Interest builds around possible changes to NASCAR schedule

LewTheShoe said:
Actually, those are merely your opinions. My opinion is that Nascar wasn't ruined at all. Your presumptive assertion that Nascar is "ruined" is laughable to this racing fan, who has been frequently thrilled by the racing from those "sh!tbox cars" on those "crappy tracks" right up through last November. In fact, the one track that stands out as a single groove track dominated by aero issues was built in 1960, and that issue has been partially solved by the roval. It still needs progressive banking to restore the World 600 to its former glory, IMO, but the fall date is in great shape.

Of course, I'm all about racing... bare knuckle, heads up competition... and I don't care much about the early Nascar Lifestyle with its regular joe's and good ol' boys... so YMMV.
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pretty soon he will be insulting all of us again calling us boneheads for watching the racing.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I wonder how much impact not having the championships will have. Looks to me like the track is isolated geographically, more than an comfortable day's drive from anywhere outside the state. Three championships might have been enough to get people to make the drive or book a flight, but will they for a 'regular season' weekend?
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Homestead is in a horrendous location. It takes forever to get across the Miami-Ft Lauderdale area so if you're not from near the track, it's a nightmare.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Worried about Homestead now.
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Yeah, me too. Its just my opinion, but I regard Homestead as a truly great race track... tied with Darlington as Nascar's greatest track for high powered, low downforce stock cars.

In a sporting sense, freeing Homestead from the constraints of a race where only four cars matter could be a good thing... but I worry about the commercial side with loss of the championship crowd appeal. If Homestead disappears from the Nascar schedule, it will be lamented in future years the way North Wilkesboro and Rockingham are now, I predict.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I wonder how much impact not having the championships will have. Looks to me like the track is isolated geographically, more than an comfortable day's drive from anywhere outside the state. Three championships might have been enough to get people to make the drive or book a flight, but will they for a 'regular season' weekend?
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Probably won't do as well. Near as I can tell, Homestead has been a sellout for over 6 years maybe more if there were records going back that far. Moving the championship race around gets into talk of having the championship race on the same track the regular season raced on. I imagine some drivers will be whining about Phoenix. KDB and Harvick probably won't be though.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Actually, those are merely your opinions. My opinion is that Nascar wasn't ruined at all. Your presumptive assertion that Nascar is "ruined" is laughable to this racing fan, who has been frequently thrilled by the racing from those "sh!tbox cars" on those "crappy tracks" right up through last November. In fact, the one track that stands out as a single groove track dominated by aero issues was built in 1960, and that issue has been partially solved by the roval. It still needs progressive banking to restore the World 600 to its former glory, IMO, but the fall date is in great shape.

Of course, I'm all about racing... bare knuckle, heads up, on-track competition... and I don't care much about the early Nascar Lifestyle with its regular joe's and good ol' boys... so YMMV.
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You are correct that it was just my opinion and I stand behind it. The post was composed to refute a member’s assertion that social media was hurting Nascar.

As far as the rest I’m glad that you enjoy the stages, playoffs, current car, and low horsepower high downforce of Nadcar today. It isn’t my cup of tea but we can’t always get what we want.

I have no idea what you are speaking of concerning a Nascar lifestyle fan. IDK if they are like deadheads or parrot heads or something else. Fill me in if you wish.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Yeah, me too. Its just my opinion, but I regard Homestead as a truly great race track... tied with Darlington as Nascar's greatest track for high powered, low downforce stock cars.

In a sporting sense, freeing Homestead from the constraints of a race where only four cars matter could be a good thing... but I worry about the commercial side with loss of the championship crowd appeal. If Homestead disappears from the Nascar schedule, it will be lamented in future years the way North Wilkesboro and Rockingham are now, I predict.
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I disagree that losing Homestead would be lamented in the same manner as Wilkesboro or The Rock. Maybe it should or maybe it shouldn’t but I don’t see people pining for it if it went away.

Homestead just has to survive 2020 as things will change again in 2021.
 
The schedule changes present a problem for me as a Pocono season ticket holder. For about the last eight years the June race was a family trip and the late July or early Aug race was a buddies trip. My son goes to both, wife only goes in June, along with one of my son's friends. In July five other guys go with me and my son. I started going to races with these guys in the early 90's and we only see each other once or twice a year. I live about 2:15, 2:30 from the track. Too close to want to lay out the expense for a hotel in Hazleton or SWB, too far away to want to drive home and turn around the next morning and do it all again. Thinking we'll probably do Saturday with everybody (if possible) family + buddies and tailgate together and sit separately, then head home and watch it on TV Sunday. I'm not into the camping route, too old and don't have the gear. They lost a race from me, but I understand things change.

They mentioned on Sirius Nascar radio that the Olympics played into this due to a schedule conflict. Igdalski was approached by Nascar and "came around" to the idea of the doubleheader. Makes me wonder if it wasn't a take it or leave it (lose the 2nd race altogether) deal. Based on the calls into the shows yesterday and this morning, people are giddy about the Pocono 2-fer. I am not among them. As I was reminded many times on the shows, "We can't please everybody," and I get that. One of the guys who goes on our "buddies" trip told me Bill France and Doc Mattioli years ago had a handshake deal that he'd always get two races. Both of those guys are gone now, so maybe so is this deal.

As for the other schedule changes, I don't have much of an opinion one way or another (recognizing that many others do) but this is just an example of how it's not great for everybody.
 
I like ALL of the changes.

Hopefully they bring back The Rock in the future and sprinkle in some more infield courses (Daytona, Indy) or new road courses.

The Doubleheader weekend is a great idea to facilitate those additions without having to slash dates from tracks like Pocono and Michigan.
 
LewTheShoe said:
I wonder if it's possible to do a doubleheader with one on the triangle, and one on a roval?
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This would be much more appealing to me than a straight twin bill, but is categorically not on the table for 2020. I strongly suspect that unless this doubleheader is considered a big win, Pocono drops to a single race starting in 2021. I think your suggestion would give it a greater chance of success.

LewTheShoe said:
Yeah, me too. Its just my opinion, but I regard Homestead as a truly great race track... tied with Darlington as Nascar's greatest track for high powered, low downforce stock cars.

In a sporting sense, freeing Homestead from the constraints of a race where only four cars matter could be a good thing... but I worry about the commercial side with loss of the championship crowd appeal. If Homestead disappears from the Nascar schedule, it will be lamented in future years the way North Wilkesboro and Rockingham are now, I predict.
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There may be good reason to be concerned about Homestead longer term, but I find it hard to believe it isn't safe to have a date on the schedule for many years into the mid '20s. I think far more likely to be on the chopping block are second dates at several tracks.
 
gnomesayin said:
I strongly suspect that unless this doubleheader is considered a big win, Pocono drops to a single race starting in 2021. I think your suggestion would give it a greater chance of success.
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In hindsight, I also think they were setting us up for this when they moved the race back to 3 and had quals in the morning. They knew last year.
 
I'm sure Mikey would agree. Makes me glad it's not up to them.

Even purely from a business standpoint, I don't think it makes sense. Daytona doesn't need to be a championship finale to be a top-watched event, and adding the championship element doesn't raise the cap on it that much. In fact, racing at Daytona against the NFL in November or October would likely decrease its total audience compared to racing there in July or August, finale or not.
 
gnomesayin said:
This would be much more appealing to me than a straight twin bill, but is categorically not on the table for 2020. I strongly suspect that unless this doubleheader is considered a big win, Pocono drops to a single race starting in 2021. I think your suggestion would give it a greater chance of success.



There may be good reason to be concerned about Homestead longer term, but I find it hard to believe it isn't safe to have a date on the schedule for many years into the mid '20s. I think far more likely to be on the chopping block are second dates at several tracks.
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IDK where the idea ever came from that Homestead would lose its date. It is situated perfectly for early or late dates due to geography and surely it can attract 35k in fans like Cali and Martinsville.
 
StandOnIt said:
I was more interested in the content of the post Moody was commenting on...the fans crying about the stale schedule are now crying about the rescheduling of their track. Typical. And of course a couple poster's here jumped the shark with the mere mention of Moody's name. ee yeah buddy
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I'm just giving you **** about the Moody thing....I am losing my patience with the flip floppers and the bitchers. I think a growing number of people are starting to feel the same way, and I like that NASCAR is now starting to turn a deaf ear to it all. David Wilson addressed this very issue in his last interview. The schedule looks just fine. I love this damn sport, and I am tired of people trying to tear it down.
 
Changes I would have made:

2. Phoenix
3. Las Vegas
4. Fontana
5. Homestead-Miami
6. Atlanta

14. Kansas (moves to Saturday Night Race, looks like it's locked into Sunday)

20. Daytona (stays as Firecracker 400)

26. Indianapolis (Regular season cutoff race on a Saturday afternoon like it used to be instead of a normal Sunday is a good spot here)

30. Las Vegas (Hopefully stays as a late evening race like in 2019, because it's still warm in late September)

I kinda hope Bristol Night Race and Dover Fall swap their playoff spots year to year. I don't think the Bristol Night race necessarily always needs to be in the playoffs to be successful.
 
They'll keep it in Phoenix for 2-5 years then move to Vegas, maybe Fontana, or Homestead-Miami again.
 
gnomesayin said:
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Yeah I don't like that, they should be rotating every year in the interest of fairness and keeping the TV viewer intrigued. Since they have their heels dug in on playoffs, and mimicking stick and ball sports, the Superbowl rotates. Under current system, the finale track has never been more important to determine the Championship (everyone knows that). It's a fairly large hit to Logano, Keselowski, Truex, Larson equity imo. Good for KB, Harvick, Elliott, Blaney tho. But hey they'll just have to go to work at Phoenix I guess... I wasn't complaining when it was Homestead year after year either... so it's hypocritical on my part. Would be cool to see it rotate around every year. Hell even Daytona or Dega **** it since we're saddled with a 1 race jackpot. I say bring on the ****** entertainment and stop with the half measures, unless they're going to fully revert and let the cars run free counting all 36. /vent.

That said, they don't give a **** about anything I just said (lol fairness), it's just a money driven decision of giving their newly remodeled facility a boost of attention for sales by keeping it a finale. It's always about $$$ ain't it.
 
With talks of rotating the finale and Martinsville finally getting a night race, I foresee a finale at Martinsville under the lights within a few years.
 
Turtle84 said:
Yeah I don't like that, they should be rotating every year in the interest of fairness and keeping the TV viewer intrigued. Since they have their heels dug in on playoffs, and mimicking stick and ball sports, the Superbowl rotates. Under current system, the finale track has never been more important to determine the Championship (everyone knows that). It's a fairly large hit to Logano, Keselowski, Truex, Larson equity imo. Good for KB, Harvick, Elliott, Blaney tho. But hey they'll just have to go to work at Phoenix I guess... I wasn't complaining when it was Homestead year after year either... so it's hypocritical on my part. Would be cool to see it rotate around every year. Hell even Daytona or Dega **** it since we're saddled with a 1 race jackpot. I say bring on the ******* entertainment and stop with the half measures, unless they're going to fully revert and let the cars run free counting all 36. /vent.

That said, they don't give a sh!t about anything I just said (lol fairness), it's just a money driven decision of giving their newly remodeled facility a boost of attention for sales by keeping it a finale. It's always about $$$ ain't it.
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The cream always rises to the top at Homestead-Miami, and I don't see why that would be any different at Phoenix.
 
AuzGrams said:
The cream always rises to the top at Homestead-Miami, and I don't see why that would be any different at Phoenix.
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Exactly. The best driver/car will find their way to the top no matter the track, which is why everyone's opinion on a dedicated finale OR rotating finale is correct. The best will win no matter what but having a change of pace every year will be great for the casual viewer.
 
LewTheShoe said:
Yeah, me too. Its just my opinion, but I regard Homestead as a truly great race track... tied with Darlington as Nascar's greatest track for high powered, low downforce stock cars.

In a sporting sense, freeing Homestead from the constraints of a race where only four cars matter could be a good thing... but I worry about the commercial side with loss of the championship crowd appeal. If Homestead disappears from the Nascar schedule, it will be lamented in future years the way North Wilkesboro and Rockingham are now, I predict.
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I like Homestead too, it kind of reminds me of Atlanta before it got Brutonized.
 
AuzGrams said:
The cream always rises to the top at Homestead-Miami, and I don't see why that would be any different at Phoenix.
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Let's just say Larson made it into the 4 next year, he's not going to get identical odds for Homestead vs Phoenix vs Martinsville as a finale. It's unavoidable, up and down some guy's are just better at certain tracks than others.
 
Homestead was the perfect place if NASCAR wanted parity at a certain track. Reality is that nine different drivers have won the last nine races at Homestead and it's about the most atypical 1.5 on the schedule. Meanwhile, Kyle Busch and Kevin Harvick have combined to win something stupid like nine of the last fourteen at Phoenix. Phoenix is ISC's shiny new toy and the championship is never going to leave the ISC family.
 
RacerrecaR said:
With talks of rotating the finale and Martinsville finally getting a night race, I foresee a finale at Martinsville under the lights within a few years.
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A night race in the Virginian mountains in mid-November? Will you be buying coats for everyone?

That's why a "rotating" finale doesn't really work. You could have it at Auto Club, Sonoma, Phoenix, Homestead, Daytona, Atlanta, Texas, Talledaga, Darlington, maybe Charlotte. New Hampshire and Watkins Glen have a good chance of being snow-covered by November 15th. Climate dictates the first and last month of the schedule (as long as it's beginning in February and ending in mid-November, that's the reality).
 
Charlie Spencer said:
I wonder how much impact not having the championships will have. Looks to me like the track is isolated geographically, more than an comfortable day's drive from anywhere outside the state. Three championships might have been enough to get people to make the drive or book a flight, but will they for a 'regular season' weekend?
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It is just a short drive from Key Largo which has quite a few motels/hotels, restaurants and other destination activities for vacations. One of my favorite spots in the Florida Keys and we have stayed there for the races several times. March is considered peak tourist seasons for that area including spring break. Most of those youngsters would probably have little interest in attending the race. We live a bit north of Miami and there is no easy way to get to the track. I have missed races there because I did not want to deal with driving in Miami. I suspect there will be a huge drop in attendance. I will probably be in the minority of liking the change in date for the track. Originally I thought Homestead would get a race late in the playoffs, not mid March.
 
AuzGrams said:
The cream always rises to the top at Homestead-Miami, and I don't see why that would be any different at Phoenix.
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Also, I'd say if you've made it into the 4 then "the cream has already rose to the top". The way they've designed the system with carry over points since stages were implemented, they're very likely to be the strongest cars of the season. Thus, delivering the optics that "the cream always rises to the top". NASCAR fixed that issue right quick when Newman scared the crap out of them.

Before the carry over and stages, I hate to say it but 2016 Jimmie was definitely not the cream of the crop at Homestead, and he was damn lucky that Edwards and Logano took each other out because they both had him killed on speed. I'm glad this got brought up because this is the inherent problem with having 1 race decide an entire season. It has and will continue to affect Championships.

A rotating finale doesn't change any of that from happening, but it at least balances out driver advantages and gives the fans something new.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Homestead was the perfect place if NASCAR wanted parity at a certain track. Reality is that nine different drivers have won the last nine races at Homestead and it's about the most atypical 1.5 on the schedule. Meanwhile, Kyle Busch and Kevin Harvick have combined to win something stupid like nine of the last fourteen at Phoenix. Phoenix is ISC's shiny new toy and the championship is never going to leave the ISC family.
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Yep, Homestead allowed superior equipment on the 1.5 to prevail along with a wider group of driver's.
 
Speedbowl14 said:
A night race in the Virginian mountains in mid-November? Will you be buying coats for everyone?

That's why a "rotating" finale doesn't really work. You could have it at Auto Club, Sonoma, Phoenix, Homestead, Daytona, Atlanta, Texas, Talledaga, Darlington, maybe Charlotte. New Hampshire and Watkins Glen have a good chance of being snow-covered by November 15th. Climate dictates the first and last month of the schedule (as long as it's beginning in February and ending in mid-November, that's the reality).
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NASCAR could easily get out of the month of November if they wanted to, it would behoove them for this sort of thing, who's driving the ship them or the networks?
 
Turtle84 said:
Also, I'd say if you've made it into the 4 then "the cream has already rose to the top". The way they've designed the system with carry over points since stages were implemented, they're very likely to be the strongest cars of the season. Thus, delivering the optics that "the cream always rises to the top". NASCAR fixed that issue right quick when Newman scared the crap out of them.

Before the carry over and stages, I hate to say it but 2016 Jimmie was definitely not the cream of the crop at Homestead, and he was damn lucky that Edwards and Logano took each other out because they both had him killed on speed. I'm glad this got brought up because this is the inherent problem with having 1 race decide an entire season. It has and will continue to affect Championships.

A rotating finale doesn't change any of that from happening, but it at least balances out driver advantages and gives the fans something new.
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The best 4 have been in Homestead-Miami for Cup since the playoff point system. Logano had better finishes and Keselowski had more wins last year besides the so called big 3.
 
AuzGrams said:
The best 4 have been in Homestead-Miami for Cup since the playoff point system. Logano had better finishes and Keselowski had more wins last year besides the so called big 3.
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I'm not sure I follow on that one, Larson's best year he missed the 4. And KB/Harvick dominated last year on wins. But, yes typically the 4 are very strong cars because of the structure and rollover points.

Sorry for the derail btw.
 
DIDIT said:
It is just a short drive from Key Largo which has quite a few motels/hotels, restaurants and other destination activities for vacations.
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I'm pretty sure if us non-Floridians consider it too far to drive to Homestead, we won't be willing to overshoot it by an extra hour.
 
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