Is it time for NASCAR to take a hard look at racing with race tires on all tracks?

Bigpaulie1979

Bigpaulie1979

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What are everyone’s thoughts? Personally some of the best races in others series happen in the rain, because it’s a great equalizer.

Truthfully I think a problem bigger then the rain tires, would be re-inventing their wiper and defrost setups the currently use.
 
I think a main worry for most has been handling G-Forces on ovals. It could be like 2008 Indy where the right fronts just can't take the abuse.

Of course, easiest solution would be to have a "rain flash" in the ECU, where that when the wiper is turned on, it cuts power output to 50%.
 
Another thought is, loose the jet driers, and at the point where the jet driers would be utilized, cars enter the track with rain tires
 
Bigpaulie1979 said:
Another thought is, loose the jet driers, and at the point where the jet driers would be utilized, cars enter the track with rain tires
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And as soon as the banking dries out, it begins to grind the rain tires to dust in a matter of laps. What you would end up is cars circling the track at VASTLY reduced speeds trying not to crash or destroy the tires, all the while chasing puddles to cool the tires off, which are mighty hard to find on an oval track, likely running around on the apron of the track. Why would ANYBODY want to watch that? I am a die hard dedicated sports car racing fan, and let me just say that while racing in the rain showcases some extraordinary talents, it's TOTALLY overrated as a spectator experience. Also realize that stock cars are much heavier, have narrower tires, and have less downforce than sports cars or Indy Cars, which all work against the effectiveness of rain tires. While it would be possible to have something that could be billed as a race, I don't think the majority of the fans would be happy with the results. A lot of the fans NOW are mad that the cars have less power and lower speeds. Add ten-fifteen seconds per lap at a place like Texas and see how happy people are.
 
Maybe they could get a couple hundred giant umbrellas (since they are portable and could be brought on tour with them) to attach to the top of each pole in the catch fence around the track(s).
 
Yeah I don’t think it’s honestly too possible on an oval. They would be having to drive so so so slow that it’s not worth it.


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hmmm298 said:
Maybe they could get a couple hundred giant umbrellas (since they are portable and could be brought on tour with them) to attach to the top of each pole in the catch fence around the track(s).
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Retractable dome
 
aunty dive said:
Indy cars run on wider tires and generate 3 X more downforce than a Cup car is capable of.

They don’t race in the rain on oval tracks either.
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Indy cars weigh less than half of what a cup car weighs and the hp to weight ratio isn't close either. The Xfinities and the Cup cars have already raced on an oval in the rain at the Roval. Oars would have been more useful for the Xfinitiy cars, and they did fine. The water problems came from the infield, not the oval part
 
It could work at Martinsville but that would be the only oval on the schedule with a realistic chance of running rain tires. New Hampshire would be in the gray area
 
Hell no.

It’s a cool novelty to race in the rain but not something you want to see every week.
 
Hells yes!

I am sure they could build a tire that could handle it...also @Magnetheads suggestion of ECU flash to reduce power.
 
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The biggest hurdles on ovals would be the weight if the cars and the banking. The drivers may have to slow down so much that the product would not be entertaining. Also that current rain tires will be eaten alive in yesterday’s damp conditions, a new tire would have to be developed for those conditions.

Although several drivers said they were really surprised at how much grip they had on the oval parts of the Charlotte Roval, so in my opinion the initial step has been taken to get some kind of entertainment during wet conditions.
 
Formerjackman said:
What you would end up is cars circling the track at VASTLY reduced speeds trying not to crash or destroy the tires, all the while chasing puddles to cool the tires off, which are mighty hard to find on an oval track, likely running around on the apron of the track. Why would ANYBODY want to watch that?
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Because it beats the Hell out of watching Mikey and Rut and last week’s race and not knowing what time and channel to set the DVR? Because it beats hanging out under the grandstands to find out you get to spend another night in the hotel and come back tomorrow?

Although it may not be better than a Bowyer interview.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if the new car is more suited for all weather racing than having a blinking red light at the back and a stick on wiper blade that flops around that the cars have now. Races need to go off on schedule if possible and not be delayed because of a light mist
 
I'll just remind everyone of this little gem: 2008 Brickyard 400. Due to circumstances beyond their direct control, NASCAR got a mess dumped in their lap, and tried to make the best of it by doing what they HAD to do in order to have a race that day and not postpone it. The event never seemed to recover from that fiasco, and to hear most fans talk, they have yet to forgive NASCAR and the Speedway for that day. To me, trying to run on a banked oval in the rain would be every bit of the **** show that that Brickyard 400 was, probably even worse.
 
DanicaFreak said:
Hells yes!

I am sure they could build a tire that could handle it...also @Magnetheads suggestion of ECU flash to reduce power.
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Well, Michelin has been building rain tires for decades, and I've seen them destroyed in 4-5 laps on a drying track at Daytona. If they could do better, I sure think they would have by now, especially in series where they had tire competition like the ALMS GT1 and GT2 had.
 
Bigpaulie1979 said:
What are everyone’s thoughts? Personally some of the best races in others series happen in the rain, because it’s a great equalizer.

Truthfully I think a problem bigger then the rain tires, would be re-inventing their wiper and defrost setups the currently use.
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I'm a fan of it.
I've been poo-pooed because of that opinion, but here is a fact...........
Racing in the rain on ovals is coming sooner rather than later to NASCAR's top 3 series.
 
Old 97 said:
I'm a fan of it.
I've been poo-pooed because of that opinion, but here is a fact...........
Racing in the rain on ovals is coming sooner rather than later to NASCAR's top 3 series.
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And the rest of them will be dragged kicking and screaming forward
 
Formerjackman said:
And as soon as the banking dries out, it begins to grind the rain tires to dust in a matter of laps. What you would end up is cars circling the track at VASTLY reduced speeds trying not to crash or destroy the tires, all the while chasing puddles to cool the tires off, which are mighty hard to find on an oval track, likely running around on the apron of the track. Why would ANYBODY want to watch that?
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You know they could like, switch back to dry tires right?
 
Formerjackman said:
I'll just remind everyone of this little gem: 2008 Brickyard 400. Due to circumstances beyond their direct control, NASCAR got a mess dumped in their lap, and tried to make the best of it by doing what they HAD to do in order to have a race that day and not postpone it. The event never seemed to recover from that fiasco, and to hear most fans talk, they have yet to forgive NASCAR and the Speedway for that day. To me, trying to run on a banked oval in the rain would be every bit of the **** show that that Brickyard 400 was, probably even worse.
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That seems like quite the assumption to make. Why not at least let them test the idea out, put some R&D into it and see what results are possible? To judge as if it's a complete failure without having even seen it seems awfully dramatic. And yes I know they tested it at Martinsville once but that was 25 years ago and tire materials and construction have come a long way since then just like everything else.
 
cheesepuffs said:
That seems like quite the assumption to make. Why not at least let them test the idea out, put some R&D into it and see what results are possible? To judge as if it's a complete failure without having even seen it seems awfully dramatic. And yes I know they tested it at Martinsville once but that was 25 years ago and tire materials and construction have come a long way since then just like everything else.
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There is a clip on YouTube where the Euro series raced cars that were very close to cup cars on a flat bull ring oval track in the rain. It was fine, entertaining, no problems.
 
It's snowing here in Chicago right now, I cant wait for the thread "Can NASCAR race in the snow and ice" giddy up lets do it.
 
Formerjackman said:
From what I understand, the cars will still be fat pigs. Getting them down to 2600-2800 pounds would be a good start.
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Never understood the need for the NASCAR cars too weigh so much, truthfully I would have thought they would lower the weight to increase safety
 
Bigpaulie1979 said:
Where you this pissy about NASCAR going fuel injection?
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No because it made sense and to be really frank, I dont work on cars enough to give a crap about fuel injection. Every so often this debate is brought up "Should NASCAR race ovals in the rain?" It hasnt happened yet why? Goodyear has been the supplier of tires for NASCAR since when? and how long have they been around? My question is why havent there been rain tires for ovals yet? To use your analogy of pissy...... this question of racing on ovals in the rain is pissing in the wind. I would hypothesize they wouldnt be able to go fast enough through the corners in the rain on the tires or else they wouldnt hold up and you would have to end up pitting every 10 laps or so. But again I am not an engineer and dont work on cars enough, but I have been watching racing my whole life and I really dont see any other series that race in the continental United States predominantly on ovals racing in the rain either. If Goodyear or another tire company find a way to make this happen then my hats off to them and I was really wrong. But I dont want to watch to what again I would bet on would be a parade through the rain just because people's attention spans now a days cant take a rain delay. I think NASCAR does a great job maneuvering through weather issues it faces each year and sometimes it's just out of their hands, like in this instance. If you want to R&D it go ahead, knock your socks off. But again..... why hasnt this been figured out in all the years NASCAR, Goodyear and actual racing have been around?
 
The web page that @Pat linked to shows less than half an inch of rain in the last 24 hours.

There's 'rain' and then there's 'drizzle'. At least experiment with rain tires with a little moisture on the track so they can hopefully finish the same day. That alone would reduce red flag duration, since they wouldn't need to completely dry the track. I don't think anyone expects them to run in a tropical storm deluge.

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They did at Charlotte. Showed it could be done on both a flat track and a banked oval. There wasn't any tire problems..that's B.S. they can run a slick into the ground as well as a rain tire..they are tires for christ sake.
 
I think you're forgetting that not man fans are going to want to sit in the stands to watch this. This year is the exception due to Covid, but ticket sales are still a lot of money
 
wi_racefan said:
I think you're forgetting that not man fans are going to want to sit in the stands to watch this. This year is the exception due to Covid, but ticket sales are still a lot of money
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well I've sat at Soldier Field at -7 degrees in December to watch NFL so if rain tires were figured out and it had happened to be at a track I was at or attending I think I'd go for sure. Of course thats just me and I see your point some might not want to sit in the rain for a 500 mile race, I however am not one of them. I probably would and would have a fun time too.
 
I just don’t think the product would be something most would enjoy. It sounds exciting and all, but after seeing the chaos that would take place one time, I don’t think many would want to see NASCAR make it commonplace.

As another person mentioned, martinsville might be the most realistic place to run in the rain, and the racing be decent
 
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