Gordon's Statement during the 600 is too telling

Just posting this picture for some context. JGR and HMS (others most likely too) often post time lapse of their cars being wrapped. This was posted last week.
 

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OldTimer said:
Back to the original post line, Gordon publicly contended that they did. That NASCAR gave Chevy a bone after having their butts kicked by Toyota and Ford...those were Gordon's words. Is it anecdotal, most certainly, is there a difference in how the Chevy runs on the intermediate high down force tracks? Most assuredly...

Was Chevy the only brand that submitted change requests since last year? I do not know. What I do know is that NASCAR implied last season that it would not accept any changes for this year so the smaller teams could use their stuff up. does not appear they held to that though.
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You are aware that the truth in this situation is unfashionable.....Chevy was the only one requesting a complete car change in '20. I would suspect that the concession for the other manufacturers was that NASCAR wouldn't take anything away from them....but then they did...and then development was frozen. Credit Chevy for building a car specifically designed for this rules package.....no credit to Chevy for taking over a freaking year trying to figure out how to use it. When it comes to how I view this sport (through the OEM lens), this has been a double failure on Chevy's part. COVID saved them, and gave them an extra year. That is not on NASCAR....that is not on anybody. The only reason we didn't see this level of dominance last year is because Chevy couldn't figure the car out....probably justifiable as new cars will have their teething issues, but come on...that had a complete failure for a baseline.....Bottom line....I would rather be about TRD chasing the obvious advantage Chevy has been gifted than about Chevy taking a year too long to figure it out.
 
StandOnIt said:
The only change I am aware of is a well publicized rounding of the nose of the Camaro because the pointed nose was a safety hazard at plate races because it was almost impossible to push another car without turning them sideways. Changes like this as I have heard have to be approved by all of the other OEM's.
You guys can talk about hoods, mudflaps, whatever. I haven't seen nothing that looks changed to me except a bit of a rounded hood. :idunno:
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How the hell can you keep posting this crap when I have repeatedly posted a source which has Knaus saying exactly the opposite? The same post that I have repeatedly asked you to respond to, but you won't? I mean, dude, really?
 
Revman said:
You are aware that the truth in this situation is unfashionable.....Chevy was the only one requesting a complete car change in '20. I would suspect that the concession for the other manufacturers was that NASCAR wouldn't take anything away from them....but then they did...and then development was frozen. Credit Chevy for building a car specifically designed for this rules package.....no credit to Chevy for taking over a freaking year trying to figure out how to use it. When it comes to how I view this sport (through the OEM lens), this has been a double failure on Chevy's part. COVID saved them, and gave them an extra year. That is not on NASCAR....that is not on anybody. The only reason we didn't see this level of dominance last year is because Chevy couldn't figure the car out....probably justifiable as new cars will have their teething issues, but come on...that had a complete failure for a baseline.....Bottom line....I would rather be about TRD chasing the obvious advantage Chevy has been gifted than about Chevy taking a year too long to figure it out.
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OK Rev, I have a question for you. If these body changes are such a HUGE deal, why are you almost the ONLY person I hearing bitching about it? I have heard not word one from Ford, Toyota, any of their teams, or even their shills in the media. I will also play devil's advocate with you and suggest that other advancements (like horsepower) and personnel changes that have only recently come to fruition, may be as big or a bigger reason for the recent Chevy success than the the bodywork. It has been suggested that with a sizeable increase in horsepower, the Chevy teams are no longer having to trim their cars out as much to gain speed, meaning they handle better. I could also be a smartass and suggest that the Chevy's only came into their own after NASCAR caught on to the cheated up Fords and Toyotas. I would also suggest that the timeline on Chevy improving was severely hampered by the pandemic and the inability to practice at the races. It's not easy for ANYBODY to implement and take advantage of meaningful changes to your car when your first lap on the track is during the race. The best sim program in the world only helps so much. Now I've said my peace and will let the rest of you continue to fight it out. :)
 
Revman said:
The only reason we didn't see this level of dominance last year is because Chevy couldn't figure the car out....
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Lmao what a load of ****. I think it’s obvious that the alliance with RCR has benefited HMS and RCR since last season’s playoffs, even Gustafson credited their alliance to the championship speed out of the #9 car. Now you are seeing the entire organization benefit from that data after the off season. A rising tide lifts all boats.

Chevy won yesterday but the Fords were also fast. You act like the world is on fire because JGR is having a rough go of it.
 
Formerjackman said:
OK Rev, I have a question for you. If these body changes are such a HUGE deal, why are you almost the ONLY person I hearing bitching about it? I have heard not word one from Ford, Toyota, any of their teams, or even their shills in the media. I will also play devil's advocate with you and suggest that other advancements (like horsepower) and personnel changes that have only recently come to fruition, may be as big or a bigger reason for the recent Chevy success than the the bodywork. It has been suggested that with a sizeable increase in horsepower, the Chevy teams are no longer having to trim their cars out as much to gain speed, meaning they handle better. I could also be a smartass and suggest that the Chevy's only came into their own after NASCAR caught on to the cheated up Fords and Toyotas. I would also suggest that the timeline on Chevy improving was severely hampered by the pandemic and the inability to practice at the races. It's not easy for ANYBODY to implement and take advantage of meaningful changes to your car when your first lap on the track is during the race. The best sim program in the world only helps so much. Now I've said my peace and will let the rest of you continue to fight it out. :)
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Kyle Busch this exact issue in exactly the same way I have in yesterday's pre-race. James Small did the same last week. Toyota and TRD don't whine. I do that for them. Next question.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Lmao what a load of ****. I think it’s obvious that the alliance with RCR has benefited HMS and RCR since last season’s playoffs, even Gustafson credited their alliance to the championship speed out of the #9 car. Now you are seeing the entire organization benefit from that data after the off season. A rising tide lifts all boats.

Chevy won yesterday but the Fords were also fast. You act like the world is on fire because JGR is having a rough go of it.
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Cool. To the dyno! Parity! Have to keep those horsepower numbers even. Thanks for the tip! Bunch of BS. Ford had nothing for the Chevys and neither did Toyota. Remember, I watch the races. Do you?

I am not really pissed about being the hunter rather than the hunted....but as KFB said, "...not complaining....just fact." Why are Chevy types so sensitive to this? I don't feel for one second that Chevy is cheating anymore than anybody else....they don't have to. Be grateful. Geez. Search the **** I listened to in '19.
 
Formerjackman said:
OK Rev, I have a question for you. If these body changes are such a HUGE deal, why are you almost the ONLY person I hearing bitching about it? I have heard not word one from Ford, Toyota, any of their teams, or even their shills in the media. I will also play devil's advocate with you and suggest that other advancements (like horsepower) and personnel changes that have only recently come to fruition, may be as big or a bigger reason for the recent Chevy success than the the bodywork. It has been suggested that with a sizeable increase in horsepower, the Chevy teams are no longer having to trim their cars out as much to gain speed, meaning they handle better. I could also be a smartass and suggest that the Chevy's only came into their own after NASCAR caught on to the cheated up Fords and Toyotas. I would also suggest that the timeline on Chevy improving was severely hampered by the pandemic and the inability to practice at the races. It's not easy for ANYBODY to implement and take advantage of meaningful changes to your car when your first lap on the track is during the race. The best sim program in the world only helps so much. Now I've said my peace and will let the rest of you continue to fight it out. :)
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Just wanted to complete my reply....Horsepower is supposed to be close, right? So a sizable increase? I mean, it kind of gets comical....all the Chevy apologists can't get out of their own way. I don't want anything taken away from Chevy, but maybe NASCAR could see it in their hearts to unfreeze everything so that MY TRD folks could fire back? Chevy isn't cheating, but I heard a load of that **** in '19. So, I get confused....on one hand, it's the personal that is responsible for the Chevy resurgence, and then on the other the pandemic hampered them I taking advantage of a car that had no advantage? Come on man. New car specifically designed for this package. Any personal changes had everything to do with jettisoning those who were an embarrassment to the brand in favor of those who had 1/2 a clue. Knaus is loving this, but I Mickey Mouse could be running this show and looking like a hero.
 
Just to set the record straight, you didn't hear any of that complaining from ME. My contention all along was that Chevy and the Chevy teams needed to step up their game. I tried to send the warning clear back in 2017 that Chevy was off their game and got ridiculed for it until it was so obvious Stevie Wonder could see it. (Remember all of those people that were so sure Chad and Jimmie were just waiting to flip the switch?) The ONLY reason I have commented on this topic at all is that I feel like the Chevy guys were unfairly attacked. Whatever you think of the reasoning, Chevy didn't do anything that NASCAR didn't allow them to, and I am quite sure Ford and Toyota could have too, so if you have a beef, I think it should be leveled at NASCAR, not Chevy. You are always going around questioning Chevy's commitment to winning, well they made major commitment that they THOUGHT was only going to be for one year, and it paid off handsomely with their most popular driving getting a championship, and they ended up getting a "free year" out of it too. Good for them. Maybe it's Toyota that wasn't committed enough to keep stepping up their game. (Said tongue in cheek). As for the engines, the 550 HP and the 750 HP targets have always been just that, a target. As long as teams and manufacturers can continue to get more power out of the same basic parts, NASCAR isn't likely to intervene, especially knowing that the rules will be different next year anyway. I'm quite sure that if TRD had been the ones to find that extra power, you would be shouting from the rooftops about how brilliant they are. I'm just going to go out on a limb and say by playoff time, all three makes will be back on roughly equal footing horsepower wise. No advantage lasts very long in NASCAR. The question will be whether Chevy has some more tricks up their sleeve. I respect your passion and even admire you fandom, by as I said in an earlier post, don't be myopic about it. I like MY team, but I'm not going to make excuses for them, make them out to be something they're not, or blame others for playing the game better than my guys do. Toyota's way of doing business has fundamentally changed the sport in ways that I personally don't care for, but I also realize that it's effective, and if you want to beat them, you have to play the game by the rules the aggressor sets, whether you like them or not. I get why you're upset though. With all of TRD's resources and that murder's row lineup of drivers, every other team out there should just be happy if they can finish 5th every week, and now they've went and got all uppity and started winning races, with their lesser talent and lesser resources........:sarcasm:;)
 
Revman said:
I don't want anything taken away from Chevy, but maybe NASCAR could see it in their hearts to unfreeze everything so that MY TRD folks could fire back?
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Wait a minute.

You want to unfreeze a 2021 freeze due to performance improvements by HMS and RCR in late 2020? Because TRD couldn’t make similar improvements when they had the same opportunities as everyone else?

Maybe if Joe stopped sucking up and murdering all the Toyota competition, they’d have more teams to work with.

Get ahold of yourself man.
 
Revman said:
How the hell can you keep posting this crap when I have repeatedly posted a source which has Knaus saying exactly the opposite? The same post that I have repeatedly asked you to respond to, but you won't? I mean, dude, really?
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because it is just that simple:
Changes like this as I have heard have to be approved by all of the other OEM's.
 
Revman said:
Cool. To the dyno! Parity! Have to keep those horsepower numbers even. Thanks for the tip! Bunch of BS.
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I don't get it. You complain about the desire for parity, meaning, in other words, you are not in favor of parity. But then when Toyota is being beaten you're saying you want Toyota to be given concessions to catch back up? That's what parity is.
 
cheesepuffs said:
I don't get it. You complain about the desire for parity, meaning, in other words, you are not in favor of parity. But then when Toyota is being beaten you're saying you want Toyota to be given concessions to catch back up? That's what parity is.
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Actually, I don't care about parity, but I heard so much about it in '19 that the crickets over the current situation are really pissing me off. All of this is laughable man.
 
Old Kid said:
Reading with detached amusement.

It was so much simpler when the argument was just about how much spoiler the other guy had.
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You mean when NASCAR cognized that a team had an unreasonable advantage, and did something about it? Yeah, I agree.
 
StandOnIt said:
because it is just that simple:
Changes like this as I have heard have to be approved by all of the other OEM's.
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You still won't respond to Knaus' comments...wonder why? Where was your bold print when Toyota changed all of those noses you bitch about? Where was your retort when @cheesepuffs yammered about the early release of the new Camry nose....which was really a nose? Dude, this has gotten ridiculous. See, back in the day which you supposedly know about the OEM's would banter back and forth. Totally biased and in good fun. What you try to do is justify the very thing you hate (OEM dominance) unless it serves the manufacturers you like....I guess anybody but Toyota. I get it, but don't shroud your bias in perceived statements of fact because it gets silly. Chevy has a new car....specifically designed for the current rules package....driven by a great driver....and there is not a ****** thing anybody can do about it because of the parts and development freeze. I will still watch and so will so.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Because TRD couldn’t make similar improvements when they had the same opportunities as everyone else?
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Dude.....Chevy has a brand new car. The opportunities are not the same. Come on man.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Lmao what a load of ****. I think it’s obvious that the alliance with RCR has benefited HMS and RCR since last season’s playoffs, even Gustafson credited their alliance to the championship speed out of the #9 car. Now you are seeing the entire organization benefit from that data after the off season. A rising tide lifts all boats.

Chevy won yesterday but the Fords were also fast. You act like the world is on fire because JGR is having a rough go of it.
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LMAO.
 
Revman said:
Actually, I don't care about parity, but I heard so much about it in '19 that the crickets over the current situation are really pissing me off. All of this is laughable man.
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Earlier in this thread or a different one, I can't remember, you were basically saying that this is just a forum and therefor this place or peoples' comments here cannot offend you. Yet you've referred back multiple times now to a conversation from two years ago, that the other person doesn't really remember, that is still haunting you, and you just said that this situation is "really pissing you off".

I'm not being facetious here when I say that you may want to take a break from this place. Social media and/or forums can be wearing on people after awhile and sometimes stepping away for a bit can be a good thing.
 
Revman said:
You still won't respond to Knaus' comments...wonder why? Where was your bold print when Toyota changed all of those noses you bitch about? Where was your retort when @cheesepuffs yammered about the early release of the new Camry nose....which was really a nose? Dude, this has gotten ridiculous. See, back in the day which you supposedly know about the OEM's would banter back and forth. Totally biased and in good fun. What you try to do is justify the very thing you hate (OEM dominance) unless it serves the manufacturers you like....I guess anybody but Toyota. I get it, but don't shroud your bias in perceived statements of fact because it gets silly. Chevy has a new car....specifically designed for the current rules package....driven by a great driver....and there is not a ****** thing anybody can do about it because of the parts and development freeze. I will still watch and so will so.
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maybe you should write a book?

Chevy comes with a new car for 2020: Camaro ZL1 1LE​

NASCAR collects cars from each manufacture to conduct wind tunnel tests at random points of the season. This allows NASCAR to get a read on the drag and downforce levels. They want to make sure all three manufactures are close to each other thus creating a fair racing series.

In this case, Chevy was way behind on the numbers. So, NASCAR allowed them to adjust the Camaro that previously made it’s debut in 2018.
 
StandOnIt said:
maybe you should write a book?

Chevy comes with a new car for 2020: Camaro ZL1 1LE​

NASCAR collects cars from each manufacture to conduct wind tunnel tests at random points of the season. This allows NASCAR to get a read on the drag and downforce levels. They want to make sure all three manufactures are close to each other thus creating a fair racing series.

In this case, Chevy was way behind on the numbers. So, NASCAR allowed them to adjust the Camaro that previously made it’s debut in 2018.
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GM honestly got the last laugh out of the bunch.

Just reaping the benefits of the few changes made prior to the development freeze, I think the for the most part the parity is there... It's just Kyle Larson is just ripping it up making it seem one-sided at the moment.
 
Kiante said:
GM honestly got the last laugh out of the bunch.

Just reaping the benefits of the few changes made prior to the development freeze, I think the for the most part the parity is there... It's just Kyle Larson is just ripping it up making it seem one-sided at the moment.
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Yep, even Bowman, Elliott, or Byron can't hang with him most of the time and they are in the same cars as him. ;)
 
Jeez guys, it been two weeks already, sometimes you just have to agree to disagree and move on.
 
cheesepuffs said:
Earlier in this thread or a different one, I can't remember, you were basically saying that this is just a forum and therefor this place or peoples' comments here cannot offend you. Yet you've referred back multiple times now to a conversation from two years ago, that the other person doesn't really remember, that is still haunting you, and you just said that this situation is "really pissing you off".

I'm not being facetious here when I say that you may want to take a break from this place. Social media and/or forums can be wearing on people after awhile and sometimes stepping away for a bit can be a good thing.
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Not sure what you are talking about.....but poor word choice on my part. All good. Thanks for the concern.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
The opportunities were the same, the results are not the same. That’s literally racing.
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Everybody gets a new car for one year? At some point, what is good for the sport needs to be considered. That's literally common sense.
 
Revman said:
Everybody gets a new car for one year? At some point, what is good for the sport needs to be considered. That's literally common sense.
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In 2020 while HMS and RCR were building their alliance and Chevy reformed their product, what were Ford and Toyota doing?
 
Revman said:
Everybody gets a new car for one year? At some point, what is good for the sport needs to be considered. That's literally common sense.
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That's a NASCAR problem, not a Chevy problem. You simply cannot blame Chevy for taking full advantage of what NASCAR allowed. The fact that your favorite brand chose not to go down that road is NOT Chevy's fault.
 
Formerjackman said:
That's a NASCAR problem, not a Chevy problem. You simply cannot blame Chevy for taking full advantage of what NASCAR allowed. The fact that your favorite brand chose not to go down that road is NOT Chevy's fault.
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You are right. That is a NASCAR problem, Chevy is part of NASCAR....so is Toyota and Ford. See, they have this Next Gen car which kind of an agreement between all OEMs to manage costs in the best interest of the sport. Am I right? And before @StandOnIt goes on another rant, let's ask this question....How would all of this been received if Toyota had done this? They were accused of overspending before they had spent a dime. Why is what Chevy did so hard for Chevy fans to ingest?
 
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