Is it time for HMS to panic?

Taco said:
Its very clear that NASCAR gave ford the advantage with the splitter change.
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I don't know that NASCAR "gave" them anything, but it sure does seem that the current package played right into their hands. For all of the talk that the new Camaro was submitted with the new rules package figured in, it sure doesn't look like it. I think there is a WHOLE lot of people from Chevy on down to the teams that have some explaining to do. Even in my worst case scenario for this season, I never envisioned the utter lack of competitiveness I have seen this year. I find Hendrick's performance this year not just disappointing, but EMBARASSING.
 
Formerjackman said:
I don't know that NASCAR "gave" them anything, but it sure does seem that the current package played right into their hands. For all of the talk that the new Camaro was submitted with the new rules package figured in, it sure doesn't look like it. I think there is a WHOLE lot of people from Chevy on down to the teams that have some explaining to do. Even in my worst case scenario for this season, I never envisioned the utter lack of competitiveness I have seen this year. I find Hendrick's performance this year not just disappointing, but EMBARASSING.
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Ford and Toyota have maximized on the chassis setup while Chevy is still mired in 2016 with no answers.

This is not a “wait until they figure out the new body” situation with downforce. Jimmie Johnson has already said as much
 
ChexOrWrex said:
Ford and Toyota have maximized on the chassis setup while Chevy is still mired in 2016 with no answers.

This is not a “wait until they figure out the new body” situation with downforce. Jimmie Johnson has already said as much
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The problem is, they weren't setting the world on fire in 2016 either (or 2015).
 
I'm done playing the guessing game lol. I thought by May they would have things in order, and while they have definitely made progress, they are still a long way away from winning. Chase will probably see year 3 end without a win unless it comes at Daytona or Talladega - really looking forward to that :rolleyes:

This was another reason I was amazed that so many people were pegging Bowman and Byron to win races this year. There already aren't many wins to go around the series with the likes of the 4,18, and 78 winning everything, and then you add in the Chevy struggles and it becomes a joke to even consider that they might win.
 
Formerjackman said:
I don't know that NASCAR "gave" them anything, but it sure does seem that the current package played right into their hands. For all of the talk that the new Camaro was submitted with the new rules package figured in, it sure doesn't look like it. I think there is a WHOLE lot of people from Chevy on down to the teams that have some explaining to do. Even in my worst case scenario for this season, I never envisioned the utter lack of competitiveness I have seen this year. I find Hendrick's performance this year not just disappointing, but EMBARASSING.
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Did NASCAR not give them the spec for the splitter?
 
Taco said:
Did NASCAR not give them the spec for the splitter?
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"The recent trend of reducing vehicle downforce will continue, but without altering spoiler heights. The aerodynamic shifts will be achieved through use of a common splitter and radiator oil cooler, which Stefanyshyn says will drop downforce by approximately 225 pounds (185 in the front, 40 rear) to a level of 1,650 pounds."

https://www.nascar.com/news-media/2018/02/01/2018-nascar-rules-updates/

Common ... as in all 3 manufacturers use the same one. Any advantage, real or imagined, is not down to the splitter but rather, as is always the case, to the combination of aerodynamic and mechanical arrangements in use by the teams.
 
That rule was made for a reason..they didn't say who, but that some teams were utilizing some really expensive radiators and oil coolers. I would imagine in concert with the splitter to create more down force.
 
aunty dive said:
"The recent trend of reducing vehicle downforce will continue, but without altering spoiler heights. The aerodynamic shifts will be achieved through use of a common splitter and radiator oil cooler, which Stefanyshyn says will drop downforce by approximately 225 pounds (185 in the front, 40 rear) to a level of 1,650 pounds."

https://www.nascar.com/news-media/2018/02/01/2018-nascar-rules-updates/

Common ... as in all 3 manufacturers use the same one. Any advantage, real or imagined, is not down to the splitter but rather, as is always the case, to the combination of aerodynamic and mechanical arrangements in use by the teams.
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Quit that aunty...that is too much common sense! You need more hyperbole...

The Chevy's down force is the same as the yote's and the Ford's, just applied in a slightly different location when the vehicle is moving. Remember that the NASCAR aero is done in a wind tunnel with a static vehicle. It does not take into account the momentum of the vehicle. In a static posture, the lbs per square inch measured at the median contact of the front tires might be the same across the board for all manufacturers, but under kinetic conditions the aero could possibly cause a leverage affect over the fulcrum of the median center of the tires. Hence the possible reason for the splitter bottoming out on the Chevy's. Doesn't take much.

Do not like Chevy's anyway...
 
OldTimer said:
Quit that aunty...that is too much common sense! You need more hyperbole...

The Chevy's down force is the same as the yote's and the Ford's, just applied in a slightly different location when the vehicle is moving. Remember that the NASCAR aero is done in a wind tunnel with a static vehicle. It does not take into account the momentum of the vehicle. In a static posture, the lbs per square inch measured at the median contact of the front tires might be the same across the board for all manufacturers, but under kinetic conditions the aero could possibly cause a leverage affect over the fulcrum of the median center of the tires. Hence the possible reason for the splitter bottoming out on the Chevy's. Doesn't take much.

Do not like Chevy's anyway...
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it also doesn't account for truck arms that swing and allow the right rear to skew out more, it doesn't account for body panels and plexi glass to cave in at strategic points at speed. the 78 car doesn't hold the advantage anymore. you can tell they have an advantage over some of the other toyotas, but not over the 4 car and probably the 14 car. The 78 car had a very very special advantage for a long time. It appears the 4 car knows what they were doing and combined with what they were already doing is now the 78 car of last year. HMS doesn't have anything right now they are flat out behind and might as well be roush right now. its enough behind that I don't know if they can salvage the season. Those saying wait till august tell you start to panic. are you kidding me?!?!? the chase starts at the end of august. we have kansas and charlotte coming up. if they don't figure out something after those YES its time to panic. I contend it already is. Lowes isn't around for next year. sponsorship decisions for next year are being made right now. having slow cars is a big problem for that.
 
Larson's crew was the gift that kept on giving, put him two laps down. Top 10 was a victory at that track IMO.
 
You have the driver, the car, the CC/driver and the pit crew. Right now I think more teams are struggling with pit crews. I think you will see changes from ex-line backers to agile thinkers be the new pit crews.
 
StandOnIt said:
Oh there was a race all right, SHR kicked some butt.
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One SHR car is absolutely lights out. The others are on par with the TRD Toyotas. Do you think this is in the SHR chassis? They started building their own when they went Ford, right?
Taco said:
Its very clear that NASCAR gave ford the advantage with the splitter change.
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Made Kevin smile.
 
Revman said:
They started building their own when they went Ford, right?
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Actually they started before. Going to Ford meant they had to change the front clips
to accommodate the ford engine which requires a deeper well. Petty and Penski had the same problems.
 
Team Penske said:
Actually they started before. Going to Ford meant they had to change the front clips
to accommodate the ford engine which requires a deeper well. Petty and Penski had the same problems.
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Interesting.
 
NOW it’s time. Godawful showing tonight was this season in a nutshell.
 
aunty dive said:
"The recent trend of reducing vehicle downforce will continue, but without altering spoiler heights. The aerodynamic shifts will be achieved through use of a common splitter and radiator oil cooler, which Stefanyshyn says will drop downforce by approximately 225 pounds (185 in the front, 40 rear) to a level of 1,650 pounds."

https://www.nascar.com/news-media/2018/02/01/2018-nascar-rules-updates/

Common ... as in all 3 manufacturers use the same one. Any advantage, real or imagined, is not down to the splitter but rather, as is always the case, to the combination of aerodynamic and mechanical arrangements in use by the teams.
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Why reduce downforce? That’s what made the cars drive well and turn before they made them common template cars. They could actually run into the corner at full speed and the car would stick. Raise the spoiler. Get rid of the deck lid lexan abomination. Give them rear grip to allow passing in the turns. God what a mess they have made of actual racing. I hope they sell it to someone who knows how to make the raving good again. Stop trying to make everything equal. It makes for crappy racing and lack of fans.
 
Now is the time for Jimmie to get with planning his career change to highly sponsored age group champion semi-pro triathlete.

Or he could just hang out in Vail with Lance and drink tequila.
 
StandOnIt said:
He needs a different crew chief I would try first.
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Listening to Chad during these races is weird. He used to come up with master plans for adjustments. Now he just tells Jimmie to play with the trackbar during runs and to run faster.

Tonight he asked Jimmie what kind of wedge adjustment he wanted under caution. Jimbo said “uhh, you’ve never asked me that before.”
 
DSquad48 said:
Listening to Chad during these races is weird. He used to come up with master plans for adjustments. Now he just tells Jimmie to play with the trackbar during runs and to run faster.

Tonight he asked Jimmie what kind of wedge adjustment he wanted under caution. Jimbo said “uhh, you’ve never asked me that before.”
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Damn, that kinda stuff smacks of “short timers disease”. But didn’t Chad sign a contract extension?
 
DSquad48 said:
Listening to Chad during these races is weird. He used to come up with master plans for adjustments. Now he just tells Jimmie to play with the trackbar during runs and to run faster.

Tonight he asked Jimmie what kind of wedge adjustment he wanted under caution. Jimbo said “uhh, you’ve never asked me that before.”
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I think Chad is checking out. He’s been on the road a long time and has a family now. Might be time for a change.
 
spindoc said:
Why reduce downforce? That’s what made the cars drive well and turn before they made them common template cars. They could actually run into the corner at full speed and the car would stick. Raise the spoiler. Get rid of the deck lid lexan abomination. Give them rear grip to allow passing in the turns. God what a mess they have made of actual racing. I hope they sell it to someone who knows how to make the raving good again. Stop trying to make everything equal. It makes for crappy racing and lack of fans.
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They reduced downforce because that is what Carl Edwards wanted. Then, Carl wanted to be a farmer.
 
DSquad48 said:
Listening to Chad during these races is weird. He used to come up with master plans for adjustments. Now he just tells Jimmie to play with the trackbar during runs and to run faster.

Tonight he asked Jimmie what kind of wedge adjustment he wanted under caution. Jimbo said “uhh, you’ve never asked me that before.”
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they are toxic to each other IMO.
 
I can definitely see Chad moving on elsewhere. An announcement on Monday would not shock me.


Revman said:
They reduced downforce because that is what Carl Edwards wanted. Then, Carl wanted to be a farmer.
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LMFAO
 
StandOnIt said:
they are toxic to each other IMO.
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Interesting, do you think they’d have more respective success apart from each other?
DUN24 said:
I can definitely see Chad moving on elsewhere. An announcement on Monday would not shock me.
LMFAO
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He seems poised to take on a more senior/managerial role at Hendrick.

Personally, I’d love to see him as a TV analyst. His insight is fantastic and he’s extremely comfortable behind a camera. Love when he makes appearances on Racehub.
 
StandOnIt said:
they are toxic to each other IMO.
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There’s a bit of a Brady/Belichick dynamic with those two. They put up with each other when they were successful. Now that they’re struggling, the gloves are coming off.
 
StandOnIt said:
got to do something different IMO. Can't tell unless you make a change. I could say they have been going downhill since Chad got married. Doesn't really matter, they don't get along IMO.
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The marriage thing could definitely be a factor. I recall reading something back in the day that said chad showed up to HMS every day at 5AM or something ridiculous and just devoted 110% of his life to racing. Doubt it’s like that anymore.
 
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