Hate to say I told you so.........

Whiskyb

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I think the Nascar mandated gun should be the first issue of concern. Having used impact guns for over 40 years I know my gun. If and when I use someone else's, I cannot feel it right.
 

wi_racefan

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I think the Nascar mandated gun should be the first issue of concern. Having used impact guns for over 40 years I know my gun. If and when I use someone else's, I cannot feel it right.
I thought they changed it this year? Yeah it's a mandated gun and nascar holds it during the week, but I thought they now use the same gun every week. That way teams can modify grips and tape as they see fit.

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Whiskyb

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Im not very familiar with the actual process, that would be better but not as good as just letting the guy have his own gun.
 

wi_racefan

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You can't do that because then it's only a matter of time before teams are modifying them again, nascar has to take them apart every week to make sure they haven't been modified and costs spiral out of control again. Team owners are the ones that asked for this in the first place.

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KTMLew01

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I think the Nascar mandated gun should be the first issue of concern. Having used impact guns for over 40 years I know my gun. If and when I use someone else's, I cannot feel it right.
A 1 inch truck gun wouldn't remove the nut. Stuff happens. But not normally this often. As bunch of us have asked, why doesn't IndyCar & other series have such issue with single nut wheels? The answers are...the pit stops are changed to suit the equipment. That's likely to happen in Cup too. It's inevitable a wheel-off will result in a car vaulting over it with the wheel becoming a projectile injuring someone. Or they can fix the issue. Like having the guy with the gun decide when he's done. Not the jack man or crew chief.

And air jacks. Lets get out of 1970 and into the current world. Turbo 4 & V-6's. If we gonna do it, let's do it.
 

9050lx

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A 1 inch truck gun wouldn't remove the nut. Stuff happens. But not normally this often. As bunch of us have asked, why doesn't IndyCar & other series have such issue with single nut wheels? The answers are...the pit stops are changed to suit the equipment. That's likely to happen in Cup too. It's inevitable a wheel-off will result in a car vaulting over it with the wheel becoming a projectile injuring someone. Or they can fix the issue. Like having the guy with the gun decide when he's done. Not the jack man or crew chief.

And air jacks. Lets get out of 1970 and into the current world. Turbo 4 & V-6's. If we gonna do it, let's do it.
I think the Nascar mandated gun should be the first issue of concern. Having used impact guns for over 40 years I know my gun. If and when I use someone else's, I cannot feel it right.
Did the nut embed itself into the softer hub material? Did the nut distort enough to lock onto the threads?The crew members explanation is not clear as to what happened.
 

2 Sweet

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I thought the single lug system was "necessary" due to the lighter wheel? They said pairing the old 5-lug hub with the new aluminum wheel could be problematic if one or two lugs weren't tight, causing a loose wheel condition, increasing the possibility of a broken wheel. The centerlock hub eliminates that problem.....in theory.

So unless we go back to steel wheels (we aren't), I don't see any possibility of going back to five lugs.
 

KTMLew01

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I thought the single lug system was "necessary" due to the lighter wheel? They said pairing the old 5-lug hub with the new aluminum wheel could be problematic if one or two lugs weren't tight, causing a loose wheel condition, increasing the possibility of a broken wheel. The centerlock hub eliminates that problem.....in theory.

So unless we go back to steel wheels (we aren't), I don't see any possibility of going back to five lugs.
Going back to 15" wheels would also require changing the brakes.
 

Formerjackman

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A 1 inch truck gun wouldn't remove the nut. Stuff happens. But not normally this often. As bunch of us have asked, why doesn't IndyCar & other series have such issue with single nut wheels? The answers are...the pit stops are changed to suit the equipment. That's likely to happen in Cup too. It's inevitable a wheel-off will result in a car vaulting over it with the wheel becoming a projectile injuring someone. Or they can fix the issue. Like having the guy with the gun decide when he's done. Not the jack man or crew chief.

And air jacks. Lets get out of 1970 and into the current world. Turbo 4 & V-6's. If we gonna do it, let's do it.
As you can guess, I am 100% against air jacks. Why is everyone in such a damn hurry to eliminate the human element from the pit stop? Those guys are competing just as much as the drivers. Also, at least the way I was taught, the car leaves on the drop of the jack. As the jackman, it is YOUR responsibility not to release the car early. You MUST watch your tire changers and KNOW what is going on. One of the wheel issues at Darlington was absolutely on the jackman for losing situational awareness.
 

KTMLew01

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As you can guess, I am 100% against air jacks. Why is everyone in such a damn hurry to eliminate the human element from the pit stop? Those guys are competing just as much as the drivers. Also, at least the way I was taught, the car leaves on the drop of the jack. As the jackman, it is YOUR responsibility not to release the car early. You MUST watch your tire changers and KNOW what is going on. One of the wheel issues at Darlington was absolutely on the jackman for losing situational awareness.
Main thing they need is better communication between the crew. Do we NEED 9 second stops? I'd prefer cars racing without concern wheels are gonna come off.
 

9050lx

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Still no one has mentioned why the lug nut was stuck.Did it embed into the aluminum rim?Still can't believe that 3/4 or 1inch drive impact couldn't budge the nut.Must be a hard son ofa gun type steel nut. No one here knows? I wonder if the large impact they attempted to use sheared off the engagement ears.
 

Formerjackman

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But but it's Nascar's fault, they shoulda coulda woulda.
It IS ultimately NASCAR's fault, because they made a change that didn't NEED to be made. I'm fine with NASCAR being a dictatorship, but that means you have to be willing to take the blame when things don't go well. I don't know why some see such a need to CONSTANTLY kiss NASCAR's ass at every turn. They have never done a single thing for me personally, and until they put me on their payroll, I'm not carrying their water for them. I'm not too worried about them. They can dry their tears with 100 dollar bills. It's pretty much like the RTA. A cabal of car owners pledging to fix all the things they mostly screwed up in the first place.
 

StandOnIt

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It IS ultimately NASCAR's fault, because they made a change that didn't NEED to be made. I'm fine with NASCAR being a dictatorship, but that means you have to be willing to take the blame when things don't go well. I don't know why some see such a need to CONSTANTLY kiss NASCAR's ass at every turn. They have never done a single thing for me personally, and until they put me on their payroll, I'm not carrying their water for them. I'm not too worried about them. They can dry their tears with 100 dollar bills. It's pretty much like the RTA. A cabal of car owners pledging to fix all the things they mostly screwed up in the first place.
yeah I figured as much. The king of 20/20 hindsight coulda woulda shoulda. With or without the YELLING B.S.

You have one job. Put the damn tire on the car.
 

Jorge De Guzman

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The teams wanted NASCAR to mandate a pit gun for all.
It's nobody believes that you told EVERYBODY a year ago is the problem lol. Ya got nothin but 20/20 hindsight.
in all fairness I do remember The Jackman saying there would be issues with one lug when it was announced gosh….maybe 1st quarter of last year? I think you might find it in the Gen 7 thread. The Jackman made this thread after the Daytona 500 of this year
 

Charlie Spencer

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yeah I figured as much. The king of 20/20 hindsight coulda woulda shoulda. With or without the YELLING B.S.

You have one job. Put the damn tire on the car.
35 other teams each changed 4 wheels at least 7 times at Kansas without issue. 980 changes without problems, not including at least 23 successful changes by #43 team, and they know what the problem on the 28th. We've had more races now without issues than races that had problems, and the number has decreased as teams gain experience. Everyone knew there would be learning curve.
 

Charlie Spencer

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Ambassador Loury: "Kirk, I'm going to report you to Starfleet Command! You're not taking this project seriously!"
Captain Kirk: "On the contrary, I take this project quite seriously, Mr. Ambassador. It is you I take lightly."
 

StandOnIt

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The teams wanted NASCAR to mandate a pit gun for all.

in all fairness I do remember The Jackman saying there would be issues with one lug when it was announced gosh….maybe 1st quarter of last year? I think you might find it in the Gen 7 thread. The Jackman made this thread after the Daytona 500 of this year
There were a number of us that voiced concerns about the one lug setup, he's not the first or the last. Anybody naive enough to think there wouldn't be problems with 5 lugs never looked at the weekly penalties assessed to teams with loose lugs.
 

Kiante

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35 other teams each changed 4 wheels at least 7 times at Kansas without issue. 980 changes without problems, not including at least 23 successful changes by #43 team, and they know what the problem on the 28th. We've had more races now without issues than races that had problems, and the number has decreased as teams gain experience. Everyone knew there would be learning curve.
I think Justin Fiedler, the rear tire changer for the 43, gave a little detail on why it happened:


I mean we all saw the lug was basically welded on and it was a massive mistake, but maybe Paoli could consider allowing crew to use torque sensors, which they have, to show how much torque the lug has. I think it has multiple LEDS to show just give an idea how much torque has been added.

I'm just spit-balling as it would take out the challenge of crew members getting it right the first time out, that's JMO though.
 

LewTheShoe

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I think @Formerjackman should provide us with a link to his original post admonishing Nascar to stick with 15" steel wheels with 5 lug nuts for the Next Gen car. If you are going to start an "I Told You So..." thread, it's not too much to ask for a link to him telling us so.

The move to 18" wheels with lower-profile tires was a primary design objective of Goodyear and all three OEM's. It was a big deal to them, somehing about relevance of the Next Gen to production street cars, blah, blah, blah. They also told us that 18" steel wheels are too heavy, and aluminium wheels need the single center lock (for technical reasons, I don't recall the details). And of course, everyone wanted the bigger brakes.

So sticking with 5 lugs means sticking with 15" wheels, and Jackman should show us where he said to do that and abandon the major design objectives of the four largest sponsors of the sport... Goodyear, Chevrolet, Ford, and Toyota.
 

10-4

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We put people people on the moon but they can't make a 5 lug wheel for these bigger brakes on this car? That's hard to believe.
 

Greg

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We put people people on the moon but they can't make a 5 lug wheel for these bigger brakes on this car? That's hard to believe.
Moon vehicle wasn't a 5 lug, it used a single lug too.
apollo15lunarrover2.jpeg.jpg
 
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