If you wreck you are out

aunty dive said:


Mr. Rice, the president of PRN, resides in the Charlotte area.
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Evidently Mr Rice missed the memo that there is no such thing as cost savings in racing as the same amount of money will be spent but directed to other areas.
 
That is usually true. But big sponsors are getting hard to come by and I think owners are looking for ways to cut some costs without having to let go people.

If you think about it, I'm sure this repair rule, in part, came from some of the owners. They're already spending big bucks to fix and wrecked race car back at the shop. Just to get it back on the track, there are body pieces they put on, suspension pieces, and other parts just to finish a race. And that doesn't include going through a few more sets of tires just to finish the race - that are $3,000 a set. It's really a waste.
 
BobbyFord said:
Think of all of the missed retaliatory opportunities. :(
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You can always cruise pit road long enough to hit his jack stands :p

cheesepuffs said:
Yes, because there's soooooo much media exposure value in running 38th 25 laps down....
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Look at all the extra coverage when you shed some more parts and hit the wall AGAIN.

MRM said:
That is usually true. But big sponsors are getting hard to come by and I think owners are looking for ways to cut some costs without having to let go people.

If you think about it, I'm sure this repair rule, in part, came from some of the owners. They're already spending big bucks to fix and wrecked race car back at the shop. Just to get it back on the track, there are body pieces they put on, suspension pieces, and other parts just to finish a race. And that doesn't include going through a few more sets of tires just to finish the race - that are $3,000 a set. It's really a waste.
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Yeah, but nobody's forcing them to go back out there just to get two or three more points. Maybe it's worth it at the plate races, where you can pass the other dozen cars that were in the same 'Big One' you were in.

Maybe this is a formal way to dodge the sponsor's question, "Why didn't you get back out there?"
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Doug is right, these are cost saving moves. Problem is, there's redistribution of funds.
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And the worst part is, they aren't even cutting costs where it really counts. Ditching the crash bin or threatening to cut a pit crew member is small friggen peanuts compared to what the teams are spending on the R&D arms race and yet nobody wants to address it. Instead of adding more strategy to the race, instead of putting the outcome more in the hands of those at the track, instead of encouraging the human elements, NASCAR is going the other way and dumbing down the product until its nothing but a technical exercise for a bunch of nerds hundreds of miles away in Mooresville.
 
I think this rule is a good idea. The thinking probably is we are going to have segments and that doesn't really need to add yet even more cautions, heck it might mean it could hurt the race product with unneeded cautions. For the race fan having a damaged car out there doing laps does nothing to improve the race product. there could be safety issues with cars that have bent up stuff on them everyone has to be aware of the rules. people told me last year danica only wrecked out 3 times last year. With this rule that number is going to change.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
Doug is right, these are cost saving moves. Problem is, there's redistribution of funds.
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I literally was told what the bodies cost at least three weeks before the news broke, and I was the very first person on this forum to break the composite body news well before Jayski or USA Today or anybody else published it. The composite bodies will not be saving teams any money in actual practice, I assure you that. It's all a cash grab for NA$CAR.
 
Skoalbandit33 said:
There is value in being seen period. If you and your marketing degree feel differently that is OK but I will believe what the Mad Men say.
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Skoal, I literally am in school for marketing. :lol2:

Historically the teams would always try to get back out there for a few extra point, back when that actually mattered even to the top guys under the old points system and when purses were actually published still. It's a whole different scenario these days and you need to adapt to it. Having the whole nose replaced on a car with blank replacement panels and the car hobbling around in 39th adds jack **** to marketing value. Marketing in motorsports is pretty simple, either you pay big dollars to get in victory lane or you settle for a midpacker but get a steep discount.
 
I'm perfectly fine with the "go to the garage and you're out" rule. To many times we see a car go behind the wall, come out 50+ laps down just to maybe make a point or two (if you're luck). The 5 minute rule has me on the fence though. 5 minutes isn't much time. However, most of the bigger travelling dirt series have a 2 or 3 minute rule if you o toe the "work area." Then they throw the green, and if you're not back out, you're done.
 
I do find it funny that the main reason body panels like the noses are totally replaced is due to the lawn mower cars nascar created - now nascar doesnt allow body panel replacement.

Is this real life
 
MRM said:
That is usually true. But big sponsors are getting hard to come by and I think owners are looking for ways to cut some costs without having to let go people.

If you think about it, I'm sure this repair rule, in part, came from some of the owners. They're already spending big bucks to fix and wrecked race car back at the shop. Just to get it back on the track, there are body pieces they put on, suspension pieces, and other parts just to finish a race. And that doesn't include going through a few more sets of tires just to finish the race - that are $3,000 a set. It's really a waste.
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As revenue streams dry up for teams I have no doubt they will be looking for ways to cut costs as the gravy train that once flowed freely is being choked off. Can you imagine what things would be like had FOX and NBC not had a collective brain cramp when signing the TV deals a few years back?
 
Acs said:
And the worst part is, they aren't even cutting costs where it really counts. Ditching the crash bin or threatening to cut a pit crew member is small friggen peanuts compared to what the teams are spending on the R&D arms race and yet nobody wants to address it. Instead of adding more strategy to the race, instead of putting the outcome more in the hands of those at the track, instead of encouraging the human elements, NASCAR is going the other way and dumbing down the product until its nothing but a technical exercise for a bunch of nerds hundreds of miles away in Mooresville.
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Sounds like a job for the RTA.
 
Most of us have known each other posting wise for some time cheespuffs. But TRL does not tolerate attacks on members themselves in the open forum...if it seems strict it is done that way so this stays a nice place for all members new and veteran
 
Reck said:
The thing is that 5 minutes is not enough time to even get warmed up. When you're talking car repairing you're usually replacing fenders and whole panels. That takes more than just 5 minutes, regardless of how fast you try to do it. It will take longer.

And that's not even taking into account that said parts need to be by the pit stall to begin with otherwise you'll burn your 5 minutes just getting whatever parts you need. I'm afraid this is yet another ill concieved rule that wasn't thought out well.
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They can't repair whole panels anymore.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
I do find it funny that the main reason body panels like the noses are totally replaced is due to the lawn mower cars nascar created - now nascar doesnt allow body panel replacement.

Is this real life
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So you'd rather go back to the common template and fender flare days where the cars looked like identical blobs? You need to splitter to make the frontal downforce that fender flare used to make. Fender flare makes the cars look nothing like the road cars.
 
cheesepuffs said:
So you'd rather go back to the common template and fender flare days where the cars looked like identical blobs? You need to splitter to make the frontal downforce that fender flare used to make. Fender flare makes the cars look nothing like the road cars.
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The cars look nothing like the road cars now. Its like their ugly step sibling once removed.

Incidents like this are just plain stupid

And with the cars on the ground, we'll never see driving prowess like the pass in the grass
 
ChexOrWrex said:
The cars look nothing like the road cars now. Its like their ugly step sibling once removed.
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Look at what we used to have and then look at what we have now and tell me what there is to complain about.
220px-MattKensethTexas2007.jpg


ford-fusion-nascar-sprint-cup.2000x1333.Jan-24-2012_19.06.02.948827.jpg
 
cheesepuffs said:
Look at what we used to have and then look at what we have now and tell me what there is to complain about.
View attachment 24491

View attachment 24489
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If you are watching nascar for the aesthetics, I guess youre happy. To be fair, the gen 4 cars produced much better racing than the gen 6. Even the COT (gen 5) out performed both in terms of racing entertainment. The gen 6 is lack luster at best. It's fool's gold.
 
nascar-cup-michigan-ii-2016-pace-car.jpg

This is a better representation of the gen 6 SS by the real thing. The gen 6 looks like someone squashed the SS & put it in a shrink wrap oven. Like I said, its the ugly brother.

Moving in the right direction though.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
If you are watching nascar for the aesthetics, I guess youre happy. To be fair, the gen 4 cars produced much better racing than the gen 6. Even the COT (gen 5) out performed both in terms of racing entertainment. The gen 6 is lack luster at best. It's fool's gold.
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I love how almost every debate here boils down to a deflection. I make a legitimate point and instead of being a man and saying, "you're right, I had forgotten how bad the cars used to look", you just brush it off.

As far as me talking aesthetics, yes I do care, and so does apparently 90% of the rest of the forum judging by the "make the cars stock again!" posts on a near daily basis.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
nascar-cup-michigan-ii-2016-pace-car.jpg

This is a better representation of the gen 6 SS by the real thing. The gen 6 looks like someone squashed the SS & put it in a shrink wrap oven. Like I said, its the ugly brother.

Moving in the right direction though.
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Well when GM builds the SS they aren't confined to a rulebook mandating a certain track width, a certain wheelbase, etc. So of course the proportions aren't going to be identical. When you're selling a street car it's about packaging, shoulder room, rear leg room, and on and on. The NASCAR bodies and street cars look damn close considering all that factors into it and I'm grateful that the product on track looks as close as it does.
 
cheesepuffs said:
I love how almost every debate here boils down to a deflection. I make a legitimate point and instead of being a man and saying, "you're right, I had forgotten how bad the cars used to look", you just brush it off.
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f29.png


Loooooool

Between your out of left field thread that got deleted - not even moved to the podium - but deleted entirely & you calling us crotchety, I thought you'd have learned your lesson about telling people what do to/how they should be.

Its time to come down from your high horse, junior. The street lights are off.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
f29.png


Loooooool

Between your out of left field thread that got deleted - not even moved to the podium - but deleted entirely & you calling us crotchety, I thought you'd have learned your lesson about telling people what do to/how they should be.

Its time to come down from your high horse, junior. The street lights are off.
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best meme
 
Want an example of why this rule is stupid? Go allllll the way back to this year's Kansas Chase race.

Start watching from 2:24:00


Brad K's spin through the grass after contact with the #11 rips the front bodywork off and send the car to the garage. Under 2017 rules he'd be immediately done. 78 laps to go, you'd think the 2 crew would mail it in and go home right? No way.

Because so many chase drivers had wrecked the previous week at Charlotte, Brad's wreck dropped him into an immediate tie with Harvick, Hamlin, and Dillon, all 4 right on the cut line. Additionally, previously in the race two backmarkers had parked it but McMurray had gone to the garage for 40 some odd laps and had already come back on track.

That meant it was all up to the #2 team mechanics in a race against time to get the car back on track and finish ahead of McMurray, preserving that precious point to keep them in the chase. The seasoned fan all of one season I was could immediately recognize the gravity of the situation and accordingly I was screaming at the TV. Again, none of this happens under 2017 rules.

Obviously we all know how it ended, he did get out on the track again and would have barely beat the #1 but his car couldn't hold on and it brought out the caution late. I get that point, that NASCAR doesn't want things to affect the race, but this policy goes too far the other way completely killing off these naturally occurring moments that make NASCAR so much fun.
 
This rule change is bad. It was also announced when the new way races occur was announced. I don't know why everyone is just now talking about it.


But yeah it's terrible. It will lead to more debris cautions because of a)hack rushed repairs and b) lack of replacement body panels, creating a lot more flapping about by existing parts.


Good point @Acs I hadn't even thought about splitters being eaten by the lawn and the impending DNF because of it. Granted, **** BK for that nonsense...


More excellent foresight by the geniuses at NASCAR.
 
DUN24 said:
This rule change is bad. It was also announced when the new way races occur was announced. I don't know why everyone is just now talking about it.


But yeah it's terrible. It will lead to more debris cautions because of a)hack rushed repairs and b) lack of replacement body panels, creating a lot more flapping about by existing parts.


Good point @Acs I hadn't even thought about splitters being eaten by the lawn and the impending DNF because of it. Granted, **** BK for that nonsense...


More excellent foresight by the geniuses at NASCAR.
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Hey, that was my point first :mad::cool:

ChexOrWrex said:
I do find it funny that the main reason body panels like the noses are totally replaced is due to the lawn mower cars nascar created - now nascar doesnt allow body panel replacement.

Is this real life
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I am curious if this was change was something that the RTA was behind, or was this all NASCAR ( not that matters, just curious)
 
Acs said:
I get that point, that NASCAR doesn't want things to affect the race, but this policy goes too far the other way completely killing off these naturally occurring moments that make NASCAR so much fun.
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Since 2004 NASCAR has been progressively killing organic racing drama, which is what made NASCAR fantastic to begin with.

Not even points formats, just look at the frequency of cautions for debris.



I dont believe nascar is rigged, but its certainly filled to the rim with manufactured drama.
 
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