F1 Silverstone Grand Prix

Doc Austin

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Scratching around looking so something else, I came across the photo we needed to make a good judgement. You will have to scroll down a bit.

Lewis Hamilton sent vile racist abuse by sick Instagram trolls after F1 star's crash with Max Verstappen at British GP (thesun.co.uk)

We are looking for the picture of the two right before the collision. Lewis is aiming the car to just before the apex. As you can see, there was nowhere for him to go. They are not even to the corner yet and Max is already squeezing him. I get it that they are racing hard, but you cannot occupy the road the other guy is already on, regardless of the rules. Max just made a championship level mistake, all 25 points worth.

Also, the swerving has gone on for so long no that one is even talking about Max swerving on Hamilton TWICE on the straight, which is expressly illegal. He bought the dummy and swerved left, then swerved right when Hamilton moved inside. He nearly pinned him to the pit wall after he had already swerved the other direction.

You can't do that. The rules expressly forbid that, but the FIA never enforces that, even after there have been several nasty collisions. This has been going on for decades, and when a car gets launched into the stands by a dirty trick, the lawsuits are going to eat them alive, and they will have deserved that because they went out of their way to earn it by letting this crap go on while they have rules against it.

Max was driving so stupid and so dangerous he was going to crash into Hamilton no matter what. Max was all over the road all the time ....... the entire freaking lap, chopping, blocking, swerving. Yeah, these are the world's best drivers? Sure they are if you like WWE on wheels.

Hamilton was racing and Max was playing chicken. As long as Hamilton was going to challenge max, Max was going to wreck someone, even if it was himself. Now that we know Max is fine, it's ok to talk about what an idiot he drove like. The guy has a death wish and he's going to get his way if he is allowed to keep it up.

The collision itself was 60/40 at worst and probably more like 50/50, but all the antics that up to that were unbelievably irresponsible. Sure it was a big accident, but at any time on that lap, Max could have caused a bigger one just by being stupid.

This is a problem that isn't going to go away on it's own.
 

Doc Austin

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Unseen, and we're not talking about it either, is that Hamilton is playing the long game, or as he says, "it's a marathon."

Lewis drove over the curbs and damaged his car at Imola because Max gave him no other choice. Later, Hamilton ran Max wide at Portamao, but it was not nearly as bad. All Max had to do was back off a little, and he was beaten anyway. It was just a subtle warning that Lewis can play those games too, but at least he didn't wreck him.

If you're keeping score, that should have made then even, all except the part where Hamilton's car was damaged. It's the long game, so if there's going to be any revenge, you have to be smart and save it for when it counts. Don't just take a shot. Measure it.

I'm sure Lewis was over Imola, but he was probably also over being pushed around too, so while Max spent the entire first lap throwing out every dirty trick he had, Lewis was putting pressure on him and waiting for an opening. When he got the opening and Max continued to drive like a clown, it was a simple matter of holding his ground and letting max wreck himself. Cha Ching........ 25 points, when it counted, that is, and Hamilton was only guilty of racing cleanly.

Did Hamilton wreck Max on purpose? Probably not, but he also didn't give way because that is now over. There's no more pattycakes if you want to drive dirty with Lewis. You want hard racing, buckle up.

We tried to race Max fair but Max is not capable, so from now on, if he wants to be the fool he's going to get dumped. We are either going to have a fair championship or we are going to tear up a lot of ****.

Hamilton mans up. No doubt who the champion is.
 

bigspud

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after a frame by frame analysis of hams incar cam,
i have concluded max was at fault.
Verstappen And Hamiltons Collision Analysed 2021 British Grand Prix_v_1080p.mp4_20210719_07102...jpg

this image shows how far up beside max, ham was.
max started turning in before ham,
because he was taking a bigger arc into the corner,
ham reacted by turning right slightly, toward the white line.
ham was always going to the right, his car did not understeer into max.
this is verified by watching hams right front tire distance to white line.
her is hams incar video...
 

Doc Austin

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Behind the scenes, Toto Wolf has stayed in contact with the Verstappens. This is presumably to lay groundwork for Max to eventually drive a Merc.

"He no longer needs to call us anymore"– Jos Verstappen declares fallout with Toto Wolff | The SportsRush

Jos Verstappen says Toto Wolff should not call them anymore, declares hostility in relations.

So now we have declared hostility.

All the Red Bull smack led Jos down the merry path of burning his (and Max') bridge to Mercedes. Now, Max really has nowhere competitive to go. He's stuck at Red Bull (admittedly not a bad place). Because there is nowhere for him to go, Max is not in a great negotiating position next contract time. Of course, this hostility works in their favor because now Max has no other option but to stay at Red Bull.

Did Red Bull jump on all this drama just to screw Max out of a future Merc deal an
 

shark77

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Seeing the double turn of the wheel by Max entering Copse, now makes it seem more 50/50 to me for responsibility. He knew Lewis was there after the first turn of the wheel and then turned back into his line.
 

shark77

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Behind the scenes, Toto Wolf has stayed in contact with the Verstappens. This is presumably to lay groundwork for Max to eventually drive a Merc.

"He no longer needs to call us anymore"– Jos Verstappen declares fallout with Toto Wolff | The SportsRush



So now we have declared hostility.

All the Red Bull smack led Jos down the merry path of burning his (and Max') bridge to Mercedes. Now, Max really has nowhere competitive to go. He's stuck at Red Bull (admittedly not a bad place). Because there is nowhere for him to go, Max is not in a great negotiating position next contract time. Of course, this hostility works in their favor because now Max has no other option but to stay at Red Bull.

Did Red Bull jump on all this drama just to screw Max out of a future Merc deal an

All this hot headed stuff on the Red Bull side of things seems like a prelude to throwing away a damn good chance of winning the championship.
 

Doc Austin

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Weird dimensions in that Red Bull garage. Helmut Marko got a lawyer to go after Hamilton...

No joke.
Good grief. Is it going to be a capitol offense every time Max puts himself into the fence?

Lawyers? How is a judge or jury going to get this right if people who follow the sport are so sharply divided? Whatever they decide, we will have to live with it for years. Really, we're going to trust the future of the sport to lawyers and big brother?
 

Doc Austin

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Seeing the double turn of the wheel by Max entering Copse, now makes it seem more 50/50 to me for responsibility. He knew Lewis was there after the first turn of the wheel and then turned back into his line.
So Max knew he was there and turned in anyway? Regardless of the "rules" (which the FIA doesn't follow anyway) and who was/wasn't at fault, when you are in the fence you're going to get 0 points.

Hamilton always lives to fight another day. Max would rather fall on his sword than give an inch.

Seeing the double turn of the wheel by Max entering Copse,

Much like the double turn of the wheel Schumacher laid on JV at Jerez 97. See a pattern?


 

shark77

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So Max knew he was there and turned in anyway? Regardless of the "rules" (which the FIA doesn't follow anyway) and who was/wasn't at fault, when you are in the fence you're going to get 0 points.

Hamilton always lives to fight another day. Max would rather fall on his sword than give an inch.



Much like the double turn of the wheel Schumacher laid on JV at Jerez 97. See a pattern?

Max will learn the hard way going forward it seems. My point wasn’t that Max intended to crash, but that he knew Lewis was there and thought the aggressive turn was going to result in the same thing it had been doing for him.

Keep in mind, this is all fractions of seconds, so it wasn’t like all of this was methodical, it was more habit. Perhaps, habits will adjust knowing others won’t make room for elbowing into places anymore.
 

Reck

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I couldn't disagree more. There isn't a team on the grid (including Merc) who wouldn't sign max tomorrow if he became available.

I think Mercedes is good on that front with Russell incoming.

If you get Russell, you definitely don’t need a Max. Otherwise the team will implode again.

The thing about the father sticking his beak in, is that him talking nonsense by himself or is he speaking for Max? I can’t see how Max would be against hearing an offer by Mercedes given the chance just because of an on track accident.
 

Doc Austin

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I couldn't disagree more. There isn't a team on the grid (including Merc) who wouldn't sign max tomorrow if he became available.
Which one of those teams would give Max a chance to win the championship? He can go anywhere he wants, but will the car be worth it? I don't see anywhere else Max can go and still be a front runner. Maybe Ferrari, but right now that's not a good option.

Eventually it may calm down, but if Jos is not taking Toto's calls, it's going to be hard to negotiate that deal

Meanwhile, every day is one day closer to Russel getting the nod. and the door at Merc is closed until Hamilton decides to pursue another career. Merc isn't going to fire Hamilton and they aren't going to fire Russel. Now what does Max do, go to Aston?

It's not like max needs to do anything anyway. He's better off staying where he is at, and it's a pretty good place for him. The team is built around him, and for a driver it doesn't get any better than that.
 

FLRacingFan

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Jos said he didn’t even talk to “F1-Insider.com” and they pulled their article. Most of the stuff attributed to him is as real as the Easter Bunny.

 

Doc Austin

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Jos said he didn’t even talk to “F1-Insider.com” and they pulled their article. Most of the stuff attributed to him is as real as the Easter Bunny.
The story is everywhere. Google it and you'll be surprised how fast it got around.

Jos Verstappen tells Toto Wolff to stop calling him and Max | PlanetF1

That's where I originally read it, and I thought they were a credible source.

I'm pretty sure they have defamation laws in Europe, so if this is true, Jos should sue the crap out of them.

But .......... let's not automatically believe Jos. Maybe he ran his mouth before he calmed down and now he's covering his butt.

This whole thing is past crazy. The fun part is they all have to face each other tomorrow!
 

FLRacingFan

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The story is everywhere. Google it and you'll be surprised how fast it got around.

Jos Verstappen tells Toto Wolff to stop calling him and Max | PlanetF1

That's where I originally read it, and I thought they were a credible source.

I'm pretty sure they have defamation laws in Europe, so if this is true, Jos should sue the crap out of them.

But .......... let's not automatically believe Jos. Maybe he ran his mouth before he calmed down and now he's covering his butt.

This whole thing is past crazy. The fun part is they all have to face each other tomorrow!
I think it’s weird they get to interview all these other guys anyways. Jos and Marko are lunatics and liable to say something dumb at any point; it wouldn’t take much to write something that could conceivably be believable or just do a quick interview to get a bizarre soundbite to write about. And Horner is a perennial ****stirrer.

Meanwhile Max has been pretty quiet the whole time lol. I’d want everyone around me to shut up, but the guy probably has some daddy issues. Lewis’s dad was always hovering over everywhere when he was young too.
 

Doc Austin

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Doc Austin

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Keep digging.
It doesn't get any prettier.

Jos fractured a guy's skull........

BBC SPORT | MOTORSPORT | Verstappen found guilty of assault

Accused of beating up his own dad............

Jos Verstappen accused of beating up his own father | GRAND PRIX 247

Arrested for assaulting his girlfriend:

Verstappen arrested after girlfriend assault (motorsport.com)

Accused of wife beating:

Former F1 driver Jos Verstappen faces jail over wife assault | Car News | Auto123

There is page after page after page on this guy hurting people.

Damm, This is one violent psychopath: Why was Verstappen’s situation complicated? I... - Feels Villeneuve (tumblr.com)

And then, there's this:




Now if you are googling, you will find a story where a Jos Verstappen raped and murdered a Nikki Verstappen, but beware that's a different guy,
 

Doc Austin

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As much as I have read about this, it almost sounds like Red Bull is suing to get their damages paid too. Damm, wouldn't that be a lovely precedent?

Red Bull said:
We are therefore still looking at the evidence and considering all of our sporting options.

We'll sue them! I mean, it's a sporting option, right?

////////////////////////////////

Red Bull was almost on the verge of putting this thing away, and they probably believed it because it was certainly going their way. It's really bad juju to get backhanded off your perch like that

I mean, there's still a long way to go, but if Max had won, that's what, four or five in a row, not including Baku that he had as good as won before a tire blew. I think that would have been a really bad psychological blow for Mercedes, not even considering the points situation would be completely out of control.

But, it all went south and not only did this nearly even out the points, imagine the morale boost this will give Mercedes. Now Hamilton controls his own fate, and if he wins the next two he's back in the lead no matter what Max does, but Max will probably do something stupid because he's wound up like a cheap watch too. That, and the Red Bull brass is freaking out so much this isn't going to motivate the rest of the team in a positive way. Maybe they can make that work for them, but from the outside it looks like everyone is running around with their hair on fire.

Of course, remembering Nico's championship, along with three at the end of the previous year, Nico won the opening four races. That's seven races in a row he beat Hamilton pretty much fair and square. Instead of letting that affect him negatively, Hamilton ran off his own seven race streak. Barring a late engine failure at Malaysia, Hamilton would have likely won that championship too.

So, no matter how roughed up Hamilton gets and no matter how many times you beat him, this guy is never out of the game. Hamilton was sleepwalking through the championship all year because he's had it all his way for so long. No one has ever been better than Hamilton when his back is against the wall. Hamilton is like a slow starting fighter who has to get hit a few times to remind him he's in a fight. Then, look out.

Red Bull needs to be conserned that they have awoken the sleeping giant.
 

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Red Bull is still trying to start ****. They’re now trying to get the investigation reopened. Meeting Thursday to determine if it’s worth doing so by the stewards.

It’s hard to like a team with this much animosity. At this point self destructing it’s what they have coming if they don’t start focusing on the championship battle.
 

shark77

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The whole suing for something that happened in a race really needs to be dealt with by the FIA. It seems like the regulations would stipulate some kind of liability waiver for on track incidents. You can’t have a series where teams sue each other over accidents that happen during a race.
 
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