Goodyear Tires performance at Fontana

dpkimmel2001 said:
So, we now want NASCAR to monitor the tire pressure on the cars? Goodyear gives them a recommended tire pressure. Teams can follow it or not. I don't think it should be NASCAR's responsibility.
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I don't want to see Nascar have to set a minimum psi either, and like i said before i think the teams will fix the problem with their setups. But, if they don't and it gets too dangerous then either Nascar or Goodyear may have to step in.
 
And since Clint was being mentioned earlier.....

And Clint Bowyer? He had something to say about those railing against him thinking he spun on purpose to bring out the late caution and cost Jeff Gordon the win:

Clint Bowyer @ClintBowyer

Love how "some" idiots on here think I really wanted to give up a much needed good run to screw you over. #dip****s
 
Nitro Dude said:
We have the same problem in Nhra. Because some of the top money and horespower teams complain so much... now nhra lays so much tire down and sprays so much vht on the track that it is basically who ever has the most money and can make the most horespower wins. Now, you can just throw everything you have at the track and if you have enough horespower you run a good number and if you don't have enough horespower you rattle the tires at the hit. It has to be 130 deg track temp before we smoke the tires anymore. It's pretty bad when we can't get up on the tire with 10,000 horespower. The fans are getting pretty tired of the same high dollar teams winning all the time.
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Big money has destroyed auto racing at every level. It's a shame we can't have a good product as race fans because car wins every single time. Races like yesterday need to happen more often. At the end of the race, five of the most talented drivers in auto racing history finished in the top-five.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
And since Clint was being mentioned earlier.....

And Clint Bowyer? He had something to say about those railing against him thinking he spun on purpose to bring out the late caution and cost Jeff Gordon the win:

Clint Bowyer @ClintBowyer

Love how "some" idiots on here think I really wanted to give up a much needed good run to screw you over. #dip****s
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To be fair, the theory isn't that he wrecked himself on purpose. The tin-foil hat crowd believes Bowyer could've made it to pit road without spinning to bring out the caution. IF he did spin on purpose, which he didn't, it would be because he was trying to stay on the lead lap.
 
Tires that wear and lose grip and tires that fail prematurely are two different things. IMO, the tire failures yesterday were in a large way because of low tire pressures. Not everyone had tire issues yesterday. At Indy a few years ago almost everyone had tire problems.
 
BobbyFord said:
I think Goodyear gave a bull****t explanation of why their product failed today. I think Goodyear showed up with a junk tire and tried to save face.
If the issue was a result of running less than recommended pressures, wouldn't teams make pressure adjustments in an effort to increase tire longevity?
IMO, tire failures seen this weekend were not a result of creative tire pressures, nor a result of aggressive camber settings. Tire failures were a result of Goodyear showing up with the wrong compound. Would Goodyear ever admit? No. They want the contract. Goodyear failed at ACS 2014.
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It was the same tire as last year. How do you not get that?
 
Heard some of the same stuff about Carl Edwards' spin yesterday. When he spun and brought out the caution, it got his teammate Greg Biffle back on the lead lap. There was also some audio of Carl asking if the caution was out, and his spotter saying "it just now came out". However, I don't think there was any foul play involved in either instance.
 
Kyle18fan said:
My point went right over yer head. Was the cup race better ????
Cup cars arent needed to give the fans a show are they ???

I gotta go to work. Try to come up with some new material today. You can try it out this afternoon when I get home :rolleyes:
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so you switched the conversation from Cup to Nationwide???

:rolleyes:

Good luck at work. I just hope you aren't an air traffic controller. lol
 
Nitro Dude said:
I don't want to see Nascar have to set a minimum psi either, and like i said before i think the teams will fix the problem with their setups. But, if they don't and it gets too dangerous then either Nascar or Goodyear may have to step in.
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Will Goodyear wait that long? I doubt it. With the beating they are taking, I think their attitude will be 'you guys asked for tires that wear, then you made us look like we can't make good tires'.

We'll be back to rocks very soon, and that would be a shame.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
joey meier @2Spotter

Funny how people want to BLAME someone or something. Its called racing. We raced. Limits were pushed. Parts failed. That's what we do.
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Yep. He nailed it. Goodyear knows what they need to do to keep their image intact. They aren't spending millions to let race teams make them look like fools. Like everything else in racing, limits are set because teams will ALWAYS push things too far.
 
Tires don't lose races, people do. I'll bet not one of those tires said anything about the hell they went through while carrying the other 3300 pounds around that track.
 
Whizzer said:
I don't think Good Year should shoulder all the responsibility but did see teams pushing the envelope on rear camber and overall setups. I liked the race and recall when bias ply tires always had drivers wondering if they might go flat or blow out. It was a staple of the series and no one much cared. And remember when radials were introduced? They were pretty scary at first, unexpected spins, wrecks and flats, until drivers and teams learned how to set them up. Next race at California, gaur - un- teed, setups will be less aggressive, drivers will approach the race differently. And, Good Year will bring a different tire.
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I hate the radials love the bias ply.
 
Jeffrey00 said:
I just can't put any of it on Goodyear. This is one of the main problems with Nascar racing today. Teams expect Goodyear to produce them a tire that never wears. They want a tire that will go a full fuel run where they can run wide open every single lap. How about teams actually do their homework and learn to set the car up right, and drivers learn to drive their cars right.
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I'm not putting it all on Goodyear. I don't want to see a tire that doesn't wear. But I don't want to see a tire that can not last more than 25 laps either.
The fact that there were so many blown tires tells me Goodyear is at least partly responsible.

It's not like there is no middle ground with the tire. Goodyear can produce a tire that wears down and lasts more than 25 laps without failing.
 
mreed said:
I'm not putting it all on Goodyear. I don't want to see a tire that doesn't wear. But I don't want to see a tire that can not last more than 25 laps either.
The fact that there were so many blown tires tells me Goodyear is at least partly responsible.

It's not like there is no middle ground with the tire. Goodyear can produce a tire that wears down and lasts more than 25 laps without failing.
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same tire last year, and no issues. how is it the tire?

or

how about teams set their cars up so they don't eat through the tires in 25 laps.
 
FenderBumper said:
Choice A: Go back to hard tires.
Choice B: Set a minimum tire pressure.

I'll take B any day.
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That could be done, but how do you enforce the rule. It is easy to discretely bleed the air, tires also change psi after a run, making post run checks highly questionable.

Stewards could be assigned for monitoring, but I dont think they gave enough eyes to do the job.
 
Jeffrey00 said:
same tire last year, and no issues. how is it the tire?

or

how about teams set their cars up so they don't eat through the tires in 25 laps.
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For the third time, I'm not saying it's all because of the tire.

But it's hard to believe it's all because the set-ups have changed so dramatically from one year to another that caused all the tire failures.

I think it's a mixture of the track changing, the set-ups changing, and Goodyear not keeping up with those changes.

If it was solely because of the set-ups on the cars we'd be seeing this problem at other tracks.
 
Greg said:
That could be done, but how do you enforce the rule. It is easy to discretely bleed the air, tires also change psi after a run, making post run checks highly questionable.

Stewards could be assigned for monitoring, but I dont think they gave enough eyes to do the job.
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TPS valve stems with indicator lights would be any easy solution because the officials could check with just a glance before a stop is made, or while tires are being changed. If that isn't possible, an air pressure verification box can be hooked to each teams air hose, much like those that tell you the tire pressure as you fill the tire. A simple indicator light would tell nascar something isn't right.

Pressures rise during a run, so that shouldn't be an issue. It can all be calculated by Goodyear. Teams can still play with tire pressures, just not to the point where it damages the tires.
 
all this will be a moot point at next year's race probably. Nationwide had the best race of the weekend IMO with last years tire. Anybody that thinks they didn't do any changes to the cup cars off season, all they had to do was watch the race. They demolished last year's tire. Probably will get fixed, but now with rumors of less horse power, who knows.
 
"By no means is this a problem for Goodyear," Kurt Busch said, referring to NASCAR's tire manufacturer. "It's just a thumbs-up for NASCAR for allowing teams to get aggressive in all areas."
 
FenderBumper said:
TPS valve stems with indicator lights would be any easy solution because the officials could check with just a glance before a stop is made, or while tires are being changed. If that isn't possible, an air pressure verification box can be hooked to each teams air hose, much like those that tell you the tire pressure as you fill the tire. A simple indicator light would tell nascar something isn't right.

Pressures rise during a run, so that shouldn't be an issue. It can all be calculated by Goodyear. Teams can still play with tire pressures, just not to the point where it damages the tires.
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what ta do w/ these these poor dumb azz teams that don't know any better ?
maybe nascar needs ta hire a "tire air specialist / inspector " for each team ?
no changes unless he's lookin over ya shoulder ......an signs off on each one ......takes a pic of gauge.....sends that
ta tower .....ta "tire pressure czar " for approval........who then sends ta helton for approval ! ha!
yeah ...that 'd fix that !
 
The width of the tire is 11.5 inches, yet during yesterdays race many photos of tires showed half the tire had wear. I like Nascar is allowing the crews the ability to make set-up changes, but watching the cars bounce along without enough rear spring or shocks is incorrect. For drivers and crews to get a handle on these Indy/stock cars with all the down force necessary to maintain speed, having rules in place regarding spring rates and shock combinations doesn't help. Tire testing at each track occurred years ago amongst top teams from each manufacture, perhaps Goodyear needs to implement that requirement with Nascar and those teams reported the results to each team, probably didn't share the whole note book but they all got information. Re-align the schedule so that teams aren't from one end of the country back to the other every other week. Teams are so fear full of exploding a motor now with the increase in qualifying laps let them go back to have qualifying engines and allow engine swaps after qualifying. Many things could and should be changed, but we aren't the ones with the money, we're just keyboard racers!!!
 
DUN24 posted this in the "Random" thread----

Found on Jayski:

Sunday's Auto Club 400 at Auto Club Speedway produced a massive number of tire failures, as Goodyear Eagles exploded with shocking regularity from the opening 20 laps until the end of the race. #48-Jimmie Johnson, #4-Kevin Harvick, #99-Carl Edwards, #16-Greg Biffle, #9-Marcos Ambrose, #2-Brad Keselowski, #88-Dale Earnhardt Jr. and #15-Clint Bowyer were among the top drivers who saw their races go out the window because of tire failures. But afterward, most of the drivers weren't pointing the finger at Goodyear as the source of the problem. Instead, they pointed to changes with the cars and how they are set up for 2014. Last year, NASCAR loosened rules on how much air pressure the teams must run in their tires and how much camber they can run. This year, NASCAR added downforce with a new, larger rear spoiler.
Some teams got very aggressive by running extremely low air pressures on left-side tires -- 11 pounds per square inch in some cases, vs. the Goodyear recommendation of 22 psi -- and equally aggressive camber, which is defined as how much the tire slants away from vertical when viewing it from the front or back. Lower air pressures combined with aggressive camber make for extremely fast speeds, but it greatly increases the risk of catastrophic tire failure, which is what happened again and again and again on Sunday. "Last year we opened up the rules on camber for the rear end," added Robin Pemberton, NASCAR's vice president of competition and racing development. "I would say that a year ago at this time we were early in the process, and teams were probably not as aggressive as they wound up being as the season unfolded, as they got the mechanics better in their cars and the opportunity to be able to make parts and pieces live longer. Now, I think they're probably a little bit better prepared for that. So if they had too much camber -- they've got a lot of choices, so if they had too much and it abused the tire, that's what happens." Asked by FOXSports.com if he thought the tire failures were a Goodyear problem, Pemberton was clear. "No," Pemberton said. "We've talked to Goodyear. We have asked, the competitors have asked to bring more aggressive tires, to bring tires that they need to manage and want to -- how they use them and how they get the most out of them. At this point in time, I think Goodyear, it's the same tire that we've run on in the past. Just the car is a little bit different."(FoxSports)(3-24-2014)
 
SlicedBread22 said:
Simple.. not the same car as last year lol.
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Same car, more down force/setup options. That's it. There was no way for Goodyear to predict all that happened.

99% of the tire failures were left rear. And not all drivers had those issues. A combination of aggressive setups and bumpy track surfaces are to blame. . . . Not Goodyear.
 
Jeffrey00 said:
same tire last year, and no issues. how is it the tire?

or

how about teams set their cars up so they don't eat through the tires in 25 laps.
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There seems to be a contradiction coming from nascar, or the media is reporting things wrong. nascar said same tires as last year, but some in the media aren't saying the same thing.

Either way, the second part is right on. I doubt teams will handle it themselves. All the teams had ample warning after the practice sessions, and only a few top teams decided to back off.

Maybe the only good news from this is that points racing seems to be dead for now.
 
hawg dawg said:
a whole bunch a' 'em did on last 2-3 pit stops..........ie---lotta flats at end of race.
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Judging by speeds in the 2nd to last run, the 18 waited until the last stop to lower the pressures into the danger zone. Good move.
 
FenderBumper said:
Judging by speeds in the 2nd to last run, the 18 waited until the last stop to lower the pressures into the danger zone. Good move.
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Kyle Busch was the fastest car all race long on the first two laps of the run. Kyle's the most talented driver in NASCAR but you also need luck to win races and the stars couldn't have aligned any more perfectly for Kyle Busch.
 
AndyMarquisLive said:
Kyle Busch was the fastest car all race long on the first two laps of the run. Kyle's the most talented driver in NASCAR but you also need luck to win races and the stars couldn't have aligned any more perfectly for Kyle Busch.
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What race were you watching? He was slow on the restart before JJ's tire blew and didn't get going until late in that run because he still had some tire left. He was gaining on Jeff after Kyle re-passed Kez, but he was 8 seconds back.
 
FenderBumper said:
so you switched the conversation from Cup to Nationwide???

:rolleyes:

Good luck at work. I just hope you aren't an air traffic controller. lol
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Not an air traffic controller but my job requires me to be a master of many different skills, my employer is extremely happy with my performance. Talking to people on the internet is NOT one of my specialties however. :moon:
 
Nascar just needs to have a California backstretch speed limit.
 
THIS WAS NOT GOODYEAR'S FAULT. The teams asked nascar for the ability to police themselves. That meant they wanted softer tires. We saw one of the best 2 races that nascar has put on in a LONG time. If a car can go from 30th to the top 10 in a handful of laps that is exactly what we are after in racing. I don't recall seeing the cars running all over the track in the turns like that before it was amazing. I also like the bumps being in the track because it creates a variable. The pavement at california is perfect!!! Tire wear is the key to making interesting racing because it creates cars that come and go. Some drivers manage it better than others. One of the problems is nascar has been trying a new "green" tire compound the last few years and it makes for tires that fall off only for a few laps then they level off and everyone runs the same speeds.

The problem was the teams had more rear downforce and they were allowed even greater rear camber meaning the left side tire was allowed to be run tipped out alot more. what this does combined with too little air pressure was put an excessive amount of tire wear right at the outer edge of the tire. the edge of the tire was the main bearing area going down the straights and over all those bumps it was also bearing in the turns. Another factor likely was the chase being a win and your in deal. why not show up with an all out kill setup in the car in an effort to win the race??

please don't ask for this track to be repaved they did that with michigan from my view that track did not need a repave, there is probably something I don't know but IMO the track was fine. If you want to see abrasive watch the race jeff gordan won before they repaved darlington.
 
wanna see drivers / teams "manage" tires ?
eliminate rear wedge bolts.....an go back ta bias ply tires. no skew / crab offset rear end / no current camber .
gotta use tire " stagger " ta wedge car then........driver gotta know limits on tire wear.

just kiddin......but don't all ya ole farts have memories of those days ?
 
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