Is it time for HMS to panic?

StandOnIt said:
got to do something different IMO. Can't tell unless you make a change. I could say they have been going downhill since Chad got married. Doesn't really matter, they don't get along IMO.
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I agree. Aren't we at a point where regardless whether or not there is still gas left in the tank, a change for change's sake is necessary?
 
Revman said:
I agree. Aren't we at a point where regardless whether or not there is still gas left in the tank, a change for change's sake is necessary?
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exactly IMO. At this point IMO I would change it up, it happens all the time. JJ and Chad are the exception.
 
Revman said:
I agree. Aren't we at a point where regardless whether or not there is still gas left in the tank, a change for change's sake is necessary?
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I’d like to see Chad work with one of the younger guys. Chad likes telling his driver what to do...somebody like Byron may be more keen on that and actually absorb advice. Telling JJ how to drive the car at this point is like telling Michael Phelps how to swim.
 
DSquad48 said:
Listening to Chad during these races is weird. He used to come up with master plans for adjustments. Now he just tells Jimmie to play with the trackbar during runs and to run faster.

Tonight he asked Jimmie what kind of wedge adjustment he wanted under caution. Jimbo said “uhh, you’ve never asked me that before.”
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After 17 seasons together, burnout is apparently setting in.
 
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Hawaii808 said:
Damn, that kinda stuff smacks of “short timers disease”. But didn’t Chad sign a contract extension?
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and maybe he plans to make that his last CC contract. It could be he expected to rise higher in the organization and it didn't materialize because they wanted championship #8 for JJ.
With the #48 running the way it is maybe he will get taken off the car.
Maybe some other team will hire him for management.
 
It’s time
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They have 3 cars in the top 16 in points at the moment. The 48 is 12th, the 88 is 14th, and the 9 is 15th in points. Not a great season for HMS but not a dumpster fire either. Chevy needs to relay what's going on with the 42 to all the teams. The 42 is running Hendrick Motorsports' engines. To drive from 38th to the front makes it apparent that it isn't a power issue. HMS is missing something in the aero/body of their vehicles.
 
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Yeah they're not good, at all, way far behind the Toyota timeline last year and Larson is kicking them up and down the track with the same body and engine.
 
Did I hear correctly when the chuckle fest guys in the booth said JJ has yet to lead a lap this year? If so they have a real problem.
 
I can see Chad moving to a higher position in Hendrick, and not being on the road for all 40 weeks anymore.

I think we're learning just how valuable Ron Malec was to team 48. Not to take anything away from Chad of course, being the best CC or close to it for 15 years is nothing short of legendary.
 
I WISH the biggest problem HMS had was Chad and Jimmie. I AM hitting the panic button, not just because they aren't very good, but because I'm not seeing ANY real improvement at all. They take slow cars and compound them with mental errors and mistakes. The cars seem to all go about the same speed whether it's a 20 year old rookie or a seven time champion driving them, so it would seem they are up against a wall and at this time that's ALL the cars can give the drivers. Until they fix THAT, playing musical crew chiefs won't help a thing.
 
FLRacingFan said:
Yeah they're not good, at all, way far behind the Toyota timeline last year and Larson is kicking them up and down the track with the same body and engine.
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I agree to an extent about the comparison to Toyota. I felt last year that there was a confidence in TRD even though there weren't any tangible results. There wasn't any panic. Some reporters were going off, but everything coming from TRD was calm. I think they knew what was coming, and I don't think they minded for a second. After 2016, peaking at the right time was the priority. Chevy works differently. Jim Campbell has been tight lipped. I think that Hendrick is as close to TRD as Chevy gets, and we aren't hearing anything from them. IMO in order for Chevy to get their **** together, Hendrick really has to open this thing up and create that Chevy Team thing like Toyota and Ford. This type of a culture shift IMO would be more significant than Toyota's ability to change quickly given their Toyota Way processes. I can't see that happening this year if this thing is as dire as some suggest. The 42? I'm not sure there is magic there. Having that team share its "secrets" would be like having Kyle Busch explain why he is 2-3 tenths better than any other Toyota. Sometimes, it truly is down to the driver.

As curious as I am about where all of the parity people went after last year's TRD dominance, I am wondering where all of the Message Board Engineers went who predicted Chevy dominance because there were "similarities" between the Camaro and Camry noses.
 
Formerjackman said:
I WISH the biggest problem HMS had was Chad and Jimmie. I AM hitting the panic button, not just because they aren't very good, but because I'm not seeing ANY real improvement at all. They take slow cars and compound them with mental errors and mistakes. The cars seem to all go about the same speed whether it's a 20 year old rookie or a seven time champion driving them, so it would seem they are up against a wall and at this time that's ALL the cars can give the drivers. Until they fix THAT, playing musical crew chiefs won't help a thing.
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This. I’m about to hit the panic button complete with the sirens. I stressed patience a weeks ago but there have been ZERO signs of improvement from HMS. It’s crazy to me that Chevy has rolled out this new body and they as a whole, are this far behind, it really looks like they didn’t prepare at all for this. Only Larson has run well, HMS and RCR have been out to lunch.
 
I hear several comments about chad being the problem with the 48, every week I look at the practice sheets and when they roll off the truck in the 20's in speed. your simply not going to be able to adjust the car good enough to be competitive at the race track. This is stuff they are behind on in the race shop. this is preparation at the shop, its not crappy CC'ing and bad adjustments during the race or during practice. We have seen the cars fast at times during practice. I don't know if running in traffic could be the problem or not. the practice sheet is tuff to tell what teams have without having more knowledge about what cars had what, like how old of tires they were on etc. If the lap was made early or late on their tires. I also look at 10 lap averages. every week I keep looking for something that shows speed from the HMS cars. If anything I feel like they are actually worse than last year. When I look up and see chris buscher faster than the HMS cars in practice there is a huge problem.

someone also mentioned all the HMS cars running about the same speed. That is another thing I have noticed too. I guess when the cars suck all the same they run the same crappy speed. HMS should be one of the best funded teams in the garage. In a world of cut backs everywhere I think they are not running like they are supposed to.
 
hidesert cowboy said:
I hear several comments about chad being the problem with the 48, every week I look at the practice sheets and when they roll off the truck in the 20's in speed. your simply not going to be able to adjust the car good enough to be competitive at the race track. This is stuff they are behind on in the race shop. this is preparation at the shop, its not crappy CC'ing and bad adjustments during the race or during practice. We have seen the cars fast at times during practice. I don't know if running in traffic could be the problem or not. the practice sheet is tuff to tell what teams have without having more knowledge about what cars had what, like how old of tires they were on etc. If the lap was made early or late on their tires. I also look at 10 lap averages. every week I keep looking for something that shows speed from the HMS cars. If anything I feel like they are actually worse than last year. When I look up and see chris buscher faster than the HMS cars in practice there is a huge problem.

someone also mentioned all the HMS cars running about the same speed. That is another thing I have noticed too. I guess when the cars suck all the same they run the same crappy speed. HMS should be one of the best funded teams in the garage. In a world of cut backs everywhere I think they are not running like they are supposed to.
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I agree with you that the HMS cars are definitely not performing like they should be and it is kind of frustrating to me because I really want to see Bowman get a win in his first year in a good car but even though he has driven pretty good he hasn't had a good car. I really don't understand why Larson's Chevy can be so competitive but HMS Chevys are not with the budget and all of the brain power they have.
 
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Mopardh9 said:
I'd say it's time to panic when JJ is 2 laps back. ...not good.
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Yes, but that was self inflicted. The 48 car was not real good, but it wasn't two laps down bad. That all stemmed from the botched pit stop. Also, from the kid can't catch a break department: Despite not running all that good all night, Elliott stayed out on used tires late and would probably have had a top five finish.... UNTIL the last caution came out, sinking his night. The only thing worse than running bad is being bad AND unlucky.
 
Formerjackman said:
Yes, but that was self inflicted. The 48 car was not real good, but it wasn't two laps down bad. That all stemmed from the botched pit stop. Also, from the kid can't catch a break department: Despite not running all that good all night, Elliott stayed out on used tires late and would probably have had a top five finish.... UNTIL the last caution came out, sinking his night. The only thing worse than running bad is being bad AND unlucky.
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JJ has not lead one lap this year, time to panic.
 
Formerjackman said:
I WISH the biggest problem HMS had was Chad and Jimmie. I AM hitting the panic button, not just because they aren't very good, but because I'm not seeing ANY real improvement at all. They take slow cars and compound them with mental errors and mistakes. The cars seem to all go about the same speed whether it's a 20 year old rookie or a seven time champion driving them, so it would seem they are up against a wall and at this time that's ALL the cars can give the drivers. Until they fix THAT, playing musical crew chiefs won't help a thing.
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Fresh blood can overcome complaisance. People get in a rut of doing the same thing all the time and expect the results to change. Rick has been very loyal to his people but you always need turn over to keep people challenging each other.
 
This problem goes way deeper than crew chief burnout. This is an engineering issue, and it didn't just start this year or even last year. I have nothing to base this on, but I think it started with the number of people that moved over to help Stewart Haas. People forget what a dumpster fire that place was before Tony got there, and while HMS had been helping them all along, it sure seemed like a LOT of HMS people ended up on the SHR payroll after Tony arrived. I think a bunch of HMS talent found it's way over to JRM too. I think some of what you are seeing on the driver/crew chief side is just frustration born of knowing you are probably beaten before you even unload the race car.
 
Johnson said the problem isn't aero/body so the only thing it can be is mechanical grip. Something to do with the suspension. Their engines are strong.
 
Yes, officially time to hit the button. It’s no longer the hyperbole of a passionate fan. I was a Bill Elliott then Jeff Burton fan. I was all but done with NASCAR when Chase came along and gave me someone I could pull for. This is the first time since his Rookie debut in Nationwide/Xfinity that I’ve gone into each race as hopeless as a fan as the McDonald’s years for Bill or the RCR Caterpillar years for Burton...
 
StandOnIt said:
got to do something different IMO. Can't tell unless you make a change. I could say they have been going downhill since Chad got married. Doesn't really matter, they don't get along IMO.
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It worked for Valentino Rossi, who has more wins and championships than Jimmie Johnson *and* more fans and money than Dale Jr. In 2014, at age 35 and thought to be in the twilight of his career, Rossi parted ways with Jeremy Burgess, his legendary MotoGP crew chief who had been with Rossi from his MotoGP debut in 2000. Five years later and Rossi is still competing at a high level, and recently signed an extension through 2020 (age 41). So there is precedent for a fresh environment producing amazing results.
 
Eh they've been pretty embarrassing so far as an organization in my opinion.

The 9 and 48 should have the expectations of being in the top 5 or at minimum top 10 in points at the start of the season, I think Bowman getting into the playoffs is the simple goal for the 88, and I'm not sure what Byron's expectations have been.
 
Charlie Spencer said:
@Thegeneral23 , you out there? I may be ready to buy what you're selling.
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Haha I’m here buddy , just scored HOT PASSES TO 600 :)
DSquad48 said:
His argument is that JJ is a trash driver, not that HMS is in a slump.
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Not true y’all took it the wrong way . I love sports I watch football baseball and basketball sorcery durnjng Olympics and when someone isn’t winning in other sports they don’t get phrase still, all I was saying is that his crew chief had a lot to do with it and he isn’t winning now that’s all I was saying .. if my driving wasn’t winning (Kyle Busch ) I would hope they wasn’t talking bout his butt every week until he got his SH*T together! It’s over for jimmy why is it so hard to understand he had his run, it ends for superstars at some point why can’t it be over for him?
 
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Thegeneral23 said:
Haha I’m here buddy , just scored HOT PASSES TO 600 :)

Not true y’all took it the wrong way . I love sports I watch football baseball and basketball sorcery durnjng Olympics and when someone isn’t winning in other sports they don’t get phrase still, all I was saying is that his crew chief had a lot to do with it and he isn’t winning now that’s all I was saying .. if my driving wasn’t winning (Kyle Busch ) I would hope they wasn’t talking bout his butt every week until he got his SH*T together! It’s over for jimmy why is it so hard to understand he had his run, it ends for superstars at some point why can’t it be over for him?
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OVER???!!! .Just funnin with you. I remember Earnhardt not winning in 96 I think. Folks started to write him off. He won again in 97, won Daytona in 98, and I seem to recall he won a race in 2000, ain't looking it up. My point is he was still very competitive into his late forties. I think the 48s' problem has a whole lot more to do with the car, than the driver. I wouldn't write JJ off just yet. Another title?, long shot, A few more wins?, I wouldn't bet against him. Time will tell.
 
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