Gordon's Statement during the 600 is too telling

OldTimer said:
You are cherry picking specific edited items, my contention is that the hood is different on the Camaro cup cars compared to last year, and different than the current Xfinity Camaros
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2020 Camaro
1623783170013.png


2018 Camaro

1623783626660.png


2021 Camaro

1623783927240.png
 
Revman said:
No he is not. Geez, dude.

racer.com

Chevy Cup teams eager for fresh start with latest Camaro

Chevrolet teams are starting from scratch, once again, in the NASCAR Cup Series and hoping for much better results this time. In October, Chevrolet officials introduced a new iteration of its Camar…
racer.com racer.com
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That article is from over a year ago. That car, like @ChexOrWrex said, was the refresh Camaro ("ZL1 1LE") that ran all of last season too. That is not a 2021 thing.
 
StandOnIt said:
Lack of Bondo THAT is your problem. ;)
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I agree. Time for a new car. We still have half a season left, so NASCAR should be good with it. The problem is that NASCAR put the pinch on Toyota and Ford....we have a parts and development freeze. Once the deal was done, fighting back is very, very difficult....I won't say impossible because this is about TRD.....and Bondo if necessary. Maybe WE could craft some of those cute dive planes the Camaro has. Very F-1ish.
 
cheesepuffs said:
That article is from over a year ago. That car, like @ChexOrWrex said, was the refresh Camaro ("ZL1 1LE") that ran all of last season too. That is not a 2021 thing.
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They got a brand new car in '20. Brand new....not a damn refresh.....and then there was the parts and development freeze while the development window for the Camaro was just getting started. They completely ****** up in 2018. New car in '20....they still sucked, but then as they started figuring the car out, they got better (those Chevy guys are a bit slow)....the nail in the coffin was screwing the Fords. The Camry is the oldest, followed by the Ford, and then the Camaro which was built specifically for this package so you can imagine how wide the development window is. What is completely stupid was NASCAR allowing a new car at a time when development was about to be frozen, wind tunnel time severely restricted (for which Hendrick got nailed because they couldn't keep track of time) so that the industry could save resources for the Next Gen. Chevy got thrown a bone because they were embarrassing themselves. The built a whole new car with the intention of running it one season at a time when the industry was restricted in terms of money spending. This year was never supposed to be for the ZL11LEMOUSE. Larson is good, but he wouldn't be doing what he is doing without the significant advantage Chevy has.....and without Hendrick looking the other way and having the resources to run him without sponsorship.....Does Chevy have a PSA with him yet? Telling isn't it? Your own damn manufacturer won't pay you.
 
Revman said:
Just checking because my boy @StandOnIt is having trouble coming to grips with this fact so I like to keep the narrative clear.
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Nah I'm all gripped up. Hendrick has made some really smart personnel moves. The youngsters are starting to get it..1234 @ Dover :punkrocke

Who can top Hendrick Motorsports?​


When the green flag waves Sunday at Nashville Superspeedway, it will be 41 days since a team other than Hendrick Motorsports won a Cup race. That race was May 9 when Joe Gibbs Racing’s Martin Truex Jr. won at Darlington Raceway.
Since then:
Alex Bowman won May 16 at Dover, as Hendrick drivers finished 1-2-3-4.
Chase Elliott won May 23 at Circuit of the Americas with Kyle Larson second.
Kyle Larson won the May 30 Coca-Cola 600 with Elliott second.
Larson won June 6 at Sonoma with Elliott second.
Larson won the June 13 NASCAR All-Star Race.

“We’ve seen many times there’s been dominant cars and dominant teams through the season, and then when it gets time for the playoffs, there’s all kinds of things that can happen in those couple of months there,” said Jeff Andrews general manager of Hendrick Motorsports.

“We’re not wanting to be too confident right now. We’re wanting to stay focused. We know we need to continue to improve our race cars and bring better race cars to the racetrack every week.”

nascar.nbcsports.com

Key storylines heading into final 10 Cup races of regular season

NASCAR heads to Nashville Superspeedway this weekend as the push for the playoffs begins.
nascar.nbcsports.com nascar.nbcsports.com
 
StandOnIt said:
Nah I'm all gripped up. Hendrick has made some really smart personnel moves. The youngsters are starting to get it..1234 @ Dover :punkrocke

Who can top Hendrick Motorsports?​


When the green flag waves Sunday at Nashville Superspeedway, it will be 41 days since a team other than Hendrick Motorsports won a Cup race. That race was May 9 when Joe Gibbs Racing’s Martin Truex Jr. won at Darlington Raceway.
Since then:
Alex Bowman won May 16 at Dover, as Hendrick drivers finished 1-2-3-4.
Chase Elliott won May 23 at Circuit of the Americas with Kyle Larson second.
Kyle Larson won the May 30 Coca-Cola 600 with Elliott second.
Larson won June 6 at Sonoma with Elliott second.
Larson won the June 13 NASCAR All-Star Race.

“We’ve seen many times there’s been dominant cars and dominant teams through the season, and then when it gets time for the playoffs, there’s all kinds of things that can happen in those couple of months there,” said Jeff Andrews general manager of Hendrick Motorsports.

“We’re not wanting to be too confident right now. We’re wanting to stay focused. We know we need to continue to improve our race cars and bring better race cars to the racetrack every week.”

nascar.nbcsports.com

Key storylines heading into final 10 Cup races of regular season

NASCAR heads to Nashville Superspeedway this weekend as the push for the playoffs begins.
nascar.nbcsports.com nascar.nbcsports.com
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If this was Toyota, you would **** yourself. All good. Note the Andrews' reference to "Playoff Spec." Hendrick got a gift. Next year, I suspect seeing Larson doing his thing, but with much more competition. Chase will be average because that is what he is. Bowman and Byron will go back to just being cute. That is, until Chevy gets their complete redesign in year 2. Love the chase to get caught up man. Chevy better not get too comfy. I am not convinced that MY Toyotas have thrown it in to focus on next year. COVID has made Bondo hard to get. Once WE get that managed, WE will be back in the game. Maybe Ford has given up....couldn't blame them as NASCAR targeted them to elevate Chevy. The Ex-Con has some serious pull.
 
Revman said:
If this was Toyota, you would **** yourself. All good. Note the Andrews' reference to "Playoff Spec." Hendrick got a gift. Next year, I suspect seeing Larson doing his thing, but with much more competition. Chase will be average because that is what he is. Bowman and Byron will go back to just being cute. That is, until Chevy gets their complete redesign in year 2. Love the chase to get caught up man. Chevy better not get too comfy. I am not convinced that MY Toyotas have thrown it in to focus on next year. COVID has made Bondo hard to get. Once WE get that managed, WE will be back in the game. Maybe Ford has given up....couldn't blame them as NASCAR targeted them to elevate Chevy. The Ex-Con has some serious pull.
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wake up...it isn't Toyota. I laugh like hell listening to KDB scream and cuss about no front grip..he's yelling for the bondo :laugh: The rice burners have had plenty of time (and noses) to get it right..but they blew it. Or I guess it can be said they Bondo'd it.
 
StandOnIt said:
wake up...it isn't Toyota. I laugh like hell listening to KDB scream and cuss about no front grip..he's yelling for the bondo :laugh: The rice burners have had plenty of time (and noses) to get it right..but they blew it. Or I guess it can be said they Bondo'd it.
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Let's call up your posts from '19 when Toyota was winning everything in sight. You were screeching for parity, talking the history of the sport.....blah, blah, blah....Now, it's the Chevy stroke fest. I love your bias actually....would love it more if you just admitted it instead of shrouding it in BS statements of fact. I don't mind when a manufacturer gets an advantage, but honestly I will take Bondo over what was given to Chevy. Bad optics, but the sanctioning body knew that the fanbase wouldn't get what is going on because they have promoted the hell out of the drivers, and the TV guys wouldn't touch it because we supposedly love dudes like Bowyer screaming into our ears about beers and farming.
 
Revman said:
They got a brand new car in '20. Brand new....not a damn refresh.....and then there was the parts and development freeze while the development window for the Camaro was just getting started. They completely ****** up in 2018. New car in '20....they still sucked, but then as they started figuring the car out, they got better (those Chevy guys are a bit slow)....the nail in the coffin was screwing the Fords. The Camry is the oldest, followed by the Ford, and then the Camaro which was built specifically for this package so you can imagine how wide the development window is. What is completely stupid was NASCAR allowing a new car at a time when development was about to be frozen, wind tunnel time severely restricted (for which Hendrick got nailed because they couldn't keep track of time) so that the industry could save resources for the Next Gen. Chevy got thrown a bone because they were embarrassing themselves. The built a whole new car with the intention of running it one season at a time when the industry was restricted in terms of money spending. This year was never supposed to be for the ZL11LEMOUSE. Larson is good, but he wouldn't be doing what he is doing without the significant advantage Chevy has.....and without Hendrick looking the other way and having the resources to run him without sponsorship.....Does Chevy have a PSA with him yet? Telling isn't it? Your own damn manufacturer won't pay you.
Click to expand...

Man, that sounds familiar. Almost like the time a manufacturer couldn't build a competitive high horsepower engine that wouldn't self destruct, so NASCAR decided to nerf hp across the board to help out...
 
Revman said:
They got a brand new car in '20. Brand new....not a damn refresh.....and then there was the parts and development freeze while the development window for the Camaro was just getting started. They completely ****** up in 2018. New car in '20....they still sucked, but then as they started figuring the car out, they got better (those Chevy guys are a bit slow)....the nail in the coffin was screwing the Fords. The Camry is the oldest, followed by the Ford, and then the Camaro which was built specifically for this package so you can imagine how wide the development window is. What is completely stupid was NASCAR allowing a new car at a time when development was about to be frozen, wind tunnel time severely restricted (for which Hendrick got nailed because they couldn't keep track of time) so that the industry could save resources for the Next Gen. Chevy got thrown a bone because they were embarrassing themselves. The built a whole new car with the intention of running it one season at a time when the industry was restricted in terms of money spending. This year was never supposed to be for the ZL11LEMOUSE. Larson is good, but he wouldn't be doing what he is doing without the significant advantage Chevy has.....and without Hendrick looking the other way and having the resources to run him without sponsorship.....Does Chevy have a PSA with him yet? Telling isn't it? Your own damn manufacturer won't pay you.
Click to expand...
That's... a lot to unpack.

OK
 
Revman said:
If this was Toyota, you would **** yourself. All good. Note the Andrews' reference to "Playoff Spec." Hendrick got a gift. Next year, I suspect seeing Larson doing his thing, but with much more competition. Chase will be average because that is what he is. Bowman and Byron will go back to just being cute. That is, until Chevy gets their complete redesign in year 2. Love the chase to get caught up man. Chevy better not get too comfy. I am not convinced that MY Toyotas have thrown it in to focus on next year. COVID has made Bondo hard to get. Once WE get that managed, WE will be back in the game. Maybe Ford has given up....couldn't blame them as NASCAR targeted them to elevate Chevy. The Ex-Con has some serious pull.
Click to expand...
What year did you start following the Cup series? There has *always* been give and take for the manufacturers by NASCAR to even out the playing field. The manufacturers are go to NASCAR and whine that the others have an advantage, and then there are concessions made. It'd always been that way going back many decades. Toyota has gotten them too.
 
NASCAR allowed Toyota to enter the sport when they didn't even have a pushrod V8, and also allowed them to race the brand new 2018 Camry bodystyle for the Cup season of 2017 many months before that production car even hit the street. If we're really against manufacturers getting any favors then Toyota shouldn't even be out there. And I'm not anti-Toyota generally speaking, but let's talk apples to apples here.
 
cheesepuffs said:
NASCAR allowed Toyota to enter the sport when they didn't even have a pushrod V8, and also allowed them to race the brand new 2018 Camry bodystyle for the Cup season of 2017 many months before that production car even hit the street. If we're really against manufacturers getting any favors then Toyota shouldn't even be out there. And I'm not anti-Toyota generally speaking, but let's talk apples to apples here.
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Can you imagine how hard Rev's head would explode if he were around for the late 80's-early 90's when NASCAR was giving and taking inches of spoiler on a darn near weekly basis due to whining manufacturers?

And, yes, I place a LARGE amount of the blame for us having lower and lower horsepower packages on Toyota and their lobbying due to their inability to build their own competitive engine.
 
Dr_B_UNC said:
Can you imagine how hard Rev's head would explode if he were around for the late 80's-early 90's when NASCAR was giving and taking inches of spoiler on a darn near weekly basis due to whining manufacturers?

And, yes, I place a LARGE amount of the blame for us having lower and lower horsepower packages on Toyota and their lobbying due to their inability to build their own competitive engine.
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I want it known just because lower horsepower doesn't bother me like it does others that I am not a Revman MY TRD powered Toyota lover. :biggrin:
 
Revman said:
Maybe WE could craft some of those cute dive planes the Camaro has. Very F-1ish.
Click to expand...

Well, unlike your Camry, the Camaro actually offers a track package on the production model. That's the difference between an enthusiast's performance car, and a soccer mom's economy car.....

2018-Chevrolet-Camaro-ZL1-1LE-front-three-quarter-in-motion-04-e1498503636653.jpg
 
OldTimer said:
Ok...and? Notice the hood profile difference. Not the same...NASCAR allowed the Chevy to invert the depression in the middle, this was at Vegas this year
Click to expand...

The hood (and the entire car) this year is exactly the same as last year. Your buddy is full of it.

2020....

nascar-cup-phoenix-ii-2020-cha-2.jpg


2021....

2021-Daytona-I-Cup-Chase-Elliott-Car-NKP.jpg
 
2 Sweet said:
Well, unlike your Camry, the Camaro actually offers a track package on the production model. That's the difference between an enthusiast's performance car, and a soccer mom's economy car.....

2018-Chevrolet-Camaro-ZL1-1LE-front-three-quarter-in-motion-04-e1498503636653.jpg
Click to expand...
Speed Racer is going to jump out of that thing. Wait. Speed always had more class than that.
 
cheesepuffs said:
NASCAR allowed Toyota to enter the sport when they didn't even have a pushrod V8, and also allowed them to race the brand new 2018 Camry bodystyle for the Cup season of 2017 many months before that production car even hit the street. If we're really against manufacturers getting any favors then Toyota shouldn't even be out there. And I'm not anti-Toyota generally speaking, but let's talk apples to apples here.
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Yeah, on the 2018 NOSE in '17 after winning the manufacturers championship in '16.....so, the risk was great because the '16 car was so good. It's that whole selling cars thing. Can't think of a better way to get people excited about a model than to introduce it on the track. Solid point, however.

Does Chevy or Ford put their NASCAR engine in anything on the consumer side? Right, neither do WE. It's a freaking race engine....stock went out of that a long time ago, and we all know that. Some who aren't biased might see that situation as a disadvantage for Toyota.
 
cheesepuffs said:
What year did you start following the Cup series? There has *always* been give and take for the manufacturers by NASCAR to even out the playing field. The manufacturers are go to NASCAR and whine that the others have an advantage, and then there are concessions made. It'd always been that way going back many decades. Toyota has gotten them too.
Click to expand...
No problem at all with the give and take. Even loved the spoiler lobbying. What I don't like is a new car handed to Chevy because they couldn't get the first version right, and the subsequent parts and development freeze in addition to the screwing of Ford to ensure that the Chevy's dominate. Clearly, NASCAR went too far. Give US something back....let's keep that tradition alive!
 
Revman said:
Does Chevy or Ford put their NASCAR engine in anything on the consumer side? Right, neither do WE. It's a freaking race engine....stock went out of that a long time ago, and we all know that. Some who aren't biased might see that situation as a disadvantage for Toyota.
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This is a strawman argument. @cheesepuffs pointed out that NASCAR adjusted their terms to allow Toyota to come in as an OEM without a pushrod V8. He did not point out that OEMs must have the same engines in their production models. Whether intentional or not, you’re not arguing the case that he made, you’re making one up.
 
Revman said:
Yeah, on the 2018 NOSE in '17 after winning the manufacturers championship in '16.....so, the risk was great because the '16 car was so good. It's that whole selling cars thing. Can't think of a better way to get people excited about a model than to introduce it on the track. Solid point, however.

Does Chevy or Ford put their NASCAR engine in anything on the consumer side? Right, neither do WE. It's a freaking race engine....stock went out of that a long time ago, and we all know that. Some who aren't biased might see that situation as a disadvantage for Toyota.
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My point is that the rule was that the manufacturer entering the series needed to at least offer a production pushrod V8, and then Toyota was given special treatment to get around that. And I'm not biased, so don't put words in my mouth. I current own a Toyota. But just because I own a certain street car doesn't mean I need to shill for the brand like there's a gun to my head.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
This is a strawman argument. @cheesepuffs pointed out that NASCAR adjusted their terms to allow Toyota to come in as an OEM without a pushrod V8. He did not point out that OEMs must have the same engines in their production models. Whether intentional or not, you’re not arguing the case that he made, you’re making one up.
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That's exactly it. The constant moving of the goalposts is ridiculous and the constant defense of a corporation by this guy where the company he sides with doesn't even know he exists has gotten to the point of being laughable.

They are just an international profit mill. They do not value you. You are a dollar sign on a piece of paper. You hold the power as the customer with the cash and the freewill to spend your money as you please, not the other way around. They aren't perfect and neither is Ford or Chevy.
 
Ford 222 said:
It’s more of a HMS advantage. Same one they had when the 24/48 dominated. Awesome teams and drivers are deadly combinations. Combined with Chads leadership....rest of them are in trouble. No awesome drivers yet....but they have potential.
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On the flip side, over at SHR, you have Harvick running decent, but he gets to compare setups with Briscoe, Custer and Almirola. I can't imagine that he gets much useful info there. Not like he did with Newman and Bush.
 
cheesepuffs said:
That's exactly it. The constant moving of the goalposts is ridiculous and the constant defense of a corporation by this guy where the company he sides with doesn't even know he exists has gotten to the point of being laughable.

They are just an international profit mill. They do not value you. You are a dollar sign on a piece of paper. You hold the power as the customer with the cash and the freewill to spend your money as you please, not the other way around. They aren't perfect and neither is Ford or Chevy.
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The goalposts were set at why the hell Chevy got a brand new car that would only last one year at a time when the industry was trying to save money and heading into a parts and development freeze. So there is that. Shilling and all of that other stuff bores me because it's more of an opinion stated as fact thing.
 
StandOnIt said:
Cry us a river Rev. Some parts of the U.S. need the rain.
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Rivers should be fine for a few years more after your '19 babble. Now, we have your NASCAR just like you like it, right? While we are here, how about I ask you that seriously (doubt you will answer).....Is this the NASCAR parity you seek? I hate parity, so this is your baby.....Whatcha got?
 
Greg said:
Rumor has it that Kleenex is fixing to sign on and sponsor this thread!!!!
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Left over from 2019 when domination was a bad thing apparently.
 
Revman said:
The goalposts were set at why the hell Chevy got a brand new car that would only last one year at a time when the industry was trying to save money and heading into a parts and development freeze. So there is that. Shilling and all of that other stuff bores me because it's more of an opinion stated as fact thing.
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Fill me in on this parts and development freeze.
 
Revman said:
Rivers should be fine for a few years more after your '19 babble. Now, we have your NASCAR just like you like it, right? While we are here, how about I ask you that seriously (doubt you will answer).....Is this the NASCAR parity you seek? I hate parity, so this is your baby.....Whatcha got?
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1624120593995.png
 
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