dude you don't get it and you never will, terminal waaaaYeah, the screams for 4 foot spoilers have been pretty loud around here.
Post some numbers on tire wear and speed fall off and perhaps bringing that car into this discussion will makes sense.
Gen6. Some more thoughts?
- Thread starter dpkimmel2001
- Start date
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
You bring THAT thing into a discussion about spec racing, and I'm the guy who doesn't get it? lol
that is the reason there is spec racing..get it?
you keep trying to re invent the wheel dude, you don't know why things are the way they are now, because you for one don't know history
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
Err, no it isn't. That's the reason those cars were banned. Spec racing (single frame) didn't come out until much later. Why? For safety, cost savings and to solve aero push. It also made things easier on nascar trying to even things out between makes. How you think a car castrated in 1970 brought about the CoT in 2007 is truely beyond my understanding. How you can pin much of pettys success on the Superbird is also strange.
I may be younger, but I ain't stupid.
Thegroundpounder99
Bull in a China Shop
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Honcho isn't here and somebody had to do it
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
I sure hope Goodyear opts for a larger tire. There sure will be lots of head scratching around here.
spec racing came much later eh? hmmm where is the wing, the vents on the front fenders?? not to mention the ram air scoop on the front..this is the next year. Not calling you stupid....just hopefully you are getting a free history lesson. Been specing cars way before this picture was taken also
Here is Junior Johnson's banana car..that's a 65 Ford with the rear end sheetmetal bent upwards for more downforce. Ever hear Darell Waltrip talk about old Nascar tec inspectors coming up to a team and saying "that car doesn't look right"? This is why They called Junior Johnson a genius, he figured out that having the trunk higher gave the car more downforce.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
Oh boy, now he's talking about Banana's that never raced. You still haven't answered if larger tires are aero devices. When you do, try to stick to cars with spec frames and bodies in future posts.
Over and out.
Over and out.
This is why cars are in so tight a box. This stuff above would have the winning car sometimes a lap or two ahead of the rest of the pack. Doesn't matter about the gears or the suspension, or the spoiler..all the teams will have the same chance..and guess what..the car in front will always have the advantage all things being equal.
Sorry man, some people aren't teachable. retired mechanical engineer, been messing with thermo pressures, and aero, modulus of elasticity,statics and strengths of materials for too long. blah blah blah go figure.
R
robbybee
Guest
You are right, Ted. It was great to see multiple grooves and 3-wide racing. Part of that is due to the progressive banking at Vegas and part of it is because Pee Wee can do stuff few others can.
But when the circus goes to places like Michigan, Fontucky, Chicago, maybe even Charlotte, I am expecting a parade.
Bobw
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Well, excuuuuuuuuuse me. Saying people aren't teachable is a pizz poor excuse for a "teacher" to say if that in fact is what you're trying to do, teach us, and we disagree. Maybe you should reboot your slide rule old timer and try again. What is it? Oh yeah, just saying.
you think I am just making this stuff up junior? The banana car never raced? And you are telling me what to stick to? you had better go back to your playstation, cause you are too dense to get it.
BTW every thing that moves is affected by aerodynamics. With tires in a nascar setting, all the widths are equal so it is a non issue. the friction coefficient(grip) is changed with tire pressure, tire compound, and weight transfer for the most part
R
robbybee
Guest
lol
So you also know that there was a time when the cars relied less on downforce and more on grip.
What changed? It was the introduction of the FORD Thunderbird. That was the first real "production body type" that was designed to take advantage of downforce.
The Buicks and the Oldsmobiles had nearly vertical grilles. Quite different from what evolved later.
The cars' development put more importance on downforce in later versions. But clean air was still important.
Being in front also allowed the lead driver to defend his position as it still does - to some degree at least.
yep. Know why Bill Elliott #9 above won quite a few races?. Brother Ernie had shortened the width of the car 1/2". Nascar caught it, but nobody knows how many races he won with it that way before he did. Lots of teams back then in that era switched to the olds and buick and Pontiac from the chevy because it had better aero numbers. There was a lot of bitching back then about different body styles having an advantage over the other. Nascar fixed that with the next generation for the most part.
R
robbybee
Guest
Weight transfer - from aerodynamic downforce?
There are other factors which enter into the amount of grip a tire has, such as altering the contact patch thru mechanical adjustments in camber angle and varying spring rates, which impact how much of a car's resting weight is on a given tire, right?
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Nope, cant get angry at the boss, toadie code of conduct.Are you mad???
Hmmm, why would nascar say something like that. Hmmmm.......
Go back and watch some postrace comments from when the CoT began racing with the splitter. Aero-push enters the conversation in a big way. Then again, many around here know racing better than the drivers, so why bother?
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
yep, plenty left to adjust. Now they have camber on the rear end, they can slant them inward and outward, mostly inward, and also they have the front end geometry, toe in and out, caster and camber. I am not sure if they get to pick the tire stagger, which is different diameters, larger on the outside and smaller on the inside as a rule on ovals.
wondering when the peanut gallery would show upNope, cant get angry at the boss, toadie code of conduct.
Years ago they had a series for a few years called the International Race of Champions, it was pretty cool series. They had one car builder make all the cars the same, and drivers from Nascar, Formula 1, Indycar etc would rece each other on different tracks. Earnhart SR. was great in that series
Pretty much like Nascar is today.
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Although I'm not quite dumb as a stump, even though I'm a peanut in a gallery, now you see why I dont try to rationalize with certain members on here, its bad for the blood pressure.Good croc.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
Although I'm not quite dumb as a stump, even though I'm a peanut in a gallery, now you see why I dont try to rationalize with certain members on here, its bad for the blood pressure.
I agree. Some of the oldtimers are waaaaaaaaay out there.
what do you have to add to the conversation besides wise ass remarks, your bumper buddy doesn't seem to be doing very well, he definitely needs more help, he has called me a liar and I showed I wasn't, tried to discredit my remarks and he has failed..hopefully others have learned a bit about why Nascar is what it is and it doesn't really make a tinkers damn what they change..the lead car (all things being equal) is going to have the advantage. always and forever
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Sheet, as you well know I'm older'n most if not all of'em. It damn sure aint the age or lack of, that makes'em ornery.I agree. Some of the oldtimers are waaaaaaaaay out there.
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If you are so miserable by thinking you are the high teacher of racing meant to set us all straight and we dont buy into it, why did you come back with a different S/N, huhhh???
ya can't teach know it alls like yourself. If you think I am the high teacher or so miserable so be it do I care? Do your wise cracking, and attempted character assassination, it won't change the history of Nascar, or why things are that way today. You can repute the enumerable law that the car out front (all things being equal) is going to have the advantage. Blow up the tires, put a wing on there, take them all off, doesn't matter.
Here's my point of view: I'm guessing the TV coverage wasn't very good because if you were actually AT the race then most of the opinions posted here regarding passing and aero wouldn't be here. I saw A LOT of passing. I saw cars that could pass top 10 cars WHEREVER they wanted. I listened to no less than 15 different team frequencies. None of the drivers that I listened were talking about aero anything. Most were talking about tight or loose with regard to set-up, not clean or dirty air.
Are the Gen-6 cars more aerodynamic than a 1948 Buick? The answer is yes. Is the car an improvement aerodynamically in terms of better racing than last year's car? The answer is yes.
I've been at Vegas the past six years and this is the best racing I've seen yet. By far the most passing I've seen all around the track. There were several grooves in one and two, as opposed to three grooves last year, I believe it's the car and not the tire. The three and four groove pretty much remained the same as year.
Attend a race before you criticize the racing quality of the Gen-6 car (plate racing not included.)
Are the Gen-6 cars more aerodynamic than a 1948 Buick? The answer is yes. Is the car an improvement aerodynamically in terms of better racing than last year's car? The answer is yes.
I've been at Vegas the past six years and this is the best racing I've seen yet. By far the most passing I've seen all around the track. There were several grooves in one and two, as opposed to three grooves last year, I believe it's the car and not the tire. The three and four groove pretty much remained the same as year.
Attend a race before you criticize the racing quality of the Gen-6 car (plate racing not included.)
Swap drivers in the same exact scenario and the outcome would've been different
mike honcho
Knuckleheads
Well Duh??????It would be a different driver winning but in the same car.Swap drivers in the same exact scenario and the outcome would've been different
mike honcho
Knuckleheads
I have to ask.How many of these "passes" that you seen were side-by-side passes that the guy had to work for or how many were pull over and let the other guy go passes?
What I'm saying is that Matt would have gotten by Kasey if Kasey were in the car with the older tires.
I'm not talking about passing lapped cars, I'm talking about quality passes for position. Not many guys racing for position roll over and let the guy pass. I saw MANY passes, some were back & forth passes, more than I could count.
FenderBumper
The "good old days" ??
Bobby misses the point his observations prove. Back in the pack, nobody has the clean air advantage, and there was lots of passing. Matt had the clean air advantage, and he couldn't be passed.
mike honcho
Knuckleheads
You saw many but some were quality back and forth?Did you have your shoes off at the time so we could get to more than 10 at least?
What about the at least 15 passes I saw for the lead?
Passing up at Las Vegas: NASCAR's new Gen-6 Sprint Cup race car racked up some impressive statistics in Sunday's race. The official race reports reads 22 lead changes among eight drivers, with the 22 lead changes being the most at Las Vegas since 2007, the year before the Gen-5 car (Car of Tomorrow) was introduced at intermediate race tracks. Beyond those numbers, NASCAR's loop data (stats measured at the 10 scoring loops around the 1.5-mile track) showed a phenomenal 2,342 green-flag passes throughout the race, compared with 1,301 last year. In addition, there were 31 green-flag passes for the lead (including intra-lap passes scored at loops other than the finish line), the most since NASCAR started recording loop data in 2005.(NASCAR Wire Service)(3-11-2013)
Damn those pesky facts
mike honcho
Knuckleheads
Did you really think they would put out any different info this week after what Denny said last week?What about the at least 15 passes I saw for the lead?
Passing up at Las Vegas: NASCAR's new Gen-6 Sprint Cup race car racked up some impressive statistics in Sunday's race. The official race reports reads 22 lead changes among eight drivers, with the 22 lead changes being the most at Las Vegas since 2007, the year before the Gen-5 car (Car of Tomorrow) was introduced at intermediate race tracks. Beyond those numbers, NASCAR's loop data (stats measured at the 10 scoring loops around the 1.5-mile track) showed a phenomenal 2,342 green-flag passes throughout the race, compared with 1,301 last year. In addition, there were 31 green-flag passes for the lead (including intra-lap passes scored at loops other than the finish line), the most since NASCAR started recording loop data in 2005.(NASCAR Wire Service)(3-11-2013)
Damn those pesky facts