IS IT THE DRIVER OR CAR??

Thegeneral23 said:
I got into NASCAR about a year 1/2 ago and to be honest.. I really have no clue why I picked Kyle Busch lol.. I use to just hear the name a lot, so I did some research and saw he drove the m&m's car and I love that paint scheme.. so I made him my driver.. but once the season started i notice that Kyle could kill restarts and get a big advantage on people when it comes to restarts I also notice that he can save cars from hitting walls.. like this year he had taken some bad cars and got top 5-10 place in bad cars.. and could have won at least 3 times.. only other person I see doing this is Kevin harvick .. yea Penske drivers do it to but it's usually strategy with them
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Since you started this thread about Kyle Busch, you have to add "RACETRACK" to your opening title. Apparently, Kyle doesn't believe some racetracks are "REAL".

As a Kyle Busch Fan, do you know if KyBu believes that Charlotte Motor Speedway is a "real" racetrack? I just want to know ahead of time, so I might better understand Kyle's pain of having to drive in the upcoming races. :rolleyes:
 
Thegeneral23 said:
So tell me what makes drivers better then others?? Like what makes Jimmie so good ?
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Different drivers have their strengths and weaknesses, even though from the couch it looks like they are all turning left about the same way:

Jimmie: He can drive the loosest race car of probably everyone in the field. That let's him and Chad do some crazy fast things with setups.

Kyle Larson: Known for being able to run the high line around the racetrack, and run it fast. Often he's the only driver willing to go up there. Hits the wall a bunch because of it.

Kyle Busch: Hate to admit it, but Kyle Busch is the best re-starter in the field and I don't think it's close. Every time he's on the front row, look out. It doesn't matter if he's the control car or not.

Truex Jr.: I don't think he's anything special as a driver, but his CC Cole Pearn is a genius at building bad fast cars. Unfortunately, they aren't the most reliable of machines.

Brad K: The best restrictor plate racer in the field right now. Doesn't leave things to chance, takes control of a race and has numerous techniques to get up front. The #2 team pit crew is crap right now though.

Kevin Harvick: Complete bottom-feeder (aka he runs the low line around the track almost exclusively). Very good at saving tires on a long run. If he's out front he's almost uncatchable. Has a tendency to choke away wins though.

Ryan Newman: Considered the hardest driver to pass on the race-track. He plays defense better than anyone, and he's usually on defense a lot.

These are just some of the characteristic's I've been able to pick up on watching for a year and a half. Feel free to add other drivers if you can think of them.
 
Stacy said:
Since you started this thread about Kyle Busch, you have to add "RACETRACK" to your opening title. Apparently, Kyle doesn't believe some racetracks are "REAL".

As a Kyle Busch Fan, do you know if KyBu believes that Charlotte Motor Speedway is a "real" racetrack? I just want to know ahead of time, so I might better understand Kyle's pain of having to drive in the upcoming races. :rolleyes:
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As someone that understands emotions and been living for 30 years understand people say stuff out if frustration... I'm sure everybody knows he was just mad and didn't mean that geesh, come on it's talladega that track scared me from my house! Lol.. just because y'all don't like him y'all have to stop feeding into the BS
 
Acs said:
Different drivers have their strengths and weaknesses, even though from the couch it looks like they are all turning left about the same way:

Jimmie: He can drive the loosest race car of probably everyone in the field. That let's him and Chad do some crazy fast things with setups.

Kyle Larson: Known for being able to run the high line around the racetrack, and run it fast. Often he's the only driver willing to go up there. Hits the wall a bunch because of it.

Kyle Busch: Hate to admit it, but Kyle Busch is the best re-starter in the field and I don't think it's close. Every time he's on the front row, look out. It doesn't matter if he's the control car or not.

Truex Jr.: I don't think he's anything special as a driver, but his CC Cole Pearn is a genius at building bad fast cars. Unfortunately, they aren't the most reliable of machines.

Brad K: The best restrictor plate racer in the field right now. Doesn't leave things to chance, takes control of a race and has numerous techniques to get up front. The #2 team pit crew is crap right now though.

Kevin Harvick: Complete bottom-feeder (aka he runs the low line around the track almost exclusively). Very good at saving tires on a long run. If he's out front he's almost uncatchable. Has a tendency to choke away wins though.

Ryan Newman: Considered the hardest driver to pass on the race-track. He plays defense better than anyone, and he's usually on defense a lot.

These are just some of the characteristic's I've been able to pick up on watching for a year and a half. Feel free to add other drivers if you can think of them.
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I love it man!!! I think it's spot on .. just hate how u said u have to admit about Kyle lol everybody hates him give my guy a break!
 
Stacy said:
Since you started this thread about Kyle Busch, you have to add "RACETRACK" to your opening title. Apparently, Kyle doesn't believe some racetracks are "REAL".

As a Kyle Busch Fan, do you know if KyBu believes that Charlotte Motor Speedway is a "real" racetrack? I just want to know ahead of time, so I might better understand Kyle's pain of having to drive in the upcoming races. :rolleyes:
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I'm not sure what the deal is with your Kyle Busch obsession, but is it really necessary to bring him up in every single comment? Are you trying to make every thread on here about Kyle? You talk about him more than his fans do
 
2 Sweet said:
I'm not sure what the deal is with your Kyle Busch obsession, but is it really necessary to bring him up in every single comment? Are you trying to make every thread on here about Kyle? You talk about him more than his fans do
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It's a valid question. Kyle Busch needs to clarify his remarks on what EXACTLY he means by not a "real racetrack". He said it. Does that mean what the paying fans are watching is not "real".

KyBu is a competitor, and if he's going around impugning the integrity of NASCAR, that is a problem. o_O
 
The answer is not one or the other, it's one and the other.

You can put the best driver in bad equipment and they won't do jack. Likewise you could put a mediocre driver in the best equipment and they won't produce. Those two scenarios have played out over and over in the history of this sport.
 
It sure looked like a real race track when I was ridding around it in a tour van last year. It had a straight away with banked turns at each end, a pit lane, a tall fence, and very,very large grandstands for the fans to sit in. Yep, I'm pretty sure it was a real race track.:D
 
TexasRaceLady said:
First, Chad gives him a well setup car.
Second, Jimmie gives great feedback during practice and during the race. Listen to him sometime on the radio -- he breaks
down a corner as well as any driver I've ever heard.
Third, Chad makes good choices based on Jimmie's feedback.
Fourth, Jimmie can take a car that isn't quite good enough and find a place on the track where it works.

In summary --- it's NOT just the driver or the car. It's the driver, the car, and the CC all working together.
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I think the casual fan doesn't see or choose to recognize the teamwork aspect to NASCAR. It takes everyone from the owner, driver, crew and car chiefs, engineers, mechanics, pit crew, etc. to field a winning TEAM.
 
dpkimmel2001 said:
The answer is not one or the other, it's one and the other.

You can put the best driver in bad equipment and they won't do jack. Likewise you could put a mediocre driver in the best equipment and they won't produce. Those two scenarios have played out over and over in the history of this sport.
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You put the best driver in bad eq. and he will outperform a mediocre driver in the same eq. Mediocre driver..30-40 finish, great driver 20-30 finish.
 
You could be the single best driver that ever sat in a seat in NASCAR but if your car isnt fast, there is NO amount of talent to make it go faster as a driver.

You could build the fastest racecar on the track but there is nothing you can do as a crew or on the pit box to make your driver better.

Its everything. Car, driver, crew, and CC. Like JJ. Great driver, great crew and CC, great results. Then take Jr. Mediocre driver, great equipment, mediocre results. Kyle Busch is one of the best on the track any given race weekend. But if he doesnt have the equipment, he has a year like this one so far. They'll get the equipment together at some point this year and come back and win some races. Very good examples this year if you watch closely.


Its a FULL team effort.
 
Team is the difference. The fabricators, crew members, machinists, pit crew, engine builders, tuners, CC, and driver. Lots of moving parts just devoted to the car. What about the owner and marketing group getting sponsors to pay the money to do all that? If ANYONE drops the ball, don't matter how talented that driver is.
 
JUST LIKE I THOUGHT!!! ITS ALL CAR!! TRUEX IS NOT THAT GOOD!!! IT DOESNT MATTER WHO YOU PUT IN THAT ROCKET!!
 
Thegeneral23 said:
JUST LIKE I THOUGHT!!! ITS ALL CAR!! TRUEX IS NOT THAT GOOD!!! IT DOESNT MATTER WHO YOU PUT IN THAT ROCKET!!
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Nonsense. Truex isn't the best driver by any stretch of the imagination, but you got to be pretty damn good to lead all by 4 laps in a 600, and dominate races like he did today. He has a great car no doubt, but you need the talent to pull off this wins too.
 
Acs said:
Different drivers have their strengths and weaknesses, even though from the couch it looks like they are all turning left about the same way:

Jimmie: He can drive the loosest race car of probably everyone in the field. That let's him and Chad do some crazy fast things with setups.

Kyle Larson: Known for being able to run the high line around the racetrack, and run it fast. Often he's the only driver willing to go up there. Hits the wall a bunch because of it.

Kyle Busch: Hate to admit it, but Kyle Busch is the best re-starter in the field and I don't think it's close. Every time he's on the front row, look out. It doesn't matter if he's the control car or not.

Truex Jr.: I don't think he's anything special as a driver, but his CC Cole Pearn is a genius at building bad fast cars. Unfortunately, they aren't the most reliable of machines.

Brad K: The best restrictor plate racer in the field right now. Doesn't leave things to chance, takes control of a race and has numerous techniques to get up front. The #2 team pit crew is crap right now though.

Kevin Harvick: Complete bottom-feeder (aka he runs the low line around the track almost exclusively). Very good at saving tires on a long run. If he's out front he's almost uncatchable. Has a tendency to choke away wins though.

Ryan Newman: Considered the hardest driver to pass on the race-track. He plays defense better than anyone, and he's usually on defense a lot.

These are just some of the characteristic's I've been able to pick up on watching for a year and a half. Feel free to add other drivers if you can think of them.
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Agreed on drivers mentioned, anyone else?
 
Truex is definitely benefiting from having Cole as his CC and having an owner who is doing his best to give them what they need. Another very good driver has won many races and 7 championships because he was once in this same position. It takes a whole happy team to do this.
 
Mispeedway15 said:
Martin Truex is currently the best driver in NASCAR. He has absolutely dominated this year
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How do you dominate when you are one point from first in this goofy points system? but he has more stage wins and playoff points I'll give him that. Is this like the old green stamp system, double stamps during the playoffs? or points I get at the auto parts. A person doesn't really know who the heck is going to win the last race no matter how many of this or that they have.
 
I think if you look at Joey Logano and the 20 car you'd see the answer to this question. Quite simply, there isn't one. Joey didn't set the world on fire in the 20 but is a perineal title contender in the 22. The 20 team also became an instant contender after he left.
 
I'd say it's 75% Car, 25% driver now.
When I started watching, it was 50-50. What makes a driver great, in my opinion, are a combination of these four things, in order from least to most significance

-Mentality (it IS a sport after all)

-Feedback

-Versatility (changing driving style, corner entry, angle, corner exit, lifting zones based on what car is doing and how it is handling)

-Ability to maximize speed in corners, which draws from versatility, to enhance this raw ability. This is what makes Jimmie Johnson a more talented driver than Kyle Busch, and anyone else in cup (most talented ever? ). Jimmie can, and has won more races with 4th, 5th, and 6th place cars in clutch time by being that good, and better than anyone else in those last two categories. Cant remember his last dominant race, save Charlotte last chase, and he still has won more than anyone the last two years. He's still the best in the business. Interesting that you became a fan towards the end of his career.



Keselowski had a Truex like performance tgis race, lead over 300 laps. Jimmie ran 3-6 all race. Beat Brad, period
 
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Acs said:
Different drivers have their strengths and weaknesses, even though from the couch it looks like they are all turning left about the same way:

Jimmie: He can drive the loosest race car of probably everyone in the field. That let's him and Chad do some crazy fast things with setups.

Kyle Larson: Known for being able to run the high line around the racetrack, and run it fast. Often he's the only driver willing to go up there. Hits the wall a bunch because of it.

Kyle Busch: Hate to admit it, but Kyle Busch is the best re-starter in the field and I don't think it's close. Every time he's on the front row, look out. It doesn't matter if he's the control car or not.

Truex Jr.: I don't think he's anything special as a driver, but his CC Cole Pearn is a genius at building bad fast cars. Unfortunately, they aren't the most reliable of machines.

Brad K: The best restrictor plate racer in the field right now. Doesn't leave things to chance, takes control of a race and has numerous techniques to get up front. The #2 team pit crew is crap right now though.

Kevin Harvick: Complete bottom-feeder (aka he runs the low line around the track almost exclusively). Very good at saving tires on a long run. If he's out front he's almost uncatchable. Has a tendency to choke away wins though.

Ryan Newman: Considered the hardest driver to pass on the race-track. He plays defense better than anyone, and he's usually on defense a lot.

These are just some of the characteristic's I've been able to pick up on watching for a year and a half. Feel free to add other drivers if you can think of them.
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If Jimmie isn't the best restarter, he is absolutely the most clutch. How many wins has he stollen on restarts? Way more than KB.

KB is talented, and can maximize a short run, but he is absolutely beatable when he is ON. Jimmie, Tony Stewart and Jeff Gordon are the three best talents of the last 20 years. Unbeatable when they have the car
 
Bowtie3 said:
I think if you look at Joey Logano and the 20 car you'd see the answer to this question. Quite simply, there isn't one. Joey didn't set the world on fire in the 20 but is a perineal title contender in the 22. The 20 team also became an instant contender after he left.
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Yes and Zippy was gone also who I blame for the lack of success for Joey. As soon as Joey dropped to the xfinity cars with a different CC he was out running Kyle and Denny in those cars.
 
Anyone that contemplates this question is obviously new to the sport and likely is contributing to it's demise. JMO.
 
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