F1 2023 News/Misc.

FLRacingFan said:
Twice as many, even. The Saudi GP had an audience of 1.523M on ESPN. I could’ve never imagined that.
Click to expand...
I mean mathematically it makes sense as the US has 330 million people to Germanys 83 million. Or .46% of the US population vs .90% of the German watched.
 
It's funny to me to see people argue that Red Bull's dominance will kill the sport instead of having people say things like "Wow, Max Verstappen is unbelievable" and buy his merchandise.
 
virtualbalboa said:
It's funny to me to see people argue that Red Bull's dominance will kill the sport instead of having people say things like "Wow, Max Verstappen is unbelievable" and buy his merchandise.
Click to expand...
there is little drama to a race when you know who the winner will be before the green flies. Kind of takes the word "race" out of the equation.
 
West said:
there is little drama to a race when you know who the winner will be before the green flies. Kind of takes the word "race" out of the equation.
Click to expand...
People look back on the Prost/Senna domination with awe. People look back on the Vettel years with awe. Eventually people will probably look back on this new Red Bull era with the same kind of awe.

Personally, I'm enjoying history unfolding. I love a good race, but I appreciate the excellence we are seeing.
 
West said:
there is little drama to a race when you know who the winner will be before the green flies. Kind of takes the word "race" out of the equation.
Click to expand...
That's how racing and competition is sometimes. Guys used to win NASCAR races by laps, not tenths. A lot of racing fans have convinced themselves that what sells is close, managed competition, and that's not true at all. The more people have attempted to manage competition and make racing closer, we see nothing but decreasing attendance and TV ratings by and large. People want to be in the presence of excellence, and Max Verstappen is excellence personified in racing.
 
I'm sure the diehards would watch even if there was only 1 team on the grid. Sadly, that's not how a sport functions ...
" Further healthy ratings in the 1999 season followed, before figures took a nose-dive for 2000 and the start of Michael Schumacher’s dominance. From that point onwards, the viewing figures dropped each and every year until the emergence of Lewis Hamilton in 2007"
All this stuff exists due to it's ratings, no ratings no racing
 
West said:
I'm sure the diehards would watch even if there was only 1 team on the grid. Sadly, that's not how a sport functions ...
" Further healthy ratings in the 1999 season followed, before figures took a nose-dive for 2000 and the start of Michael Schumacher’s dominance. From that point onwards, the viewing figures dropped each and every year until the emergence of Lewis Hamilton in 2007"
Click to expand...
People are buying Lewis Hamilton merchandise because Lewis Hamilton is the winningest driver in the history of F1. People are buying Max Verstappen merchandise because he is currently the best driver in the best car and is dominating. Joey Logano is a two-time NASCAR Cup champion who never won the most races in the season he won the title, nor did he have the best average finish, and people basically don't care about Joey Logano. Is there a lesson to be learned? I would suggest there is. I don't know about you, but when it comes to stick and ball sports, I tend to see the people who sell the most merch and are the most popular also being the best, whether it be Babe Ruth or Wayne Gretzky. If someone can show me some sports where heavily managed competition and enforced "close finishes" lead to greater commercial appeal, I'm all ears.
 
To me, the best and most exciting sport stories are the ones where a game is won on the last play or race won on the last lap. Getting excited about predictable one sided Blowouts is a very strange concept and misses the whole point of competition.
 
West said:
To me, the best and most exciting sport stories are the ones where a game is won on the last play or race won on the last lap. Getting excited about predictable one sided Blowouts is a very strange concept and misses the whole point of competition.
Click to expand...

First off, you were quoting this, right? https://motorsportbroadcasting.com/2012/05/02/the-ratings-picture-the-verdict-so-far/

Last I checked, Michael Schumacher is not British. Lewis Hamilton and Jenson Button are, however, British, and it would appear that they probably appealed a lot more to Brits than Michael Schumacher when it came to domination. Both also have compelling narratives to sell, and uhh, how did television viewership and popularity in the UK do when Lewis Hamilton was riding high? I mean, domination kills the ratings, right? You should have no problem showing me how interest in F1 in the UK took a nose dive because an arguable GOAT candidate was racking up title after title.

Anyways, back to the topic at hand. Yes, people do like it when the game is won on the last play and those games are memorable. You know what hurts that? When every game comes down to the last play. Because then, every game is the same game. People like winners. They like Tom Brady. They like Michael Jordan. They like Lionel Messi. Mike Tyson wasn't a superstar in the 1980s because he was beatable, he was a superstar because he was considered practically unbeatable. Who do people love in racing? The masses don't yearn for Roberto Moreno, they love Ayrton Senna (because he won), they love Dale Earnhardt (because he won), they love Steve Kinser (because he won) and they love Richard Petty (because he won). Not only that, winning at the last second means a lot more when it's the underdog doing it against a dominant force of nature. The USA beating the USSR in the 1980 Winter Olympics wouldn't have been the same as if the USSR was just a middling hockey team. That's why none of us ever think back fondly or memorably about the fact that we have faced Iran in two World Cups. People love to see Cinderella win, but you have to have the conditions for a Cinderella first.

To put it another way: Do people talk about Tiger Woods because of his amazing come from behind wins, or do they talk about the time he won the Masters by 12 strokes?
 
kkfan91 said:
I mean mathematically it makes sense as the US has 330 million people to Germanys 83 million. Or .46% of the US population vs .90% of the German watched.
Click to expand...
True, although it’s quite a significant turnaround as Germany has a much richer F1 heritage than the USA and has traditionally had much more interest there.

However, Germany's Bild newspaper has done an analysis of the television audience numbers this year, comparing it to the average of 6.29 million viewers who watched RTL's coverage in 2010.
Click to expand...
www.f1-fansite.com

F1 has eight times less German TV audience than 10 years ago

Oct.12 - F1 CEO Stefano Domenicali's claims that the category is "more alive than ever" is not borne out by television statistics.
www.f1-fansite.com www.f1-fansite.com

That’s about what NASCAR Cup races also averaged here in 2010. Around the same time, F1 in America was getting a fraction of that - 2012 averaged 414k across FOX/SPEED, 2011 348k on SPEED. It’s a huge shift in that regard.
 
Doc Austin said:
Anyone seen any of the spicey articles this week regarding Max vrs Chico?
Click to expand...
Anything I'm exposed to is by accident through Reddit. Besides 2007 McLaren, I haven't seen a more obvious future driver lineup implosion in a long time. Red Bull has an armada of kids to put in Checo's seat to be Max's sparring partner and it's only a question of when and where Checo can land (hopefully somewhere better than Haas)...
 
virtualbalboa said:
Red Bull has an armada of kids to put in Checo's seat to be Max's sparring partner and it's only a question of when and where Checo can land (hopefully somewhere better than Haas)...
Click to expand...
When you look at how fast Gasly and Albon flamed out of the Red Bull ride, it makes sense to find a way to make thing continue to work with Checo. Red Bull could bring in another young hot shot and he could flame out too.

What you have right now with Perez is a perfect #2 who can win races when the #1 falters. The problem is, Checo is in it for himself because he's had a whole career of being a team player. Now in a winning car, I don't expect Perez to back off. He's not as quick as Max, but he's close enough to take advantage of things when Verstappen has a fumble.

Red Bull has the unbeatable car right now, so the last thing they need is a big fight between it's drivers. Ferrari threw away the 82 championship by pitting their drivers against each other. The Williams duo stole so many points off each other that they got pipped by Prost. Even Red Bull almost threw away Vettel's first championship by letting him and Webber battle it out to the end with Fernando right on their heels. It's great to have that unbeatable advantage, but if you can't control your drivers they will find a way to waste that.

Checo is quite capable of squeezing his teammate into a wall if he feels like it, so let's hope we see that at least once this year just for the reaction from trash talk Horner, violent criminal Jos and looney tunes Marko. I think the hope of a good championship battle is probably off the table, but we can always hope the Red Bull drivers destabilize their own operation enough to give Aston and maybe Ferrari a look in. A few spicy take outs and the standard Red Bull trash talk could make what looks like a boring season turn out to be amusing.

Let the trash talking commence.......... https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/formula-1/jos-verstappen-max-sergio-perez-29516773
 
Doc Austin said:
When you look at how fast Gasly and Albon flamed out of the Red Bull ride, it makes sense to find a way to make thing continue to work with Checo. Red Bull could bring in another young hot shot and he could flame out too.

What you have right now with Perez is a perfect #2 who can win races when the #1 falters. The problem is, Checo is in it for himself because he's had a whole career of being a team player. Now in a winning car, I don't expect Perez to back off. He's not as quick as Max, but he's close enough to take advantage of things when Verstappen has a fumble.

Red Bull has the unbeatable car right now, so the last thing they need is a big fight between it's drivers. Ferrari threw away the 82 championship by pitting their drivers against each other. The Williams duo stole so many points off each other that they got pipped by Prost. Even Red Bull almost threw away Vettel's first championship by letting him and Webber battle it out to the end with Fernando right on their heels. It's great to have that unbeatable advantage, but if you can't control your drivers they will find a way to waste that.

Checo is quite capable of squeezing his teammate into a wall if he feels like it, so let's hope we see that at least once this year just for the reaction from trash talk Horner, violent criminal Jos and looney tunes Marko. I think the hope of a good championship battle is probably off the table, but we can always hope the Red Bull drivers destabilize their own operation enough to give Aston and maybe Ferrari a look in. A few spicy take outs and the standard Red Bull trash talk could make what looks like a boring season turn out to be amusing.

Let the trash talking commence.......... https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/formula-1/jos-verstappen-max-sergio-perez-29516773
Click to expand...
Albon was in position to win a couple of times in the Red Bull only to get wiped out by Lewis Hamilton on both occasions. Even his departure was more or less a situation as best I can tell of "Hey this guy with lots of Mexican billionaire money who is also really good wants to race for us so sorry?" Now things are different and if Checo doesn't like being #2 (he clearly does not) he's gonna get his walking papers should he not start playing nice (spoiler: no one ever has gone that route).

I think we might see what you want and I expect the resulting drama to be nothing less than delicious for those who enjoy drama. I personally just feel sorta bad for Checo. I think Verstappen is probably the faster of the two in generally ideal conditions, but Checo is miles better when it comes to driving a loose car and much better at passing. Perez is probably never winning a world title unless the stars align, but he's at least created excitement again in Mexico for the series and he's exciting. Plus he's the key to this season being more than simply "Hey, can Alpine continue to be the best midpack team if we argue Aston Martin is a peer of Mercedes and Ferrari?"

Also FWIW months of battles between Ferrari, Mercedes, and the gruesome twosome of Alonso and Stroll is 100% what I'm interested in seeing. I also recently went in and donated to get access to the posts here: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/F1DataAnalysis. It's all the analysis I was working on doing except someone with better credentials did it for me. Based on the early season numbers, one thing that really sticks out to me is how fast the Haas car is compared to much of the grid. Their average top speed is up there with Verstappen's at the tippy top, and that's gonna pay off big when we get to the low downforce circuits like Monza and Spa. The Aston Martin is getting around the track fine, but the top speed is low. I'm thinking they're gonna be in play at Monaco if Alonso can get one big screaming lap out of it.
 
virtualbalboa said:
I think we might see what you want and I expect the resulting drama to be nothing less than delicious for those who enjoy drama.
Click to expand...
Red Bull is nothing but entertaining. You got trash talk Horner, violent criminal Jos and crazy Uncle Helmet running their PR department so what else could we expect but drama?

virtualbalboa said:
I personally just feel sorta bad for Checo.
Click to expand...
Horner has once again said his drivers they can race, so now they are stuck with that. That could actually be a good thing for Checo.
virtualbalboa said:
Also FWIW months of battles between Ferrari, Mercedes, and the gruesome twosome of Alonso and Stroll is 100% what I'm interested in seeing.
Click to expand...
I want to see Mercedes get back in the game.
 
Doc Austin said:
Horner has once again said his drivers they can race, so now they are stuck with that. That could actually be a good thing for Checo.
Click to expand...
I think a lot of people know in their souls that Rosberg was slower than Hamilton over the long haul, but in the short term, for one particular year, it all worked out. I would love....LOVE to see Sergio Perez bring a WDC to Mexico while Verstappen is spitting mad.
 
Doc Austin said:
That can happen when you lose a Schumacher, a Vettel, or don't have a German Grand Prix. Schumacher will be back, presumably in a Mercedes, and F1 will regain lost ground.
Click to expand...
The decline since the early 2000s wasn't stopped by Vettel's or Rosberg's titles. Mick's debut season was the first one where all but four races were on Sky so it's difficult to estimate if he had any effect on the ratings but I suspect it wasn't huge. If he comes back in a Merc and competes for wins popularity might increase a bit again but right now we don't know when and if that's going to happen.
I guess if it wasn't for some beef between Mick and Günther, Mick would still be in the Haas and not Hülkenberg, who I consider a C+ driver at best.

In the link below are the viewing numbers for RTL (free-TV) from 1992 to 2017. The peak was in 2001 with an average of 10,44 million viewers per race. The first big drop came in 2005 when Schumacher remained winless except for Indy, but numbers rebounded the next year only to drop again after Schumi's first retirement. There was an uptick during Vettel's first championship year but Vettel did not create a hype like Schumacher did at all. There was another significant drop when the turbo/hybrid era started. From 2014-2020 (the last year of complete Free-TV coverage) viewership stabilized around 4 million.
rp-online.de

Überblick: Die Einschaltquoten der Formel 1

Die Fernsehübertragungen der Formel 1 haben seit 1992 mal mehr, mal weniger Zuschauer vor die TV-Geräte in Deutschland gelockt.
rp-online.de rp-online.de
virtualbalboa said:
It's funny to me to see people argue that Red Bull's dominance will kill the sport instead of having people say things like "Wow, Max Verstappen is unbelievable" and buy his merchandise.
Click to expand...
Do any people outside of Holland buy Verstappen merch? I don't think I've seen one single person wearing any F1 merch in my life.
People look back at the Prost/Senna battles in awe but that's not the case because McLaren was dominant, its because it was a legendary battle of two completely different characters. 2021 was even better since the two completely different characters also drove different cars, IMO it was the best season ever which greatly helped the F1 hype in the US.
If one guy dominates the entire sport for several years that's not good for the sport. We basically know who'll win the 2023 championship two races into the season.

virtualbalboa said:
Anything I'm exposed to is by accident through Reddit. Besides 2007 McLaren, I haven't seen a more obvious future driver lineup implosion in a long time. Red Bull has an armada of kids to put in Checo's seat to be Max's sparring partner and it's only a question of when and where Checo can land (hopefully somewhere better than Haas)...
Click to expand...
I don't see Yuki or De Vries ever replacing Checo. When De Vries was he was the second external driver in a row to get a Red Bull/AT seat (after Checo).
All the kids in the Junior team are gonna need several more years until they're ready for F1.
I think the media are trying to build up some tension between Max and Checo to keep this season interesting because everyone knows RBR is miles ahead of everyone else. Following last year's Interlagos GP where Max refused to let Checo through it was rumored Checo might soon be replaced by Ricciardo but I never really believed these rumors. It was also alleged that Perez intentionally wrecked his car in qualifying at Monaco so he could secure the pole. I like Checo but I don't see him or anyone else providing a serious challenge to Max in equal equipment. Max is just a pretty damn good race car driver.
 
donthaveanickname said:
I guess if it wasn't for some beef between Mick and Günther, Mick would still be in the Haas and not Hülkenberg, who I consider a C+ driver at best.
Click to expand...
You're probably are right about Haas and Mick. Ralf just won't let it go. You would have thought they would publicly wish each other well, but I haven't seen it. Even Mazepin left with less drama!

You do want to part amiably. You never know who you might need for an opportunity in the future, unless your name is Alonso and you can walk across burnt bridges.

donthaveanickname said:
People look back at the Prost/Senna battles in awe but that's not the case because McLaren was dominant, its because it was a legendary battle of two completely different characters.
Click to expand...
Granted, but it was still one team dominating.

So, maybe my prose failed me so let me try again: People talk about hating domination, so why do people look back at those dominated years and talk about how great it was?

I thought the golden era was the early seventies when you never knew who was going to win. Unfortunately you never knew who was going to die either, so it certainly wasn't a perfect era.

donthaveanickname said:
2021 was even better since the two completely different characters also drove different cars, IMO it was the best season ever which greatly helped the F1 hype in the US.
Click to expand...
I hated how it played out, but it was a hell of a battle.
donthaveanickname said:
If one guy dominates the entire sport for several years that's not good for the sport. We basically know who'll win the 2023 championship two races into the season.
Click to expand...
I guess I could be unhappy that there is domination, but I'm going to feel privileged to see this kind of greatness. Red Bull is probably the last privateer team in F1, so I'm not going to hate on them for taking out the big manufacturers.
 
Doc Austin said:
So, maybe my prose failed me so let me try again: People talk about hating domination, so why do people look back at those dominated years and talk about how great it was?
Click to expand...
Obviously I can only speak for myself but I think most fans don't enjoy domination a lot while it happens unless its someone from their home country. When the dominant era is over they come to appreciate the greatness they have watched unfold but I don't think it brings new fans to the sport at all.
I feel like Vettel's four consecutive titles didn't really receive that much appreciation until his Ferrari years.
 
donthaveanickname said:
Obviously I can only speak for myself but I think most fans don't enjoy domination a lot while it happens unless its someone from their home country.
Click to expand...
That doesn't really come into play for Americans. The last time an American dominated was 1978.

Currently I have the choice of being less than happy with the domination or appreciate the greatness. Behind the Red Bulls the action is pretty intense, so I'm concentrating on that too.
donthaveanickname said:
When the dominant era is over they come to appreciate the greatness they have watched unfold but I don't think it brings new fans to the sport at all.
Click to expand...
We've gotten to the point we expect a great finish and are disappointed by less. Often you get blowouts and people are upset they didn't get a good race. The only way to guarantee a good finish is to manipulate it, kind of like we saw in Abu Dabi in 2021. Better the let the races play out naturally and live with whatever we get.

You can't have a wide open formula like F1 and be surprised when someone ambushes the entire field. In their day, Lotus, Ferrari, Williams, Mclaren had years where they were utterly untouchable. That's how F1 has always been, just part of how it goes and how it's gone for decades.
donthaveanickname said:
I feel like Vettel's four consecutive titles didn't really receive that much appreciation until his Ferrari years.
Click to expand...
Unbelievably, after four championships, Vettel will be remembered more for the kind of man he is than the kind of driver he was.
 
donthaveanickname said:
In the link below are the viewing numbers for RTL (free-TV) from 1992 to 2017. The peak was in 2001 with an average of 10,44 million viewers per race. The first big drop came in 2005 when Schumacher remained winless except for Indy, but numbers rebounded the next year only to drop again after Schumi's first retirement. There was an uptick during Vettel's first championship year but Vettel did not create a hype like Schumacher did at all. There was another significant drop when the turbo/hybrid era started. From 2014-2020 (the last year of complete Free-TV coverage) viewership stabilized around 4 million.
rp-online.de

Überblick: Die Einschaltquoten der Formel 1

Die Fernsehübertragungen der Formel 1 haben seit 1992 mal mehr, mal weniger Zuschauer vor die TV-Geräte in Deutschland gelockt.
rp-online.de rp-online.de
Click to expand...

I don't know enough about German television to have strong takes about this, but I recognize that things aren't always so simple in describing things as "if they had a German star, the ratings would definitely be higher". I'm a huge boxing fan, and I do have some familiarity with German TV ratings and viewership related to that sport. Henry Maske was a big star in Germany - the version of Con Te Partido everyone knows was released as a co-promotion to what was supposed to be his final bout with Virgil Hill (which did something >40% of all TVs in Germany). Parallel to or after his retirement, the biggest draws in Germany weren't necessary German ethnic fighters. You had the Klitschkos, you had Dariusz Michalczewski, you had Felix Sturm, and so on and on. Ethnically German guys ceased to be the big stars, and more often than not, the stars increasingly represented immigrant communities (Poles, Russians, Ukranians, Bosnians, Armenians).

In the case of American F1 fans, there's obviously one ethnic hero winning races with an existing fanbase interested in F1: Sergio Perez and Mexican-Americans.

donthaveanickname said:
Do any people outside of Holland buy Verstappen merch? I don't think I've seen one single person wearing any F1 merch in my life.
Click to expand...

Yeah. For sure. I've absolutely seen it. I know people who own RBR merch.

donthaveanickname said:
People look back at the Prost/Senna battles in awe but that's not the case because McLaren was dominant, its because it was a legendary battle of two completely different characters. 2021 was even better since the two completely different characters also drove different cars, IMO it was the best season ever which greatly helped the F1 hype in the US.
If one guy dominates the entire sport for several years that's not good for the sport. We basically know who'll win the 2023 championship two races into the season.
Click to expand...

I think it depends on whether or not the driver is polarizing to the fans. Floyd Mayweather Jr. was not an exciting fighter. He did not have a single Ring Magazine Fight of the Year. He was, however, and by a large margin, the single biggest star boxing has produced in this century. People both wanted to see him win or lose. If people simply don't care if you compete because, well, you don't interest them, yes, a sport can theoretically fall victim to what happened to the WRC with Sebastian Loeb. As Loeb is still showing up and winning seemingly at will, it would seem that something has gone very wrong with the entire Rally sport's methods for driver development.

donthaveanickname said:
I don't see Yuki or De Vries ever replacing Checo. When De Vries was he was the second external driver in a row to get a Red Bull/AT seat (after Checo).
All the kids in the Junior team are gonna need several more years until they're ready for F1.
I think the media are trying to build up some tension between Max and Checo to keep this season interesting because everyone knows RBR is miles ahead of everyone else. Following last year's Interlagos GP where Max refused to let Checo through it was rumored Checo might soon be replaced by Ricciardo but I never really believed these rumors. It was also alleged that Perez intentionally wrecked his car in qualifying at Monaco so he could secure the pole. I like Checo but I don't see him or anyone else providing a serious challenge to Max in equal equipment. Max is just a pretty damn good race car driver.
Click to expand...

I'm sure that's part of it, but we also have them stakeholders themselves publicly available to ask and they sure seem to all have their own intentions and desires. Red Bull also has too much money invested in their ladder drivers to just let them walk to do Formula E or Super Formula. Someone's going to want to see a return on that expenditure eventually.
 
FLRacingFan said:
I hate this obsession with the Sprint format but this qualifying doesn’t sound too bad. I didn’t like how the sprint race set the grid for Sunday, and single-car qualifying for the sprint could be a nice change of pace compared to knockout qualifying.
Click to expand...
Sprint racing would be more fun if they inverted the field by points.
 
virtualbalboa said:
I can't come up with any good argument against it.
Click to expand...
Inverted grids for sprint races is the one thing they have not tried. Having the field turned inside out would certainly be more interesting than seeing the Red Bulls streak away.

There's a lot of hate towards sprint racing, but in the end it's just another race, just another form of qualifying. The sprint races so far have not been very good because it's flat out all the way and whomever starts up front is probably going to finish that way. Put the fast guys in the back and you'll certainly see some action.

The rules would be the same for everyone so I can't see a reason to complain. At the very least it would be worth trying at least once.
 
He does have a point that a race determined by illegal action should not count, but why didn't he think of that 15 years ago?
 
Reck said:
www.motorsport.com

Massa to look into legal options over 2008 F1 title outcome

www.motorsport.com www.motorsport.com

This is sad/moronic or both. Wow
Click to expand...
It sounds like a goofy title but after reading it it’s pretty bad. Essentially it was just last month that Bernie admitted he and the FIA knew there were some shenanigans involved in the incident and that there was enough to pursue an investigation and potential nullification of the race result but opted not to in order to avoid controversy. It wasn’t until being dropped by Renault midseason 2009 that Piquet Jr. alleged it was a conspiracy publicly and the FIA were forced to investigate.

It’s far too late to do anything with regard to the official title at this point but it’d be interesting to see if he can go after Ecclestone or the FIA in some other manner.
 
FLRacingFan said:
It’s far too late to do anything with regard to the official title at this point but it’d be interesting to see if he can go after Ecclestone or the FIA in some other manner.
Click to expand...
Exactly, hope he gets some $$$ out of this, with a mutual agreenment not to discuss the matter any further.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom