Interest builds around possible changes to NASCAR schedule

Snappy D said:
I found this. I feel uneasy about all this, this really stinks. Chicagoland is a pretty good facility to watch a race from and being a ticket holder for 19 years I could list the missteps that didn’t help the track succeed but remember about this time two months ago the internet wanted to shut down Homestead Speedway. So hopefully this conjecture is much ado about nothing
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I traveled to Chicagoland Speedway for a race weekend once. Maybe it was a combination of where I stayed and getting to and from the track, but I know I would not go back. It is one of the few tracks that if I was within 100 miles that I would pass on going to a cup race. I enjoy traveling to tracks like Martinsville, Bristol, Darlington, Atlanta, Richmond, Michigan and even Charlotte. Back in the day I also enjoyed a country drive to the Rock and North Wilkesboro. As much as I like racing, there is more than the actual race that makes a great weekend.
 
DIDIT said:
I traveled to Chicagoland Speedway for a race weekend once. Maybe it was a combination of where I stayed and getting to and from the track, but I know I would not go back. It is one of the few tracks that if I was within 100 miles that I would pass on going to a cup race. I enjoy traveling to tracks like Martinsville, Bristol, Darlington, Atlanta, Richmond, Michigan and even Charlotte. Back in the day I also enjoyed a country drive to the Rock and North Wilkesboro. As much as I like racing, there is more than the actual race that makes a great weekend.
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Where did you stay? Outside of downtown Joliet which I myself wouldn’t stay at there arnt many close places to grab a hotel room at maybe Orland Park but that’s corporate surburbia USA with chain restaurants and the like.
 
kkfan91 said:
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I like Kentucky, the issue is that the redesign did not workout as they wanted it to.

It's a unique 1.5 mile track, I find it unfortunate that some changes like this have to be made. The track I honestly question the most is Homestead, its a great track and one of the best intermediates on the schedule. However, like Dover they rely a lot on NASCAR's TV money to survive. I wonder if they are in question as well?

Kentucky also draws a lot of the college crowd with its deals for college students a lot. It was like 10 or 15 bucks in the student section, that's a pretty darn cool deal. Like 2 dollar beers to in that area? That's a big selling point.
 
I see on social media some posts or tweets about the excitement of losing Chicagoland because it opens up a date for the return of Rockingham or Wilkesboro....what? That doesn’t make an iota of sense. Then I see others posting about how a date can be given to Madison or Iowa...that doesn’t whet my appetite because Iowa isn’t a short track it’s a Richmond sibling and Madison(Gateway) I don’t remember being enthralled by the Busch races there. Some NASCAR fans...well maybe people in general are stupid. Celebrating potentially leaving the third biggest television market for two failed crumbling tracks that reside in podunk towns or going to two big question marks in much smaller markets. People really confuse me.
 
Snappy D said:
I see on social media some posts or tweets about the excitement of losing Chicagoland because it opens up a date for the return of Rockingham or Wilkesboro....what? That doesn’t make an iota of sense. Then I see others posting about how a date can be given to Madison or Iowa...that doesn’t whet my appetite because Iowa isn’t a short track it’s a Richmond sibling and Madison(Gateway) I don’t remember being enthralled by the Busch races there. Some NASCAR fans...well maybe people in general are stupid. Celebrating potentially leaving the third biggest television market for two failed crumbling tracks that reside in podunk towns or going to two big question marks in much smaller markets. People really confuse me.
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I find the facility's apparent sudden demise disconcerting as well. I'm sorry this is happening to your local track.
 
gnomesayin said:
I find the facility's apparent sudden demise disconcerting as well. I'm sorry this is happening to your local track.
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Thanks! Hopefully this is much ado about nothing...Homestead was closed by the internet earlier in the season. Chicagoland Speedway has many memories for me, it’s where I attended my first NASCAR race when I was a sophomore in high school, I’ll never forget the excitement of that day. I understand memories don’t make money, but that doesn’t mean I can’t be sad or frustrated about this whole deal. If the track ends up being sold and dismantled then I hope it will be a cold day in hell if NASCAR ever comes back to Illinois. That’s two failed tracks in my lifetime 30-40 min from where I live
 
We race across the street at the drag strip once a year and I have been hearing rumors this was going to happen for a couple of years now. It doesn't surprise me considering all of the warehouses that as popped up in that area and the 2 new truck stops they just built there at the intersection. As of right now I heard the drag strip and dirt track will not be effected but I don't see that lasting for long. Plus, the NASCAR track and the streets all around it is where they pit the sportsman teams for the drag race and stack the pro teams before parking. It sucks for Snappy if he does end up losing his home track. Who knows maybe the deal will fail and the track will survive for a few more years. I think I started hearing rumors the drag strip was going to close just about a couple of years after it opened but it's still there.
 
Snappy D said:
Celebrating potentially leaving the third biggest television market for two failed crumbling tracks that reside in podunk towns or going to two big question marks in much smaller markets.
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How much affect does having a track in the area have on TV numbers in that market? It’s not like having a stick and ball team that’s there for the locals to attend, watch, and cheer for every week. Do one or two events months apart give locals incentive to tune in?
 
It can be tough to gauge market size among tracks these days, with everyone really hovering around the same demand of 30,000-100,000 tickets. Go back to the past and you'll see some indicators of difference. Back in the mid 00s, Chicago couldn't draw a crowd of 100,000... in an era when 100,000 people was really a pretty easy attendance figure to hit. The only oval tracks I can think of that did not hit 100,000 attendance then were Martinsville and Darlington, simply because they couldn't expand. Chicagoland was a brand new facility ready to be built-up but demand never required that even in NASCAR's most well-attended days.

Hometead is the only other modern track that also could not hit the 100,000 attendence benchmark, and you also hear plenty of rumors regarding that facility.
 
Snappy D said:
Where did you stay? Outside of downtown Joliet which I myself wouldn’t stay at there arnt many close places to grab a hotel room at maybe Orland Park but that’s corporate surburbia USA with chain restaurants and the like.
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I really am not sure. I think it was a bit northeast of the track about 35 - 40 minutes. I also remember that my credit card was compromised that weekend and it seemed like the hotel was the most likely place.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
How much affect does having a track in the area have on TV numbers in that market? It’s not like having a stick and ball team that’s there for the locals to attend, watch, and cheer for every week. Do one or two events months apart give locals incentive to tune in?
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I couldnt say and I dont know the numbers nor have time to research it. I will say this... for the years the race was the start of the playoffs, it was went head to head with the Chicago Bears season opener. Sometimes it fell as the home opener at Solider Field. I cant make a case for that being a successful idea.
 
Nitro Dude said:
We race across the street at the drag strip once a year and I have been hearing rumors this was going to happen for a couple of years now. It doesn't surprise me considering all of the warehouses that as popped up in that area and the 2 new truck stops they just built there at the intersection. As of right now I heard the drag strip and dirt track will not be effected but I don't see that lasting for long. Plus, the NASCAR track and the streets all around it is where they pit the sportsman teams for the drag race and stack the pro teams before parking. It sucks for Snappy if he does end up losing his home track. Who knows maybe the deal will fail and the track will survive for a few more years. I think I started hearing rumors the drag strip was going to close just about a couple of years after it opened but it's still there.
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well if you remember NHRA had two dates at Route 66. I've heard rumors off and on for years about that place and the dirt track, my wife lived in the town right next to the track ( The Track limits actually fall between Elwood and Joliet) she's friends with important people in that area and You'd hear the drag strip was in trouble every now and then but its been there for over 20 years now so we'll see. The Chicagoland speedway was out of leftfield.
 
Speedbowl14 said:
It can be tough to gauge market size among tracks these days, with everyone really hovering around the same demand of 30,000-100,000 tickets. Go back to the past and you'll see some indicators of difference. Back in the mid 00s, Chicago couldn't draw a crowd of 100,000... in an era when 100,000 people was really a pretty easy attendance figure to hit. The only oval tracks I can think of that did not hit 100,000 attendance then were Martinsville and Darlington, simply because they couldn't expand. Chicagoland was a brand new facility ready to be built-up but demand never required that even in NASCAR's most well-attended days.

Hometead is the only other modern track that also could not hit the 100,000 attendence benchmark, and you also hear plenty of rumors regarding that facility.
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I am not sure though that Chicagoland ever had 100,000 seats. They've been at the 40-47000 mark as long as I have been going. The camping was always full. Thats a skewed metric if you're using that to base that the speedway could never draw, especially if you're relying on 60,000 people to camp if there's 40000 seats. I would say it sold out every year until about 2012-14, but again theres many factors I would say that didnt help matters for the track in that regard. In 07 and 08 rumor was They were supposed to get back stretch seats, and a second cup Date, a night race. The Tropicana 400 at the time was a night race in July right before New Hampshire I belive and the week after Daytona July race. So they attended enough to be considered for a second Cup date, I think them saying they didnt draw at all is revisionist history in my view.
 
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Nobody knows the costs, profit and loss it takes to operate at the different tracks but Nascar. It could be a lot of things that went into the decision. it could be urban sprawl and the jacked up taxes that go along with it that could be to blame. Could be for example governmental pressure like Dover has had to deal with by the local government nixing events because of this and that, (noise, traffic). We fans might never know the reasoning behind it.
 
Kiante said:
@Snappy D
Chicagoland isn't going anywhere, some land is being sold off for some warehouses to be built on the land.
kickinthetires.net

UPDATE: Despite industrial complex plans, Chicagoland Speedway will remain

By Jerry Jordan, Editor The future of the Chicagoland Speedway will not be affected by plans for a new industrial complex and the track itself, will be spare
kickinthetires.net kickinthetires.net
Crazy speculation for the past 24 hours though.
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we shall see. You've been the voice of reason since I went on my rants, so I thank you. I hope the old adage "where there's smoke there's fire" doesnt apply to the Speedway's current situation.
 
Snappy D said:
we shall see. You've been the voice of reason since I went on my rants, so I thank you. I hope the old adage "where there's smoke there's fire" doesnt apply to the Speedway's current situation.
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I see more double headers in the future, maybe experimenting with more track and configurations. If, Pocono is a success in terms of attendance (if possible), it will become a more common occurring theme.
 
Around and around we go....I laugh if NASCAR is stupid enough to think they have a shot at getting a race in downtown Chicago lmao the city cries poor literally every day not to mention the miles of bureaucratic tape that they will have to cut through to even be considered at getting a race.
 
That is what always was unclear to me...the previous plans I posted showed the zoning on the actual track, almost as if the industrial was going to be built on top of it
 
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NASCAR isn’t dumb enough to leave the market entirely. Are there better ways of capturing the market...maybe. I don’t think you meet with the people at Soldier Field if you think you’re doing a great job of that already.
 
Actually way back in the day NASCAR did race inside Solider Field. I think a few times. I'd be sad if Chicagoland was gone because I think its an excellent facility and never have had a bad experience there but to see racing inside where the Bears play would blow my mind.
 
Snappy D said:
Actually way back in the day NASCAR did race inside Solider Field. I think a few times. I'd be sad if Chicagoland was gone because I think its an excellent facility and never have had a bad experience there but to see racing inside where the Bears play would blow my mind.
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Fireball Roberts won the only NASCAR Cup race ever run at Soldier Field, back in 1956.

https://www.racing-reference.info/race/1956-33/W

soldier field.jpg


The place looks a lot different now . . .

soldier field new.jpg
 
With attendance down so much in NASCAR markets don't really matter, it's the quality of racing. If they can get some better short or unique tracks on the schedule then that helps the TV ratings, which is where most of their money is coming from now. And as Spencer pointed out above, a race that takes place in a large market doesn't necessarily lead to big ratings in that same market.
 
NASCAR Apologist said:
NASCAR isn’t dumb enough to leave the market entirely. Are there better ways of capturing the market...maybe. I don’t think you meet with the people at Soldier Field if you think you’re doing a great job of that already.
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If it is anything like their meeting with the SuperCar people and the way that has turned out, I would say they be racing at Soldier field real soon. :idunno:
 
carolinabuff said:
With attendance down so much in NASCAR markets don't really matter, it's the quality of racing. If they can get some better short or unique tracks on the schedule then that helps the TV ratings, which is where most of their money is coming from now. And as Spencer pointed out above, a race that takes place in a large market doesn't necessarily lead to big ratings in that same market.
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As much as most hardcore fans may love short tracks and road courses, there is little evidence they produce larger television audiences than intermediate ovals. A more satisfied existing fanbase? Possibly.
 
gnomesayin said:
As much as most hardcore fans may love short tracks and road courses, there is little evidence they produce larger television audiences than intermediate ovals. A more satisfied existing fanbase? Possibly.
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Even if that's true on a race-to-race basis, the TV audiences have declined greatly over the past 15-20 years and the shift in tracks has been one of the big changes in that timeframe. There's also no evidence to suggest that racing in big markets produces better ratings or increased interest but the damage of losing races at short tracks, unique tracks, and traditional markets was quite noticeable.
 
carolinabuff said:
Even if that's true on a race-to-race basis, the TV audiences have declined greatly over the past 15-20 years and the shift in tracks has been one of the big changes in that timeframe. There's also no evidence to suggest that racing in big markets produces better ratings or increased interest but the damage of losing races at short tracks, unique tracks, and traditional markets was quite noticeable.
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Fair points. Yes, the expected bounce from racing near major markets didn't occur the way many expected it to.

The shift toward the modern intermediates really began in the mid to late '90s, and the aftermath encompasses both NASCAR's peak television and attendance popularity in the mid-2000s and subsequent decline.

I am in favor of greater schedule diversity.
 
gnomesayin said:
Fair points. Yes, the expected bounce from racing near major markets didn't occur the way many expected it to.

The shift toward the modern intermediates really began in the mid '90s, and the aftermath encompasses both NASCAR's peak television and attendance popularity in the mid-2000s and subsequent decline.

I am in favor of greater schedule diversity.
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Also some fair points about the intermediates coming along in the mid-90's. When did the decline start? 2003, 2004, 2005, sometime around there right? But this didn't happen overnight, and I'll also admit this was before my time as a NASCAR fan, but it was a gradual decline and certainly other factors were involved not just the tracks they were racing at.

Assuming we agree on the timeline of when the decline started, 2003-2005, then here are the major changes leading up to and around that time:
1996 - Last races at NW
2004 - last races at The Rock and Darlington loses the Southern 500 on Labor Day weekend
2004 - Chase is implemented

2004 seems to have been the big breaking point which likely only compounded the loss of NW. Then throw in the COT a few years later for good measure.
 
A quarter of a century later, the Indianapolis tv market is regularly one of NASCAR’s highest-rated markets. When done properly, new events can be success stories.

Many of these “failed” events should be considered in context of the boom era as a whole. Were places like Chicagoland, Auto Club, Homestead ever going to have more than intermediate-term success, given how isolated those tracks are relative to other entertainment options in the market? Was building a brand new venue to tap into a brand new market 50 miles outside of the city proper ever actually going to be sustainable? In the effort to nationalize the product you could argue maybe we didn’t go far enough. And given the characteristics of the people we want to target and the trends of personal tendencies it might be about time to put the product directly in their lap. A lot of times the consumer doesn’t know they want something until you show it to them.

Whatever payoff there may be would dwarf dropping a Chicagoland for a redundant Carolinas race.
 
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