Is it time for HMS to panic?

CalTenn said:
Lot of truth in this, like you I listen each week. Beginning the race the car was junk and remained that way until the last stop, whatever Alan did made the car a top 5 car, having taken the lucky dog he started at the rear and still finished 9th passing 7 lead lap cars and running times equal with Bowyer.
Alan is better than Darian IMO, I do not envy Byrons position and thankful Chase has Alan.
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I listened to Nate Ryan's interview with Gordon and he was very complimentary of Gustafson. Said he builds some amazing race cars. That's saying a lot considering how poorly their last year together went for 90% of the season. They didn't get along much of that year. The guy has a proven track record with multiple drivers.
 
The problem isn't the crew chiefs or making a change there and mixing it up. That is a problem you address if you have one or more cars running well and not others. Is it time for HMS to panic, YESSS!! The last half of last season and so far this season the cars are slow. I know this every week when I look at the practice sheets. When jimmie comes off the truck and is 22nd in practice there is a huge problem. Its not going to get corrected by tuning the car at the track. Chase does seem to be a little different sometimes he is decent when the rest of the HMS cars are just flat out slow. For jimmie to be that bad at martinsville to me say they have problems in multiple areas. MOTOR isn't one of them. We have seen larson be fast with HMS engines. plus. at martinsville if triad or promotor built Clint bowyers martinsville engine he still would have won. The engine isn't going to make hardly any difference, especially on a short track.

The interesting thing for me is Truex. Truex didn't suddenly become this amazing jimmie johnson driver overnight. That team has something very special. The fact that they have kept it this long is amazing. He may have been able to lap the field at california, there were times when truex was 3/4 of a second faster than anyone else.

as for gustafson not being a good crew cheif for Jeff gordon. don't you think if jeff wanted to change the CC rick would do it the next day. Why haven't you considered that maybe Jeff wasn't the driver he was when he was younger and that maybe he knew that?
 
I never said he wasn't a good CC for Jeff, I said they had a rough final year together and had some spats which were made public. The rules package that year and Jeff's driving style just didn't mesh and it snowballed. They couldn't hit on setups and frustration built. Hell in 2014 they likely would've won the whole thing if not for Texas or Newman using Larson as a backboard at Phoenix. They were good together, they just weren't good together in 2015.
 
I figure that top organizations might have trouble hanging on to personnel. Teams have been known to lure team members away from a top team. I wonder how many Hendrick personnel have moved to different teams. Also, you can't dominate NASCAR for ever, there is always one-upmanship.
 
Zerkfitting said:
I figure that top organizations might have trouble hanging on to personnel. Teams have been known to lure team members away from a top team. I wonder how many Hendrick personnel have moved to different teams. Also, you can't dominate NASCAR for ever, there is always one-upmanship.
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Duchardt left for CGR.
 
It's just a fact that when Hendrick had struggling cars in 2010, they switched a lot of things around for 2011. This organization has not been the same since 2015 (or 2016 if you want to count Johnson's run at Homestead).
 
Organizations like HMS don't "panic". They will systematically work through their issues and make their way back to the front. The clickbait articles about winless streaks and slumps and "panic" are all par for the course when it comes to sports.
 
I not worried, New car with two new drivers. These things take time, onto Texas.
 
They switched their way of operating with shops, are running a new car, have two drivers in a totally new environment and their fastest driver on track is 22 years old. Compare that to the experience level of rival teams.

Plus the notes and feedback from drivers in their early 20s don't come close to what they had with Kahne, Earnhardt and Gordon. They have time to grow, it's not like their windows are closing any time soon.
 
LJ7201 said:
They switched their way of operating with shops, are running a new car, have two drivers in a totally new environment and their fastest driver on track is 22 years old. Compare that to the experience level of rival teams.

Plus the notes and feedback from drivers in their early 20s don't come close to what they had with Kahne, Earnhardt and Gordon. They have time to grow, it's not like their windows are closing any time soon.
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this is why I think bringing on kenseth would have been a wise idea, they could have left byron in the NXS car another year and brought on a veteren that could still win.
 
It isn't HMS, it's pretty much the car. Larson this year has only 2 top 5's in 6 races. Last year in 6 races he had two poles, a win, and 4 top 5's
 
You change the car........................... you change everything and that is what Nascar does wrong.
They keep changing things so the richest can afford to finance the solutions whereas the poor teams have to wait until they can find the information. Leave things alone for 5 yrs and eventually things will even out.
 
Team Penske said:
You change the car........................... you change everything and that is what Nascar does wrong.
They keep changing things so the richest can afford to finance the solutions whereas the poor teams have to wait until they can find the information. Leave things alone for 5 yrs and eventually things will even out.
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It was Chevrolet that changed the car
 
Yogisd1 said:
I don't think Jimmy likes the lower downforce cars. I think when they switched is about the same time he started to struggle. Maybe not, but I think so.
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I've wondered about that too. Jimmie likes a loose car, but I would think there is quite a difference between a loose high downforce car and a loose low downforce car. I also think that whether they admit it not, as drivers age, they like that car to be a little more snug. Jeff Gordon went from smoking all four tires in a corner to yelling about a car that was the least bit loose over his 20+ year career.
FLRacingFan said:
Duchardt left for CGR.
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A lot of HMS people ended up over at Stewart Haas.
Snappy D said:
I not worried, New car with two new drivers. These things take time, onto Texas.
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On the bright side, I think given what he had to work with, Bowman has been more than up to the task. I'm not pleased with the way the season is going, but I think Alex has been making the most out what he has. I think Byron is still trying to get his legs under him, but there again, not THAT bad considering where the team as a whole has been.
 
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StandOnIt said:
It was Chevrolet that changed the car
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GM just changed the body style because Toyota had also. However what I was referring to was the mechanical car. That includes changes to ride height as well. Teams just find a balance and nascar changes the rules again. No big deal for top teams but the little guy doesn't have the financial resources to keep starting over.
 
Formerjackman said:
No, GM changed the car because the old car (SS) was no longer being manufactured.
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The old rules of number of sales is no longer in effect. How many years could they have kept the car on track? The car was approved by Nascar and they could have kept running it for as many years as needed. GM still owns the Impala SS Brand. The same with the Ford. The showroom car is not what they race, the teams still race he approved version.
 
Team Penske said:
The old rules of number of sales is no longer in effect. How many years could they have kept the car on track? The car was approved by Nascar and they could have kept running it for as many years as needed. GM still owns the Impala SS Brand. The same with the Ford. The showroom car is not what they race, the teams still race he approved version.
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The rules state that the cars have to be a current production car, the rules at one time allowed teams to run a out of production body for I think it was three years, I am very unsure what the the current rule states , I think it was changed though.

GM owns a lot of model names, what is your point about the Impala :laugh:? , it has not been in the Cup Series since the conclusion of 2012
 
Team Penske said:
GM just changed the body style because Toyota had also. However what I was referring to was the mechanical car. That includes changes to ride height as well. Teams just find a balance and nascar changes the rules again. No big deal for top teams but the little guy doesn't have the financial resources to keep starting over.
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GM changed the car like has been said because they don't produce the SS. They also had the oldest car that hasn't been changed in the series. Now Ford is the oldest FWIW. I don't know what rules you are referring to. This is the second year the ride height and spoiler height has been in place, and they were used the year before that on select races. Nascar closed even more loop holes this year with a common standard splitter, radiator, and oil cooler and they eliminated some fans. They strengthened the foot well on the safety side. Nothing that would confuse the little guy.
 
hidesert cowboy said:
this is why I think bringing on kenseth would have been a wise idea, they could have left byron in the NXS car another year and brought on a veteren that could still win.
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I still think they made a pretty bad mistake bringing up Byron this quick. Yeah he was great last year but many Xfinity champs stuck around for Title #2.
 
jws926 said:
The rules state that the cars have to be a current production car, the rules at one time allowed teams to run a out of production body for I think it was three years, I am very unsure what the the current rule states , I think it was changed though.

GM owns a lot of model names, what is your point about the Impala :laugh:? , it has not been in the Cup Series since the conclusion of 2012
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Never mind that GM is not going to waste their marketing dollars promoting a car they no longer make, especially when they have other cars that CAN be promoted. The Impala didn't get the nod because sales of that model have been poor, like pretty much all four door sedans right now, and because it currently has no performance model to push. The SS Impala hasn't existed for some time.
 
AuzGrams said:
I still think they made a pretty bad mistake bringing up Byron this quick. Yeah he was great last year but many Xfinity champs stuck around for Title #2.
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Time will tell, but so far, he isn't tearing up equipment, he has completed 99% of the laps run, is finishing as well or better than he starts, and he is 20th in points. Considering how mediocre HMS has been, I think that is pretty good for a kid that age. Byron doesn't concern me at all. The TEAM concerns me.
 
AuzGrams said:
I still think they made a pretty bad mistake bringing up Byron this quick. Yeah he was great last year but many Xfinity champs stuck around for Title #2.
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Waiting for the Joey Logano effect.

Give it a couple of seasons.
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Waiting for the Joey Logano effect.

Give it a couple of seasons.
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Truthfully, it's hard to see that car being much further up the standings if Kasey was still driving it. After a promising start, by race 8 last year, Kahne was already down to 17th in points and sliding. Some other people have ragged on Darian Grubb too, so I did a little research. In the six seasons in which Grubb was the crew chief for a car for the WHOLE season (and one where Hamlin only did 29 races ) only once was that car out of the top 7 in points, and that was Casey Mears in 2007 (17th). In EVERY ONE of those seven seasons, the car won at least one race. How many active crew chiefs can match that?
 
hidesert cowboy said:
this is why I think bringing on kenseth would have been a wise idea, they could have left byron in the NXS car another year and brought on a veteren that could still win.
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Easier said than done, Byron made more sense financially
 
Formerjackman said:
Never mind that GM is not going to waste their marketing dollars promoting a car they no longer make, especially when they have other cars that CAN be promoted. The Impala didn't get the nod because sales of that model have been poor, like pretty much all four door sedans right now, and because it currently has no performance model to push. The SS Impala hasn't existed for some time.
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Right, 1996 was the last year for the Impala SS.
 
jws926 said:
Right, 1996 was the last year for the Impala SS.
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'96 was the last year for the REAL Impala SS, but technically they had this a decade later.....

112630291.jpg
 
2 Sweet said:
'96 was the last year for the REAL Impala SS, but technically they had this a decade later.....
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That is why if you noticed, I said for the "Impala SS" , not Impala;), they are still making it.
 
2 Sweet said:
But don't get it twisted....the SS they ran the past several years was NOT an Impala.....

2016-Chevrolet-SS-017_0.jpg
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That is a Holden Commodore VF re-badged as a SS, not sure why anyone could think that is an Impala.
 
jws926 said:
That is why if you noticed, I said for the "Impala SS" , not Impala;), they are still making it.
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Yes, and the last Impala SS was made in 2009.

jws926 said:
That is a Holden Commodore VF re-badged as a SS, not sure why anyone could think that is an Impala.
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Lots of folks do, for whatever reason. I think they see Chevrolet SS and assume that SS is the trim level, and not the name of the model
 
It doesn't help that Chevy never actually tried to promote and sell the SS model. There are some pretty sharp car guys out there that never even knew this car existed until it was a couple of years old or when it was about to go out of production. If you don't follow NASCAR, the odds are pretty good you didn't know about it. On at least two occasions, I saw race fans at Chevy displays finally make the connection that this was actually a real V8 rear wheel drive sedan production car , and not some badged up front driver, or a concept car.
 
Formerjackman said:
It doesn't help that Chevy never actually tried to promote and sell the SS model. There are some pretty sharp car guys out there that never even knew this car existed until it was a couple of years old or when it was about to go out of production. If you don't follow NASCAR, the odds are pretty good you didn't know about it. On at least two occasions, I saw race fans at Chevy displays finally make the connection that this was actually a real V8 rear wheel drive sedan production car , and not some badged up front driver, or a concept car.
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I followed the SS from the beginning, I've only actually seen 1 up close and personal, a buddy at work had one. I honestly don't think Chevy ever intended this car to be successful. It's a shame because it's a pretty awesome car.
 
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