Gordon's Statement during the 600 is too telling

Revman said:
The goalposts were set at why the hell Chevy got a brand new car that would only last one year at a time when the industry was trying to save money and heading into a parts and development freeze.
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How does what the industry wants effect what individual teams do or want?

If the industry is urging a saving spree and your competition follows suit, it’s the perfect opportunity to ratchet up spending.

Competition is all about attacking your opponents weak spots. Nobody is expected to apologize for it either.
 
cheesepuffs said:
@Revman hypothetical question for you. If Toyota pulled out of NASCAR would you continue to follow the sport?
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That's a good question. Thank you for asking. I followed the sport before Toyota entered, but nowhere near with the intensity since Toyota entered. In my earlier days--prior to Toyota's entry--my cable company dumped TNN. So, I would drive 45 minutes each week to my parent's how to watch those races....again, this is before Toyota. The other factor would be where would Toyota be....in other words, my priority would be to follow the series that Toyota was in, and then perhaps NASCAR. If your point is to question my commitment to the sport--I see that as fair, and my answer candidly would be that while historically I have followed this series without Toyota, I would say that today I am only as committed as MY manufacturer....who, of course, doesn't know that I exist I am told. Bottom line, I am a Toyota shill (I am told) first, and everything else second when it comes to motorsports....and on the consumer side as well.
 
cheesepuffs said:
Ford - 4 wins
Chevy - 5 wins
Toyota - 5 wins

I'm not the one you quoted, but yes, obviously that is parity by definition.
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So you would be of the belief that the only performance metric is wins? Because we could got tit for tat on the Manufacturer Standings, but I won't bother if you are myopic.
 
Revman said:
That's a good question. Thank you for asking. I followed the sport before Toyota entered, but nowhere near with the intensity since Toyota entered. In my earlier days--prior to Toyota's entry--my cable company dumped TNN. So, I would drive 45 minutes each week to my parent's how to watch those races....again, this is before Toyota. The other factor would be where would Toyota be....in other words, my priority would be to follow the series that Toyota was in, and then perhaps NASCAR. If your point is to question my commitment to the sport--I see that as fair, and my answer candidly would be that while historically I have followed this series without Toyota, I would say that today I am only as committed as MY manufacturer....who, of course, doesn't know that I exist I am told. Bottom line, I am a Toyota shill (I am told) first, and everything else second when it comes to motorsports....and on the consumer side as well.
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and damn can he whine :cool:
 
Revman said:
So you would be of the belief that the only performance metric is wins?
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what in the hell is your idea then about parity? Nascar tries to keep it as even as possible..it ain't perfect but that is they way it is. They ran Chrysler off years ago for completely dominating the sport with the hemi for a whole year. Crowds disappeared. Even the Fords were telling Nascar to let them back in. They did, they let them run the Hemi next year on short tracks only. That was over 50 years ago.
 
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ChexOrWrex said:
How does what the industry wants effect what individual teams do or want?

If the industry is urging a saving spree and your competition follows suit, it’s the perfect opportunity to ratchet up spending.

Competition is all about attacking your opponents weak spots. Nobody is expected to apologize for it either.
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That is a joke. Why is NASCAR going Next Gen? Additionally, how many times have I heard that Toyota throws money at the sport....but when Chevy does it....Come on man.
 
StandOnIt said:
ungrateful and blind. Only 4 rice burners with speed and they have 5 wins and he is crying and bleeding all over the board. STFU :laugh:
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@StandOnIt on it babble. If I didn't love you so much, I would block you....instead of telling you to STFU. I won't thought because I think you get this sport....I learn a lot from you when you are not FOS.
 
StandOnIt said:
what in the hell is your idea then about parity? Nascar tries to keep it as even as possible..it ain't perfect but that is they way it is. They ran Chrysler off years ago for the hemi for a whole year. Crowds disappeared. Even the Fords were telling Nascar to let them back in. They did, they let the run the Hemi next year of short tracks only. That was over 50 years ago.
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Manufacturer Standings isn't bad place to start. Kind of an embarrassing question don't you think? I get what NASCAR tries to do and I am grateful as hell that they don't do it with BOP. However, you cannot give one manufacturer a brand new car specifically designed around a rules package, and freeze the competitors who have a car designed around something else. It would be another thing if Ford and Toyota were allowed to continue R & D. They can't. They are frozen. Let's add to this that NASCAR decided to hammer Ford which has destroyed Harvick. Yeah, never been a fan, but this isn't how I want to see him get his ass kicked. Jame Small mentioned this a couple of weeks ago...so it isn't just my babble.
 
StandOnIt said:
ungrateful and blind. Only 4 rice burners with speed and they have 5 wins and he is crying and bleeding all over the board. STFU :laugh:
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More greedy than ungrateful, honestly.
 
Revman said:
Revman said:
Explain.
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1624124142263.png
 
StandOnIt said:
View attachment 56003
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So, you are recognizing the lack of parity this season, and justifying it with the lack of parity in previous seasons? This. Is. Awesome....and then I will get @cheesepuffs telling me that each manufacturer needs to rock up and get to work. You guys are awesome. You come after me for bias (which I have repeatedly acknowledged), and then throw your anti-Toyota or anti-me crap as statements of fact. Wow.
 
Gm hasn't won a manufacturer championship since 2015...Why Rev do you keep on with this total B.S.
Revman said:
So, you are recognizing the lack of parity this season, and justifying it with the lack of parity in previous seasons? This. Is. Awesome....and then I will get @cheesepuffs telling me that each manufacturer needs to rock up and get to work. You guys are awesome. You come after me for bias (which I have repeatedly acknowledged), and then throw your anti-Toyota or anti-me crap as statements of fact. Wow.
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I'll let others be the judge of that, not surprised that you can grift up about anything.
 
Chevy has a gift, and they have a damn good driver exploiting it. Fact. When Next Gen kicks in TRD will kick ass if all things are equal (which they may not be) because they have set the standard in R & D.....everybody else will follow....until NASCAR engages their unofficial parity formula again. I don't hate the sport because of it, but while we are gushing over Chevy, let's call it what it is.
 
StandOnIt said:
Gm hasn't won a manufacturer championship since 2015...Why Rev do you keep on with this total B.S.

I'll let others be the judge of that, not surprised that you can grift up about anything.
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Maybe @cheesepuffs can tell us why Chevy hasn't been able to attack Ford and Toyota weaknesses until now.

By "others"....Are we talking the Chickie Nugget Gang again? Oh my. Can't wait until they chime in. Be gentle....I have a fragile self-esteem. Good God....Judged by a message board. LMAO.
 
Revman said:
Chevy has a gift, and they have a damn good driver exploiting it. Fact. When Next Gen kicks in TRD will kick ass if all things are equal (which they may not be) because they have set the standard in R & D.....everybody else will follow....until NASCAR engages their unofficial parity formula again. I don't hate the sport because of it, but while we are gushing over Chevy, let's call it what it is.
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More waaa and we will see about who does what with the new car.
 
Practice in a few.....Let's see if MY Toyotas can find something with the 750! You all carry on without me.....Keep the grease off of your keyboards...you might say something you regret!
 
Revman said:
That's a good question. Thank you for asking. I followed the sport before Toyota entered, but nowhere near with the intensity since Toyota entered. In my earlier days--prior to Toyota's entry--my cable company dumped TNN. So, I would drive 45 minutes each week to my parent's how to watch those races....again, this is before Toyota. The other factor would be where would Toyota be....in other words, my priority would be to follow the series that Toyota was in, and then perhaps NASCAR. If your point is to question my commitment to the sport--I see that as fair, and my answer candidly would be that while historically I have followed this series without Toyota, I would say that today I am only as committed as MY manufacturer....who, of course, doesn't know that I exist I am told. Bottom line, I am a Toyota shill (I am told) first, and everything else second when it comes to motorsports....and on the consumer side as well.
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Are you implying that the statement "Toyota does not know that Revman exists" is in any way false?

And who did you pull for in NASCAR before Toyota came along?
 
Revman said:
That is a joke. Why is NASCAR going Next Gen? Additionally, how many times have I heard that Toyota throws money at the sport....but when Chevy does it....Come on man.
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There was no "development freeze" just because there's a next-gen car on the way.
 
Revman said:
So you would be of the belief that the only performance metric is wins? Because we could got tit for tat on the Manufacturer Standings, but I won't bother if you are myopic.
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Well the metric Ford/GM/Toyota go by sure as **** isn't "who finished 9th the most this year"
 
Revman said:
So, you are recognizing the lack of parity this season, and justifying it with the lack of parity in previous seasons? This. Is. Awesome....and then I will get @cheesepuffs telling me that each manufacturer needs to rock up and get to work. You guys are awesome. You come after me for bias (which I have repeatedly acknowledged), and then throw your anti-Toyota or anti-me crap as statements of fact. Wow.
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"Lack of parity this season"??

I'm not "anti-Toyota" or "anti-Revman". I'm anti-bull****.
 
cheesepuffs said:
There was no "development freeze" just because there's a next-gen car on the way.
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Rev thinks this is a bad thing..and doesn't want parity until he does.

The situation, as relayed by Daytona 500 Champion Michael McDowell, is this: The current NASCAR Cup Series car is a lame duck, as NASCAR's NextGen car is being developed in anticipation of its debut in 2022. That debut, originally slated for 2021, let to a freeze on both research & development and parts manufacturing for existing parts. The COVID-19 pandemic, which delayed the debut of NextGen to 2022, resulted in even more freezes.

As a result, race teams are having to make do with and master the parts they have at their disposal rather than continue to develop new parts, which has allowed mid-level teams like McDowell's Front Row Motorsports to close the gap between them and the Joe Gibbs, Rick Hendricks, and Roger Penskes of the world.


"What I've seen is that a few years ago, every week or every month you had all new suspension, all new chassis designs, for one little gain," said McDowell. "One little aero gain underneath the car required all new spindles, all new brake ducts, all new suspension - We're talking about $50, $60, $70,000 a week in updates. And so when you had to submit what you had, and there's some wiggle room in there and you can still make things better and stronger, but you're not completely re-designing components, chassis, and everything that goes along with it, I believe has allowed us to catch up in the sense that we've always had quality people that knew what they were doing, we just were always so far behind that we were scrambling.



You aren't going to get more teams in the sport and a chance for other manufacturers if you can't get a handle on costs.
"What I've seen is that a few years ago, every week or every month you had all new suspension, all new chassis designs, for one little gain," said McDowell. "One little aero gain underneath the car required all new spindles, all new brake ducts, all new suspension - We're talking about $50, $60, $70,000 a week in updates.
 
cheesepuffs said:
Are you implying that the statement "Toyota does not know that Revman exists" is in any way false?

And who did you pull for in NASCAR before Toyota came along?
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Why are you asking after asserting? Bad optics as I like to say....

Love Dale Earnhardt Sr....always have and always will.....
 
StandOnIt said:
Rev thinks this is a bad thing..and doesn't want parity until he does.

The situation, as relayed by Daytona 500 Champion Michael McDowell, is this: The current NASCAR Cup Series car is a lame duck, as NASCAR's NextGen car is being developed in anticipation of its debut in 2022. That debut, originally slated for 2021, let to a freeze on both research & development and parts manufacturing for existing parts. The COVID-19 pandemic, which delayed the debut of NextGen to 2022, resulted in even more freezes.

As a result, race teams are having to make do with and master the parts they have at their disposal rather than continue to develop new parts, which has allowed mid-level teams like McDowell's Front Row Motorsports to close the gap between them and the Joe Gibbs, Rick Hendricks, and Roger Penskes of the world.


"What I've seen is that a few years ago, every week or every month you had all new suspension, all new chassis designs, for one little gain," said McDowell. "One little aero gain underneath the car required all new spindles, all new brake ducts, all new suspension - We're talking about $50, $60, $70,000 a week in updates. And so when you had to submit what you had, and there's some wiggle room in there and you can still make things better and stronger, but you're not completely re-designing components, chassis, and everything that goes along with it, I believe has allowed us to catch up in the sense that we've always had quality people that knew what they were doing, we just were always so far behind that we were scrambling.



You aren't going to get more teams in the sport and a chance for other manufacturers if you can't get a handle on costs.
"What I've seen is that a few years ago, every week or every month you had all new suspension, all new chassis designs, for one little gain," said McDowell. "One little aero gain underneath the car required all new spindles, all new brake ducts, all new suspension - We're talking about $50, $60, $70,000 a week in updates.
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So, are you disagreeing with @cheesepuffs?
 
cheesepuffs said:
Well the metric Ford/GM/Toyota go by sure as **** isn't "who finished 9th the most this year"
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OEM's realize that the Drivers Championship is the deal, but internally, they love the Manufacturers Championship IMO.
 
aunty dive said:
Has anyone changed their mind yet?
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Suspicions confirmed. Waiting for @StandOnIt to post the obvious parity from the Practice Times, and for @cheesepuffs to tell me that Toyota needs to spend more money on developing the Camry ignoring the freeze which existence he denies to become competitive. Complicated. I will still watch because I always do clinging to the hope of a miracle when can happen when you remember the 1980 USA Olympic Hockey Team. I love this sport, and all of its imperfections.
 
cheesepuffs said:
There was no "development freeze" just because there's a next-gen car on the way.
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The dude said that Ford and Toyota had their priorities better placed after HMS grabbed the top 4 positions at Dover, because Dover isn’t in the playoffs.

HMS has since dominated the podium at every type of track.

He has no idea whats going on behind the scenes as much as he wants to know.

That doesn’t make him a bad person, fan, or forum member. His type of passion is what the sport needs more of from fans. He just does a lot of grandstanding.

The freeze he’s referring to is an R&D freeze on parts for the current gen car that began this season. It’s not manufacturer specific, its across the board. Nobody is benefiting or being disadvantaged from it more than anyone else.
 
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