F1 Silverstone Grand Prix

Reck said:
Regarding Hamilton best driver. Period.

Zero business getting a podium let alone a win.
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He's also now within striking distance of the points lead, so we've got a championship again.

I hope Max is ok, and doesn't miss a race. I also hope he comes back a little more respectful of the guys he goes wheel to wheel with.
 
Having a cursory familiarity with this style of racing means knowing that the trailing car is not just allowed to poke a wing under the leading car at any moment in bonzai fashion to see what happens and demand "room". No, the leader is granted the racing line into the corner. The stewards judged the fault in the incident correctly, as it was obvious. The penalty issued seems hollow, but Hamilton overcame it and drove an excellent race from there.

One could expect Verstappen to pull that kind of move, as he has several times before. Hamilton has given up any claim of higher ground and racing like a veteran multi world champion.
 
DewChaser988 said:
Max was in front of him period
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Not when they got to the apex. They were wheel to wheel at the turn in point and Hamilton tried to get out of the way. Max just didn't give him any room and tried to drive over top of him like he wasn't even there.. Surprise.

Don't believe me. Watch it again. There was nowhere for Hamilton to go. max took every option away by trying to slam the door on a car that was already there.
 
gnomesayin said:
Hamilton has given up any claim of higher ground and racing like a veteran multi world champion.
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This is nonsense.

It's like you haven't watched the early races where Max chopped, blocked and ran Hamilton off the road on multiple occasions. In all those occasions Hamilton wisely backed out of it. There is a time when you say no more.
 
Reck said:
This is nonsense.

It's like you haven't watched the early races where Max chopped, blocked and ran Hamilton off the road on multiple occasions. In all those occasions Hamilton wisely backed out of it. There is a time when you say no more.
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As I mentioned, Verstappen has a long history of questionable driving and a deserved reputation for it. My assessment of the incident isn't about rooting for him.

Hamilton was at fault today. It was not a wise racing move in any way, and could have easily been calamitous for him instead.
 
Mispeedway15 said:
Hamilton really on one today. Flying out there. That wreck though in a points battle like this makes me feel really uneasy. Shouldn’t be going full send on a flat out corner like that, Max probably was concussed from that incident.

Even in NASCAR that’s going to get you punched afterwards on a non short track. If you made that move at Michigan it’d be thought of the same way
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They sure as hell upped the ante today. Imola was touch and go, Spain more unforgiving but this one is pretty damn big. Too early to say whether or not a precedent has been set, but I’ll say the first three corners at the Hungaroring are usually ripe for conflict. It’s probably good for these two teams there’s only one race before the summer break to cool off a little.

How much this affects Max’s PU component counts will be really important too. And including Imola, Hamilton has now benefited from the red flag free-for-all twice already. Maybe I’ve watched too much NASCAR but the fact that you can fix and change damn near anything on the car during a red doesn’t compute for me.
 
gnomesayin said:
Having a cursory familiarity with this style of racing means knowing that the trailing car is not just allowed to poke a wing under the leading car at any moment in bonzai fashion to see what happens and demand "room".
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Actually, the rules say if a car can get a wing inside the rear time, you must leave a space. All the time you must leave a space. Don't believe me. Look it up.
gnomesayin said:
The stewards judged the fault in the incident correctly, as it was obvious. The penalty issued seems hollow, but Hamilton overcame it and drove an excellent race from there.
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They had to do something, and since they don't usually know what that is, they blame the guy who kept going. It's not like it mattered. Hamilton 25, Max zero.

But, today's lesson was as plain as day. If you want to drive dirty, your ass busts the same way as mine does, so if you try it again, it's going to be you again.
 
Reck said:
This is nonsense.

It's like you haven't watched the early races where Max chopped, blocked and ran Hamilton off the road on multiple occasions. In all those occasions Hamilton wisely backed out of it. There is a time when you say no more.
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Hell yeah.
 
It's so pathetic how Red Bull and Horner and some fans are already trying to guilt trip Lewis by saying how he "put" someone in the hospital.
 
gnomesayin said:
As I mentioned, Verstappen has a long history of questionable driving and a deserved reputation for it.
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Then he doesn't exactly deserve any slack now, does he? Max also carved Hamilton up every time he got close today, so Max had it coming. After half a lap you just knew Max would cause an "accident" before he gave up the lead.

gnomesayin said:
It was not a wise racing move in any way, and could have easily been calamitous for him instead.
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Lewis had a run and he was level in the braking zone. We see drivers pull that move off all the time, but this was different because max was going to slam the door no matter what, even if it caused an accident. Al Max had to do was play fair and they would have gotten through ok.

If Hamilton did anything wrong, it was he trusted the wrong guy. Like you say, Max has a long history of this stuff, so what do you do? Do you just say "Oh, hell. We wanted second plane anyway?" Or, do get alongside and if he takes himself out that's his problem?
 
Reck said:
It's so pathetic how Red Bull and Horner and some fans are already trying to guilt trip Lewis by saying how he "put" someone in the hospital.
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Max put Max in the hospital. You cant drive like a dumbass your whole life and not get hurt.

I hope max is ok. I also hope he learned something from it.
 
Doc Austin said:
Then he doesn't exactly deserve any slack now, does he? Max also carved Hamilton up every time he got close today, so Max had it coming. After half a lap you just knew Max would cause an "accident" before he gave up the lead.
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We're talking past each other because IMO you're judging based on your opinions of the two drivers, and I'm discussing the incident today. I don't really have a dog in the fight. Do I feel sorry for Max? I certainly hope for his physical well being and speedy recovery, but not exactly in terms of racing karma. He's done worse.

No amount of previous blocking and such justifies or rises to the level of the high speed contact initiated by Hamilton. As I implied, it's a move that could reasonably be expected of an immature Verstappen. If he'd done it, I would criticize it.

I'm not buying any of the excuses for why Hamilton just had to do it, and why it is incumbent on the race leader to back down for him to come through.
 
Allow me to demonstrate the absurdity of this whole thing. All Max had to do was leave Hamilton a little more room and he still had almost the entire race distance to either find a way around or do the over/under. Max also may have been able to keep the lead, so it's not unfair to say he threw the entire weekend away just being stubborn and not giving an inch.

It doesn't matter who is right or wrong when you are sitting in a wrecked car with your breath knocked out of you. Right or wrong, you just threw away a bucket of points, and let your rival run off with maximum points. Does it matter who was at fault, or were you the dumbass for not giving the the other guy a little room?

Essentially all Max had to do was survive that single moment and he would have most likely still found a way to win. Instead, we're going to win the race, right here, right now, on the second lap, that is. So Max gambled everything that on that instant, and threw away any chance he had to first, score points, and second maybe find a way to win anyway.

Really insane performance from a guy who has already proven himself to be wild and dangerous. After a season of pushing Hamilton over the curbs and swerving at him at every opportunity, no one could blame Lewis for simply showing Max you can't play him like that. I think Lewis tried to get out, but Max didn't even leave him enough room to do that.

From a championship standpoint, absolutely dumbest performance from a points leader ever. Ever.
 
And all Hamilton had to do to avoid it was cede the corner to the car in front of him, as happens on most every lap of every race when a clean pass isn't possible. He didn't, and got the better end of it today. Next time he's leading and someone has the nerve to do it to him, the reactions will be curious.
 
Doc Austin said:
All Max had to do was leave Hamilton a little more room and he still had almost the entire race distance to either find a way around or do the over/under.
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So...kind of like what Hamilton did in Spain and Portugal when Max took the lead from him off the line?

That said, each driver has their own approach so you cant count on drivers being nice. Last thing I'm going to say about this whole thing is that being the punching bag in any sport doesn't net you results....or respect.
 
Hamilton should have been made to go to the back. If anything F1 needs a tap rule & a no work during red flag rule
 


I can sorta snicker at this, as I can envision Max being in Lewis' position and doing exactly the same. "I had a run."

However, instead of imagining it, Lewis actually did do it. Today. Many of his fans can't bear to see him criticized even a bit for it.
 
Reck said:
So...kind of like what Hamilton did in Spain and Portugal when Max took the lead from him off the line?
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I don't remember Spain, but I thought Hamilton was a bit rough at Portamao and that kind of thing deserves a penalty every time. It's just become so common there's no point in complaining because the FIA never sees it, just like they don't see the illegal swerving that happen every lap.. The FIA just let's this kind of thing slide race after race, almost like there are no rules.

That, and it has nothing to do with today. Completely different kinds of incidents, though if we are counting themes, dirty driving is just how it's done in F1.

It's not just Max. It was just Max today.
Reck said:
That said, each driver has their own approach so you cant count on drivers being nice. Last thing I'm going to say about this whole thing is that being the punching bag in any sport doesn't net you results....or respect.
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I don't care if drivers are nice, but I do care when they are not fair. This kind of thing is eventually going to kill someone and then we will all be weepy eyed and crying "Why didn't we do something about all the dirty driving?" Well, time to address this is now, but don't expect any sanity to intervene.
 
gnomesayin said:


I can sorta snicker at this, as I can envision Max being in Lewis' position and doing exactly the same. "I had a run."

However, instead of imagining it, Lewis actually did do it. Today. Many of his fans can't bear to see him criticized even a bit for it.
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So Lewis was supposed to mourn Verstappen or something?

The hypocrisy is high.
 
Reck said:
So Lewis was supposed to mourn Verstappen or something?

The hypocrisy is high.
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Oh my God. Max had the knocked out of him.

Oh, the humanity.

Also, seeing Max talk about another driver's "dangerous move" is like seeing Osama Bin Laden calling someone else evil. The richness of hypocrisy here is truly astounding.
 
Doc Austin said:
Oh my God. Max had the knocked out of him.

Oh, the humanity.
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That bit is not funny at all. You never want to see someone even as much as having a headache after a crash.

But the thing about not celebrating because someone crashed out, was ok but taken to the infield care center or hospital out of an abundance of caution is ridiculous. One thing is to be seriously injured and then celebrating but that’s not what happened.

Red Bull and Max are going to ride the pity and blame game for the next 2 weeks.
 
Reck said:
That bit is not funny at all. You never want to see someone even as much as having a headache after a crash.
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No, never funny when someone gets hurt.

What's really funny us no one got hurt and Max is still acting like it's Pearl Harbor and all celebrations MUST cancelled.

In spite of his life threatening injuries, Max still managed to get on social media and complain in record time.

The hypocrisy is absolutely breathtaking in it's boldness.

Reck said:
The thing about not celebrating because someone crashed out, was ok but taken to the infield care center or hospital out of an abundance of caution is ridiculous.
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At Indy, if you so much as touch any wall, you are required to go to the infield care center. It's probably in F1 rules too. Either way, that was a 25g impact so they at least had to check him for a concussion. I'm ok with them being careful here, but the downside is that gave Max an opportunity to cry and moan and be the victim form his hospital cot.

Reck said:
It's one thing is to be seriously injured and then celebrating but that’s not what happened.
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That's why I say "oh, the humanity." Max is acting like this is the Hindenburg disaster.

Reck said:
Red Bull and Max are going to ride the pity and blame game for the next 2 weeks.
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In a lot of ways I like most everything Red Bull does, but they sure love their victim role and playing it for all it's worth.
 
It'll be interesting to hear what the drivers actually think of this.

Leclerc said it was a racing incident and called Max too aggressive.
 
Hamilton turns in from wider out trying to pass Leclerc for the lead and easily makes it stick. The first lap he just didn’t back out enough from too narrow of an entry and washed well out. Max probably even takes a wider entry than Leclerc here, giving enough room isn’t an issue. From the overhead cam you can see how much momentum Lewis lost through that corner on the first lap, Leclerc would’ve passed him regardless of contact with Max or not.

 
Mispeedway15 said:
I think it’s more so the situation. It’s okay if you make contact at a slow speed corner where someone goes around. An all out corner though? Nah man
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ok, no passing attempts allowed on high speed corners,
especially on the first lap.
 
It was a high risk attempt, but I wouldn’t call it reckless.

I’d call it 80% Hamilton’s fault for not lifting earlier into Copse with that line and his position to Verstappen, and 20% to Verstappen for squeezing the line on turn-in.

Hamilton was about a meter too short from making that move work as an overtake. One more meter up and Verstappen would have clearly had to lift, run wide, or intentionally make contact. In the end, he wasn’t that meter forward, so thus the result.
 
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The racists out in full force online.

Being born black is criminal behavior.
 
Reck said:
The racists out in full force online.

Being born black is criminal behavior.
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It’s why I always get a kick of people complaining about racism in America. Obviously it’s there, but nowhere near what you see across the globe
 
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