If you wanna keep up with the Snowball Derby

In other news, Tom Brady won the Punt, Pass and Kick competition during halftime of the Patriots game.
 
So who was the hot shoe that Kyle out ran at the Snowball?
 
Formerjackman said:
In other news, Tom Brady won the Punt, Pass and Kick competition during halftime of the Patriots game.
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LOL. There is a lot of hypocrisy used to justify why top series drivers should be prohibited from racing Xfinity and Trucks, but it's OK for them to enter the Snowball Derby, other short track races, the Daytona 24 Hours, etc. The same arguments about stealing the money, glory, and fame apply to Xfinity and these other events as well, IMO.

For the record, I favor racers being free to race outside their normal day job without prohibition... the way it has always been.
 
Bobby Allison, Davey Allison, Dale Sr., Rusty Wallace, Mark Martin, Johnny Benson and Dick Trickle have all ran the Snowball Derby. And I'm sure I'm leaving some names out. None of them ever won it. Darrell Waltrip, Donnie Allison, Rich Bickle, Kurt Busch and Chase Elliot have all won it. So it's not uncommon for Cup drivers to run the Derby. It's more uncommon that they win it. And an interesting fact, Tammy Jo Kirk and Johanna Long both won it. No small accomplishment. Usually 20-25 cars don't make the field. I haven't seen the numbers for this years event. It's a big deal for whoever wins it. I remember reading an article in Circle Track magazine, somewhere in the vicinity of 1986, They had interviewed Bobby Allison. He stated, as long as he races there were two races he would run every year, the Snowball Derby and the Daytona 500. The Derby has always been a drivers race, in my opinion. Not a big media event, where every word and action is scrutinized to a tee. It's a racers race. I hope it stays that way.
 
mack said:
Bobby Allison, Davey Allison, Dale Sr., Rusty Wallace, Mark Martin, Johnny Benson and Dick Trickle have all ran the Snowball Derby. And I'm sure I'm leaving some names out. None of them ever won it. Darrell Waltrip, Donnie Allison, Rich Bickle, Kurt Busch and Chase Elliot have all won it. So it's not uncommon for Cup drivers to run the Derby. It's more uncommon that they win it. And an interesting fact, Tammy Jo Kirk and Johanna Long both won it. No small accomplishment. Usually 20-25 cars don't make the field. I haven't seen the numbers for this years event. It's a big deal for whoever wins it. I remember reading an article in Circle Track magazine, somewhere in the vicinity of 1986, They had interviewed Bobby Allison. He stated, as long as he races there were two races he would run every year, the Snowball Derby and the Daytona 500. The Derby has always been a drivers race, in my opinion. Not a big media event, where every word and action is scrutinized to a tee. It's a racers race. I hope it stays that way.
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Yes sir ..... and this years winner is certainly a racer
 
I certainly hope Chase Elliott files an entry next year.
 
Every person connected to racing that I know understands this stuff.

You race your way into this event as you do Turkey Night, the Chili Bowl and other major short track races that often welcome drivers from the top levels of stock car and open wheel racing.

Bobby Allison ran the derby 9 times and never won it, much to the delight of his competitors. Your complaint is petty in my opinion and suggests a disconnect from what actual racing on the track is all about.

Most recently: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11953493
 
aunty dive said:
Every person connected to racing that I know understands this stuff.

You race your way into this event as you do Turkey Night, the Chili Bowl and other major short track races that often welcome drivers from the top levels of stock car and open wheel racing.

Bobby Allison ran the derby 9 times and never won it, much to the delight of his competitors. Your complaint is petty in my opinion and suggests a disconnect from what actual racing on the track is all about.

Most recently: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11953493
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Standing Ovation
 
Well, as I have said before, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Off of the top of my head, I can't think of another sport where competitors go back and compete at levels far below their own. I could maybe understand it running some regular weekly show that is no big deal to help generate local interest. What I can't see showing up at major events that don't have any issue filling seats anyway and taking away major accomplishments from those that are trying to build a career at the next level or for those where that level IS their career. For Kyle Busch, this race is just another trophy on his wall. To some of the drivers he beat, it would have the accomplishment of a lifetime to win this race, perhaps the achievement they needed to get a shot at the next level. There was a time and place where this was more of an accepted norm, and I get that, but I feel that time is long gone. If Kyle Busch or anybody else wants to be a weekly short track driver, then he should quit his current job and go do that instead. As for my complaint being petty, I don't know what to make of that. It's just an opinion I've had for MANY years, going back to at least the early 90's and nothing I have seen or done since then has changed my opinion of it, quite the opposite in fact. As for what racing on the track is all about, I was always taught to pick on people my own size.
 
There is no guarantee that Mr Busch will win when he files an entry.

That's what drives him and everybody else in the field. This basic fact eludes you. Too much time spent “being part of the show” and very little time spent racing.

I’m done. The last word is yours.
 
First of all, it's the offseason. Come one, come all. Any nascar driver who decides to enter should be welcomed.

Second, this is absolutely nothing like the Cup drivers with their Cup teams dominating against subpar Xfinity teams. That's an apples/oranges comparison.

When it comes to the local short tracks, dirt tracks, etc.......I love seeing nascar drivers compete on the small time circuits from time to time.
 
These are very cool, prestigious, all-star, best-of-the-best types of races that more NASCAR drivers should be flocking to, because the casual NASCAR really may not know much about it and in this case their presence actually does provide more exposure and helps racing as a whole. And generally, they are on a much more even playing field. Local, grassroots fans get to see their heroes take on the big boys. The local heroes themselves get an opportunity to prove themselves against the big boys. Everyone wins.

This isn't like Xfinity where you have guys deciding whether to spend their budget on a two-race JGR deal or a full-season JD Motorsports deal. And the exposure is already there because FOX and NBC are televising it anyways, and in most cases they just focus on the Cup guys.
 
mack said:
Bobby Allison, Davey Allison, Dale Sr., Rusty Wallace, Mark Martin, Johnny Benson and Dick Trickle have all ran the Snowball Derby. And I'm sure I'm leaving some names out. None of them ever won it. Darrell Waltrip, Donnie Allison, Rich Bickle, Kurt Busch and Chase Elliot have all won it. So it's not uncommon for Cup drivers to run the Derby. It's more uncommon that they win it. And an interesting fact, Tammy Jo Kirk and Johanna Long both won it. No small accomplishment. Usually 20-25 cars don't make the field. I haven't seen the numbers for this years event. It's a big deal for whoever wins it. I remember reading an article in Circle Track magazine, somewhere in the vicinity of 1986, They had interviewed Bobby Allison. He stated, as long as he races there were two races he would run every year, the Snowball Derby and the Daytona 500. The Derby has always been a drivers race, in my opinion. Not a big media event, where every word and action is scrutinized to a tee. It's a racers race. I hope it stays that way.
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Excellent post.
 
Formerjackman said:
Well, as I have said before, we'll just have to agree to disagree. Off of the top of my head, I can't think of another sport where competitors go back and compete at levels far below their own. I could maybe understand it running some regular weekly show that is no big deal to help generate local interest. What I can't see showing up at major events that don't have any issue filling seats anyway and taking away major accomplishments from those that are trying to build a career at the next level or for those where that level IS their career. For Kyle Busch, this race is just another trophy on his wall. To some of the drivers he beat, it would have the accomplishment of a lifetime to win this race, perhaps the achievement they needed to get a shot at the next level. There was a time and place where this was more of an accepted norm, and I get that, but I feel that time is long gone. If Kyle Busch or anybody else wants to be a weekly short track driver, then he should quit his current job and go do that instead. As for my complaint being petty, I don't know what to make of that. It's just an opinion I've had for MANY years, going back to at least the early 90's and nothing I have seen or done since then has changed my opinion of it, quite the opposite in fact. As for what racing on the track is all about, I was always taught to pick on people my own size.
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The driver of the 77 cup car beat Kyle at the derby .......... the kid now has a truck championship and a cup ride.
 
Well hell, let's just bring the whole Cup field down there and then we would REALLY have a race. :rolleyes: I went through an era in ARCA where the Cup teams sent their development drivers there to get experience. We all got smoked by Ryan Newman, Kyle Busch, Clint Bowyer and others with their big buck Cup teams, and that was FINE, as those drivers were working their way up and LEARNING. If any of them had come back after having established their Cup careers, it would have bothered the hell out of me. I'm sorry, but I just have very little interest watching races where somebody is ten steps over their skill and money level. Nothing makes me happier than watching a Truck or Xfinity race with ZERO Cup regulars in it, and I would be far LESS likely to go to a short track race if somebody like Kyle or any other equivalent driver was going to be there. That's not why I go. I want to see people race against their peer level. Now I'm done too. :)
 
FLRacingFan said:
These are very cool, prestigious, all-star, best-of-the-best types of races that more NASCAR drivers should be flocking to, because the casual NASCAR really may not know much about it and in this case their presence actually does provide more exposure and helps racing as a whole. And generally, they are on a much more even playing field. Local, grassroots fans get to see their heroes take on the big boys. The local heroes themselves get an opportunity to prove themselves against the big boys. Everyone wins.

This isn't like Xfinity where you have guys deciding whether to spend their budget on a two-race JGR deal or a full-season JD Motorsports deal. And the exposure is already there because FOX and NBC are televising it anyways, and in most cases they just focus on the Cup guys.
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As I posted up-thread, I'm OK with star drivers being welcome to race different places outside their normal "day jobs" as has happened since racing first began. What I don't like is the hypocrisy used to define Xfinity races as some special case where the arguments are supposedly different. The arguments are the same.

I have no problem with someone enjoying Cup drivers at the Snowball Derby but not enjoying them in Xfinity, as a personal preference. But please, don't come with philosophical justifications that make one righteous and the other unrighteous. That is where my hypocrisy meter hits redline.
 
Formerjackman said:
Well hell, let's just bring the whole Cup field down there and then we would REALLY have a race. :rolleyes: I went through an era in ARCA where the Cup teams sent their development drivers there to get experience. We all got smoked by Ryan Newman, Kyle Busch, Clint Bowyer and others with their big buck Cup teams, and that was FINE, as those drivers were working their way up and LEARNING. If any of them had come back after having established their Cup careers, it would have bothered the hell out of me. I'm sorry, but I just have very little interest watching races where somebody is ten steps over their skill and money level. Nothing makes me happier than watching a Truck or Xfinity race with ZERO Cup regulars in it, and I would be far LESS likely to go to a short track race if somebody like Kyle or any other equivalent driver was going to be there. That's not why I go. I want to see people race against their peer level. Now I'm done too. :)
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I don't think a random ARCA race at Chicagoland is the same as the Turkey Night Grand Prix, Snowball Derby, Chili Bowl Nationals, etc.
 
aunty dive said:
but ... but ... Pollard had the opportunity of a lifetime taken away from him by a guy who bought 13 sets of tires and had a pull-down rig in his hauler.


wtf, dude ... ?
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LOL.

The comments in this thread are an insult to guys like Bubba Pollard and to short track racing. These aren't rank amateurs. Bubba Pollard can run wheel-to-wheel with anybody in a Super Late Model.
 
A somewhat different perspective. I got to set down and chat with a retired local racer here where I live. It's was about 15 years ago. He has since passed away. He was the track champion in the late model modified division in 1968. He raced against the fabled "Alabama Gang" on more than one occasion. He told me he never won a race those guys were in. But he told me how many times he finished ahead of each of them. They finished ahead of him more than he did of them. But, he was very proud of the fact that on a few occasions he bested them. As big of a deal as it was to the fans in the late sixties and early seventies when Bobby, Donnie and Red showed up, it was a big deal to their fellow competitors. It made the locals better drivers. That old fella told me, "they could be beat, but you better be on your toes". I feel almost certain the rest of the field didn't concede the race to Kyle just because he showed up. And if I was a betting man, I'd wager the track didn't give him a penny in "appearance" money. I think he went down there to drive the wheels of a late model because he loves to race. And I'm petty sure he probably doesn't need to money.
 
StandOnIt said:
Bubba Pollard has an average derby finish of 18th. :idunno:
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Bubba Pollard is the Dale Earnhardt of the Snowball Derby. He's won just about everything there is to win in Super Late Model racing, except the Snowball Derby. He's won the Winter Showdown at Kern County, the All-American at Nashville, the Summer Showdown at Evergreen and is a former champion in the Southern Super Series and the Blizzard Series.
 
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