agree with that considering him saying that whether it was intentional or not doesn't matter. This incident wasn't about Bristol. It was about whatever beef already exists. Harvick didn't intend to get into him. Elliot seems to be aware that that might be the case, but at that point he doesn't care.

Some of his fans, like Chex, have called it like it is and acknowledge that Chase is without sin.

What Rev (and admitly me) are challenging is the idea that to some of Chase's fans, every time there's an issue, he's the victim. Sometimes he is. Other times, it's just hard racing.

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Isn't***

Sorry if that wasn't clear Chex, I was tipping my cap to ya.

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Revman said:
Are you actually suggesting that Harvick was afraid of Chase?
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I wasn't suggesting anything, I was answering your question of whether or not Chase got out of his car, called peoples names and stomped off.

Look, absolutely none of these guys are intimidating. None. They aren't fighters, and when they try to be they look like uncoordinated morons. So no I don't think any of these guys are afraid of one another and there's no reason to be. That being said, it was just weird that Harvick waited until people were in between them to start getting all feisty, and then proclaim he wants to rip someone's head off after the scrum has been completely broken up. Rip if off then, Kevin...rip it off.
 
jaqua19 said:
That isn't true. It's just that there is a magnifying lens on it that's influenced by his brand and his marketability.

I'm going to make a simple case that I made earlier. Chase races hard. He always has. He's aggressive. He's not dirty. I'm not saying that. But he's an aggressive driver. He's a young champion aggressive driver who also happens to be the most popular driver in the field. Contact is going to happen. Fights are going to happen. Sometimes it's racing incidents. Sometimes it isn't. Bristol is one of those cases where it was a racing incident. Now my take is that Elliot fans operating him as the victim and Harvick the perpetrator. But really it was just a high pressure moment and intense track racing. And frustration Chase had towards Harvick boiled over and exploded in this particular case. Nothing wrong with that. I think what most are saying is that Kevin didn't get into him intentionally and didn't deliberately run him over. And for what it's worth, Chase may even agree with that considering him saying that whether it was intentional or not doesn't matter. This incident wasn't about Bristol. It was about whatever beef already exists. Harvick didn't intend to get into him. Elliot seems to be aware that that might be the case, but at that point he doesn't care.

Some of his fans, like Chex, have called it like it is and acknowledge that Chase is without sin.

What Rev (and admitly me) are challenging is the idea that to some of Chase's fans, every time there's an issue, he's the victim. Sometimes he is. Other times, it's just hard racing.

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I think you are misunderstanding me. I'm not saying Chase is a victim, I'm telling you HE feels like he has been victimized and responds as such. Doesn't mean he's right, doesn't mean he's wrong. You are exactly right about Saturday night's incident. Taken in and by itself, I don't think Chase reacts at all, but in his mind Kevin has taken advantage of him on more than one occasion, so he finally had enough. Honestly, I am not familiar with the details of ANY of these supposed incidents with Kevin, so I am not in a position to judge them and won't. Intentional or not, it can be argued that Kevin cost Chase a chance to win the race, so Chase made sure Kevin didn't win the race. I'm sorry, but I just don't have a problem with that. He didn't wreck him , he didn't cause a caution and foul up somebody else's strategy, he didn't get anybody's else's car torn up, so it's all good as far as I am concerned. That's MY side of the story, if you disagree, so be it.
 
Formerjackman said:
I think you are misunderstanding me. I'm not saying Chase is a victim, I'm telling you HE feels like he has been victimized and responds as such. Doesn't mean he's right, doesn't mean he's wrong. You are exactly right about Saturday night's incident. Taken in and by itself, I don't think Chase reacts at all, but in his mind Kevin has taken advantage of him on more than one occasion, so he finally had enough. Honestly, I am not familiar with the details of ANY of these supposed incidents with Kevin, so I am not in a position to judge them and won't. Intentional or not, it can be argued that Kevin cost Chase a chance to win the race, so Chase made sure Kevin didn't win the race. I'm sorry, but I just don't have a problem with that. He didn't wreck him , he didn't cause a caution and foul up somebody else's strategy, he didn't get anybody's else's car torn up, so it's all good as far as I am concerned. That's MY side of the story, if you disagree, so be it.
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Nope, I agree here.

Chase feels justified and is upkeeping his own boundary. Intentional or not, "I'm not tolerating it anymore". This incident was a trigger to that.

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2 Sweet said:
Some of you are wayyyyyy too concerned with this imaginary "brand" and "narrative" nonsense.
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To me, Chase doesn't seem like the kind of guy that is all that concerned about his "brand' or what the"narrative" is. That's one of the reason I like him.
 
Spotter22 said:
Faster than Chase on old tires? Hardly. If so pull up and move by him, Harvick isnt one to just "sit" behind a slower car
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Faster at the time of the incident when Chase lost air in his left front tire trying to make a third groove between a lapped car and Harvick on the bottom
 
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