Hate to say I told you so.........

I keep hearing the same "but the other 35 teams......." rant when the fact is the wheel situation has affected many teams.
Teams from all oems. Teams with all degrees of pit crew skill.
To say that the issue is strictly a human error situation is ignoring a lot of data.
 
Old 97 said:
I keep hearing the same "but the other 35 teams......." rant when the fact is the wheel situation has affected many teams.
Teams from all oems. Teams with all degrees of pit crew skill.
To say that the issue is strictly a human error situation is ignoring a lot of data.
Click to expand...
Is that data available?

Is someone doing a Root Cause Analysis to find out WHY this is happening?
 
aunty dive said:
Is that data available?

Is someone doing a Root Cause Analysis to find out WHY this is happening?
Click to expand...
one that is blatantly obvious to the naked eye is the number of penalties and fines the teams had to pay for having loose lugs compared to the single lug.
 
LewTheShoe said:
I think @Formerjackman should provide us with a link to his original post admonishing Nascar to stick with 15" steel wheels with 5 lug nuts for the Next Gen car. If you are going to start an "I Told You So..." thread, it's not too much to ask for a link to him telling us so.

The move to 18" wheels with lower-profile tires was a primary design objective of Goodyear and all three OEM's. It was a big deal to them, somehing about relevance of the Next Gen to production street cars, blah, blah, blah. They also told us that 18" steel wheels are too heavy, and aluminium wheels need the single center lock (for technical reasons, I don't recall the details). And of course, everyone wanted the bigger brakes.

So sticking with 5 lugs means sticking with 15" wheels, and Jackman should show us where he said to do that and abandon the major design objectives of the four largest sponsors of the sport... Goodyear, Chevrolet, Ford, and Toyota.
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Just to be clear, I do not, nor have I EVER had an issue with going to a larger wheel size, and I am fully in favor of using aluminum wheels. My one and ONLY issue has been the single lugs. If somebody wants to go chasing my original comments, knock yourself out. I'm not going to waste MY time doing it.
 
Old 97 said:
I keep hearing the same "but the other 35 teams......." rant when the fact is the wheel situation has affected many teams.
Teams from all oems. Teams with all degrees of pit crew skill.
To say that the issue is strictly a human error situation is ignoring a lot of data.
Click to expand...
Since I'm the last one to play that card, I'll take a shot a reply.

It's not affecting any one team on a consistent basis. Many teams have had issues, but none of them are having problems consistently, week in and week out. Some teams haven't had a problem yet.

The number of teams having problems in a race has gone down each week since the start of the season. Now we go two or three races consecutively without a wheel problem. That sounds like the result of increased experience to me.

If multiple teams were having problems over multiple races with no decline in the incident rate, a case could be made for a systemic problem. One wheel out of over 1000 changes last week is an individual issue.
 
StandOnIt said:
one that is blatantly obvious to the naked eye is the number of penalties and fines the teams had to pay for having loose lugs compared to the single lug.
Click to expand...

The number of penalties issued is irrelevant. The number of loose wheels bouncing around the race track is what is important, and that number has gone from statistically zero to about every other week. The issue with the five lug wheels was guys trying to game the system, and while the penalty was overly harsh in my opinion, I have no issue with a penalty. The difference now is NOBODY is purposely leaving stuff loose, and yet it STILL happens, and it will continue to happen.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Since I'm the last one to play that card, I'll take a shot a reply.

It's not affecting any one team on a consistent basis. Many teams have had issues, but none of them are having problems consistently, week in and week out. Some teams haven't had a problem yet.

The number of teams having problems in a race has gone down each week since the start of the season. Now we go two or three races consecutively without a wheel problem. That sounds like the result of increased experience to me.

If multiple teams were having problems over multiple races with no decline in the incident rate, a case could be made for a systemic problem. One wheel out of over 1000 changes last week is an individual issue.
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I'm not sure of the loose wheel you are talking about. They had one loose wheel in the pits, but that was because of Bubba's team failing to get it to the pit wall after it was taken off. Were they're others?
 
Oh, and it's not like NASCAR is breaking new ground here. Multiple other series have used single-nut for decades without these issues. That alone indicates a training / experience problem.
 
Formerjackman said:
The number of penalties issued is irrelevant. The number of loose wheels bouncing around the race track is what is important, and that number has gone from statistically zero to about every other week. The issue with the five lug wheels was guys trying to game the system, and while the penalty was overly harsh in my opinion, I have no issue with a penalty. The difference now is NOBODY is purposely leaving stuff loose, and yet it STILL happens, and it will continue to happen.
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It's relevant if you are paying for them or sitting out races because of it. :dunce:
 
Charlie Spencer said:
Oh, and it's not like NASCAR is breaking new ground here. Multiple other series have used single-nut for decades without these issues. That alone indicates a training / experience problem.
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Something that adds drama and suspense to the race isn't tolerated at R-F unless it is their idea. Nascar's version of pit stops have always done that.
Charlie Spencer said:
Since I'm the last one to play that card, I'll take a shot a reply.

It's not affecting any one team on a consistent basis. Many teams have had issues, but none of them are having problems consistently, week in and week out. Some teams haven't had a problem yet.

The number of teams having problems in a race has gone down each week since the start of the season. Now we go two or three races consecutively without a wheel problem. That sounds like the result of increased experience to me.

If multiple teams were having problems over multiple races with no decline in the incident rate, a case could be made for a systemic problem. One wheel out of over 1000 changes last week is an individual issue.
Click to expand...
The loose wheel on pit road rolling around was because a tire changer muffed the roll back to the pit wall was what I thought you were talking about. The other on the 43 was because of another tire changer mistake..
 
I doubt very few here needed to be told that the change to a single nut might have its problems. But the problem does need to be fixed, and I imagine it will be in due time. We all know that Indy cars don't have this problem, but I wonder if the fact that the Indy cars are half the weight might play into their success with a single nut. They may have to go to a different type of thread or some kind of lock nut or even double nut. That would take a little longer but if everyone has to do it then there is no disadvantage to anyone. I haven't followed this subject a lot so what are the teams saying they think the problem is and do they have any ideas for a good solution to the wheels coming off?
 
Nitro Dude said:
I doubt very few here needed to be told that the change to a single nut might have its problems. But the problem does need to be fixed, and I imagine it will be in due time. We all know that Indy cars don't have this problem, but I wonder if the fact that the Indy cars are half the weight might play into their success with a single nut. They may have to go to a different type of thread or some kind of lock nut or even double nut. That would take a little longer but if everyone has to do it then there is no disadvantage to anyone. I haven't followed this subject a lot so what are the teams saying they think the problem is and do they have any ideas for a good solution to the wheels coming off?
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It's a simple fix. Tighten the damn nut lol.
 
Nitro Dude said:
I thought I read somewhere that they were having some Gaulding and cross threading problems also...and over tightening the nut problems.
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Put the nut AND the gun on the threads THEN pull the trigger. The problem with the 43 was they couldn't get the nut loose. The nut putting the nut on jacked the gun trigger on full spin before he touched the threads on the spindle. The guns aren't designed for that so he over torqued it like crazy. I'm sure many teams already knew you shouldn't do that, but the ones that didn't know, they know now. That was a holdover for what they did when they had 5 to tighten. Live and learn
 
10-4 said:
We put people people on the moon but they can't make a 5 lug wheel for these bigger brakes on this car? That's hard to believe.
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How do wide 5 wheels stay on bouncing thus holes with 14" wide tires? I still say, make an adapter to bolt to the car with 5 lugs sticking out. Still have to change the brakes tho.
 
Old 97 said:
I keep hearing the same "but the other 35 teams......." rant when the fact is the wheel situation has affected many teams.
Teams from all oems. Teams with all degrees of pit crew skill.
To say that the issue is strictly a human error situation is ignoring a lot of data.
Click to expand...
How about the admission of a crew member data?
 
StandOnIt said:
It's a simple fix. Tighten the damn nut lol.
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Or don't tighten it so much,lol. I am amazed a large impact would'nt break the nut loose, and the fact the hub still had usable threads after the 43 crew maligned that wheel.Maybe a steel spacer/flange built into the center of the wheel under which the lug nut could be torqued to steel on steel. Heck, maybe it is already setup like this.
 
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